Solictor's will executor role - money for old rope?
Discussion
We lost our Dad a few weeks back - all sudden a painless, at least.
When going through his papers, and looking at the documentation for when his parents estate was split between him and his sister, I was struck by how high the solicitor fees were (7k in this case) for what I know wouldn't have been much work.
His own estate is the same, but the will has myself, my sister and a solicitor named as executors. He wasn't a complicated chap was my Dad - he had a 1 bedroom flat all paid off, some money in a current and savings account, a nice watch he bought with retirement windfall, and an MX5 ND he bought new. He kept all his paper work, and we've already got literally everything captured and documented in the estate. One afternoon's work.
That watch and the car were the only non-property physical assets of materiality . Otherwise no debt, a lot of standard direct debits for household bills, and a will that says split 50/50.
Estate is about 300k all in, so below the threshold - and I want about 70% of it to go to my sister (she needs it more than me). I just have a huge issue giving nearly 7k (1.75% + VAT) for what amounts to a few phone calls, and some form filling.
I've done probate before for my late step father-in-law, and it's not that hard. You just need to be disciplined and follow the steps carefully.
I've had a couple of attempts to suggest the solicitors either renounce their role (no chance!), or at least reduce their scope of services and be clear what we can do vs them, in exchange for a reduced fee. They just put a trainee in front of us who just gets flustered and repeats the same "it was your fathers wish that we be appointed"
Appointed yes, but nothing is signed on scope of services and fees - at all.
So question is -is there any precedent those in the know can advise of, of how I might reduce this ridiculous bill for not much work? Or any other advice on what I might do?
I mean - if their fees were 99.9% of the estate, and nothing was signed or written down saying it was 99.9% - then clearly it would be wrong. So principle established: so surely that means I don’t just need to accept their fees and services if they are over-specced for our needs?
When going through his papers, and looking at the documentation for when his parents estate was split between him and his sister, I was struck by how high the solicitor fees were (7k in this case) for what I know wouldn't have been much work.
His own estate is the same, but the will has myself, my sister and a solicitor named as executors. He wasn't a complicated chap was my Dad - he had a 1 bedroom flat all paid off, some money in a current and savings account, a nice watch he bought with retirement windfall, and an MX5 ND he bought new. He kept all his paper work, and we've already got literally everything captured and documented in the estate. One afternoon's work.
That watch and the car were the only non-property physical assets of materiality . Otherwise no debt, a lot of standard direct debits for household bills, and a will that says split 50/50.
Estate is about 300k all in, so below the threshold - and I want about 70% of it to go to my sister (she needs it more than me). I just have a huge issue giving nearly 7k (1.75% + VAT) for what amounts to a few phone calls, and some form filling.
I've done probate before for my late step father-in-law, and it's not that hard. You just need to be disciplined and follow the steps carefully.
I've had a couple of attempts to suggest the solicitors either renounce their role (no chance!), or at least reduce their scope of services and be clear what we can do vs them, in exchange for a reduced fee. They just put a trainee in front of us who just gets flustered and repeats the same "it was your fathers wish that we be appointed"
Appointed yes, but nothing is signed on scope of services and fees - at all.
So question is -is there any precedent those in the know can advise of, of how I might reduce this ridiculous bill for not much work? Or any other advice on what I might do?
I mean - if their fees were 99.9% of the estate, and nothing was signed or written down saying it was 99.9% - then clearly it would be wrong. So principle established: so surely that means I don’t just need to accept their fees and services if they are over-specced for our needs?
IANAL, but I’d say if beneficiaries are also executors you could just say jog on to the solicitor executor.
The deceased’s interests still have to be legally fulfilled by the executors in the interests of the beneficiaries, so they can’t argue the deceased’s wishes won’t be undertaken.
And you could argue the beneficiaries will be better off as no fees paid.
The deceased’s interests still have to be legally fulfilled by the executors in the interests of the beneficiaries, so they can’t argue the deceased’s wishes won’t be undertaken.
And you could argue the beneficiaries will be better off as no fees paid.
Mr Whippy said:
IANAL, but I’d say if beneficiaries are also executors you could just say jog on to the solicitor executor.
The deceased’s interests still have to be legally fulfilled by the executors in the interests of the beneficiaries, so they can’t argue the deceased’s wishes won’t be undertaken.
And you could argue the beneficiaries will be better off as no fees paid.
Yep - that has pretty much been my argument. They say "from their records" (not shared) "your father felt a professional executor should be appointed such is amount of work required". The deceased’s interests still have to be legally fulfilled by the executors in the interests of the beneficiaries, so they can’t argue the deceased’s wishes won’t be undertaken.
And you could argue the beneficiaries will be better off as no fees paid.
Really distressing for my sister in particular, as she was there in person with him when the will was signed, and no such conversation happened! But it's just "records of conversation", nothing written down or signed... only thing signed is their role as the third executor. Other two executors are the only beneficiaries, as you say.
I think the issue with the jog on approach is that you need all executors to agree/file for the grant of probate....
AIUI with three executors you’d need consensus or majority to do anything.
So you can basically say you’re not doing anything until they renounce their role pre-probate.
I have a solicitor on my will but only if the other executor doesn’t want to do it.
But that’s not made explicit. It does make you wonder about a solicitor basically barging into the role to collect fees because they’re named purely to enable the will to be actioned if the other family beneficiary executors can’t.
The irony of needing to take legal advice to deal with a solicitor acting in your interests (because their role is to undertake the will in your interests as beneficiaries)
Imo, those solicitors need the book throwing at them on the basis of it looking like they’re just after an easy gig at the beneficiaries expense.
So you can basically say you’re not doing anything until they renounce their role pre-probate.
I have a solicitor on my will but only if the other executor doesn’t want to do it.
But that’s not made explicit. It does make you wonder about a solicitor basically barging into the role to collect fees because they’re named purely to enable the will to be actioned if the other family beneficiary executors can’t.
The irony of needing to take legal advice to deal with a solicitor acting in your interests (because their role is to undertake the will in your interests as beneficiaries)
Imo, those solicitors need the book throwing at them on the basis of it looking like they’re just after an easy gig at the beneficiaries expense.
Mr Whippy said:
AIUI with three executors you’d need consensus or majority to do anything.
So you can basically say you’re not doing anything until they renounce their role pre-probate.
I have a solicitor on my will but only if the other executor doesn’t want to do it.
But that’s not made explicit. It does make you wonder about a solicitor basically barging into the role to collect fees because they’re named purely to enable the will to be actioned if the other family beneficiary executors can’t.
The irony of needing to take legal advice to deal with a solicitor acting in your interests (because their role is to undertake the will in your interests as beneficiaries)
Imo, those solicitors need the book throwing at them on the basis of it looking like they’re just after an easy gig at the beneficiaries expense.
I think that is indeed the worry - they are on will, but they're not needed. But so far they are going to hang on in there for their 7 grand even though the "complex tasks" needed as part of their role when pushed included "getting access to bank accounts to pay funeral fees". Pretty high end stuff, eh!So you can basically say you’re not doing anything until they renounce their role pre-probate.
I have a solicitor on my will but only if the other executor doesn’t want to do it.
But that’s not made explicit. It does make you wonder about a solicitor basically barging into the role to collect fees because they’re named purely to enable the will to be actioned if the other family beneficiary executors can’t.
The irony of needing to take legal advice to deal with a solicitor acting in your interests (because their role is to undertake the will in your interests as beneficiaries)
Imo, those solicitors need the book throwing at them on the basis of it looking like they’re just after an easy gig at the beneficiaries expense.
Am going to make sure my will has some kind of "if the other executors require, they may appoint" or suchlike on it....
So far this company have sent in two kids to Teams call, with clear instruction to "tell them it is what it is", i think my approach for now will be act like a pain in the arse until they realise this isn't a fight worth having....
boils my pi55 though - it's boarderline manipulation. all that money for calling around a few utilitiy companies and filling in some forms. if they've any sense they'll do that work offshore as well with unskilled labour... because it's unskilled work!!
Sorry for your loss. I have a similar situation with an ageing relative who has appointed No.1 son plus a solicitor as his executor...
Rules may be slightly different in England vs Scotland but in England if you search 'you can do probate' you will find a company that may be worth calling and they might be able to advise you on how you might persuade your father's solicitor to drop off.
I believe that English solicitors are obliged to publish their pricing under certain transparency rules and although they can charge whatever they want, I believe it has to be 'reasonable'.
I just found the below as an example which you could compare against what you have been quoted so far.
https://www.watkinsandgunn.co.uk/transparency-on-p...
[I have no connection to either firm mentioned above]
As there appears to be a flat to sell, you should be aware that the legal costs of selling that will need to be covered one way or another and if you have been quoted 1.75% + VAT that may or may not include those costs.
Just wondering if you could 'do a deal' with the family solicitors allowing them to act on the flat sale and possibly even to draft a 'deed of variation' so that your sister can pick up the 70% that you referred to and simultaneously agreeing to step back from the actual probate process and let you do that on a DIY basis?
Rules may be slightly different in England vs Scotland but in England if you search 'you can do probate' you will find a company that may be worth calling and they might be able to advise you on how you might persuade your father's solicitor to drop off.
I believe that English solicitors are obliged to publish their pricing under certain transparency rules and although they can charge whatever they want, I believe it has to be 'reasonable'.
I just found the below as an example which you could compare against what you have been quoted so far.
https://www.watkinsandgunn.co.uk/transparency-on-p...
[I have no connection to either firm mentioned above]
As there appears to be a flat to sell, you should be aware that the legal costs of selling that will need to be covered one way or another and if you have been quoted 1.75% + VAT that may or may not include those costs.
Just wondering if you could 'do a deal' with the family solicitors allowing them to act on the flat sale and possibly even to draft a 'deed of variation' so that your sister can pick up the 70% that you referred to and simultaneously agreeing to step back from the actual probate process and let you do that on a DIY basis?
Mogul said:
Sorry for your loss. I have a similar situation with an ageing relative who has appointed No.1 son plus a solicitor as his executor...
Rules may be slightly different in England vs Scotland but in England if you search 'you can do probate' you will find a company that may be worth calling and they might be able to advise you on how you might persuade your father's solicitor to drop off.
I believe that English solicitors are obliged to publish their pricing under certain transparency rules and although they can charge whatever they want, I believe it has to be 'reasonable'.
I just found the below as an example which you could compare against what you have been quoted so far.
https://www.watkinsandgunn.co.uk/transparency-on-p...
[I have no connection to either firm mentioned above]
As there appears to be a flat to sell, you should be aware that the legal costs of selling that will need to be covered one way or another and if you have been quoted 1.75% + VAT that may or may not include those costs.
Just wondering if you could 'do a deal' with the family solicitors allowing them to act on the flat sale and possibly even to draft a 'deed of variation' so that your sister can pick up the 70% that you referred to and simultaneously agreeing to step back from the actual probate process and let you do that on a DIY basis?
Thanks or this - that's really useful, and the link at least shows there is presedent out there for what i'm asking for: alternative services with their role reduced, and fees reduced also. Rules may be slightly different in England vs Scotland but in England if you search 'you can do probate' you will find a company that may be worth calling and they might be able to advise you on how you might persuade your father's solicitor to drop off.
I believe that English solicitors are obliged to publish their pricing under certain transparency rules and although they can charge whatever they want, I believe it has to be 'reasonable'.
I just found the below as an example which you could compare against what you have been quoted so far.
https://www.watkinsandgunn.co.uk/transparency-on-p...
[I have no connection to either firm mentioned above]
As there appears to be a flat to sell, you should be aware that the legal costs of selling that will need to be covered one way or another and if you have been quoted 1.75% + VAT that may or may not include those costs.
Just wondering if you could 'do a deal' with the family solicitors allowing them to act on the flat sale and possibly even to draft a 'deed of variation' so that your sister can pick up the 70% that you referred to and simultaneously agreeing to step back from the actual probate process and let you do that on a DIY basis?
For the flat sale - I would be suprised if the standard convenancing fees for a sale would be included there, but - you never know. Have a feeling like the disbursements to third parties, these are all added on top...
In fairness, the one concession they have made is to waive the fee for the Deed of Variation,and a 0.10% "discount" on fees. Beyond that it's a very "computer says no" response so far, but like i say above- probably because am just dealing with trainees, not the decision makers. Next call is next week, after the funeral, so we'll see if they see sense.
None of this stuff is hard - i've done it before, albeit for a tiny estate, but - if you know how to use Google/ChatGPT4, it's just work to do. And not 7 grand's worth of work that's for certain!
As the other chap says above, the irony of arguing with people put in place to apparently protect my interests....
Just reading the rules.
Executor can’t breach fiduciary duty to beneficiaries.
If the executor isn’t alone, and other executors as beneficiaries say the solicitor executor isn’t required, then surely that executor is in breach of duty to maximise the value of the estate via their fees?
As an executor for my father’s estate I know that I can basically give up that duty tomorrow if I wish.
There is no reason the solicitor can’t do in this case.
I’m very curious on the outcome on this.
I’d assumed they’d step aside on the basis above, and that was the expectation set when I created my current will with my brother as executor and a solicitor on there in case he decided he didn’t want to.
Have I been misadvised?
Executor can’t breach fiduciary duty to beneficiaries.
If the executor isn’t alone, and other executors as beneficiaries say the solicitor executor isn’t required, then surely that executor is in breach of duty to maximise the value of the estate via their fees?
As an executor for my father’s estate I know that I can basically give up that duty tomorrow if I wish.
There is no reason the solicitor can’t do in this case.
I’m very curious on the outcome on this.
I’d assumed they’d step aside on the basis above, and that was the expectation set when I created my current will with my brother as executor and a solicitor on there in case he decided he didn’t want to.
Have I been misadvised?
cidered77 said:
They just put a trainee in front of us who just gets flustered and repeats the same "it was your fathers wish that we be appointed"
Which it is, but he's not saying 'We have to do it by law'.I don't know the precise rules, as when I was an executor no solicitor was specified so I got my bookkeeper to do it, which he did very well and for about £500.
A swift google found this: https://www.buckles-law.co.uk/blog/how-to-remove-a... ; note halfway down the section 'How much does it cost to remove an Executor?'
So there is a protocol involved, but it may be that if you and your sister write the solicitors a joint letter and politely tell them that you will not be using them on grounds of cost (a cost your father is unlikely to have known), interests of beneficiaries etc, will they really fight you over it?
cidered77 said:
"it was your fathers wish that we be appointed"
Precisely. He wanted them appointed, they have been appointed and they need to honour his wishes just as much as you do. That means doing the legal work their client (your Dad) asked them to do.cidered77 said:
Appointed yes, but nothing is signed on scope of services and fees - at all
surely that means I don’t just need to accept their fees and services if they are over-specced for our needs?
The bottom line is you can challenge the solicitors bill at the end if you think it's unreasonable - although that may lead to delay and possible additional cost. There's a legal ombudsman with whom billing complaints can be resolved.surely that means I don’t just need to accept their fees and services if they are over-specced for our needs?
It's easy to overlook the amount of basic legwork involved in dealing with an estate. Solicitors often do that leg work and that's what leads to large bills based on an hourly rate. It's unclear whether you say they want to charge a flat percentage of the estate or whether that's their estimate of where the bill is likely to land. Either way, the more of the basic stuff you can do yourself (dealing with utilities, council tax etc) the lower their bill should be. But bear in mind part of their fee is for the "responsibility" involved in the job.
Realistically the best you can hope to achieve is by getting quotes from other firms and see if they come in about the same, or cheaper. If cheaper that possibly gives you a stick with which to beat down the costs of the original firm.
Have a look at this link, which suggests typical fees of 1% to 1.5%,
https://the-probate-network.co.uk/articles/how-muc...
Bear in mind your wish to change the division of assets will require a Deed of Variation, which is additional legal work.
Panamax said:
cidered77 said:
"it was your fathers wish that we be appointed"
Precisely. He wanted them appointed, they have been appointed and they need to honour his wishes just as much as you do. That means doing the legal work their client (your Dad) asked them to do.cidered77 said:
Appointed yes, but nothing is signed on scope of services and fees - at all
surely that means I don’t just need to accept their fees and services if they are over-specced for our needs?
The bottom line is you can challenge the solicitors bill at the end if you think it's unreasonable - although that may lead to delay and possible additional cost. There's a legal ombudsman with whom billing complaints can be resolved.surely that means I don’t just need to accept their fees and services if they are over-specced for our needs?
It's easy to overlook the amount of basic legwork involved in dealing with an estate. Solicitors often do that leg work and that's what leads to large bills based on an hourly rate. It's unclear whether you say they want to charge a flat percentage of the estate or whether that's their estimate of where the bill is likely to land. Either way, the more of the basic stuff you can do yourself (dealing with utilities, council tax etc) the lower their bill should be. But bear in mind part of their fee is for the "responsibility" involved in the job.
Realistically the best you can hope to achieve is by getting quotes from other firms and see if they come in about the same, or cheaper. If cheaper that possibly gives you a stick with which to beat down the costs of the original firm.
Have a look at this link, which suggests typical fees of 1% to 1.5%,
https://the-probate-network.co.uk/articles/how-muc...
Bear in mind your wish to change the division of assets will require a Deed of Variation, which is additional legal work.
The other troubling part of this, as it's not as if my Dad would have understood any of this. I know just heresay, but my sister was with him when they got all this signed at the local family high street solicitor and they just followed their advice, and she can't recall any indepth conversation about the legal work being difficult thus us both needing help. Her first reaction to me was "but that's not what happened, we didnt talk about what the solicitor did in detail - and me and Dad know you're great at sorting these things out bruv". What we have is two people likely intimidated by "legal stuff", but knowing wills are important just going along with what they were told. And i should have gotten involved, but - too busy, live too far away, and that's for me to deal with.
The fees are 1.75% fixed, now reduced to 1.65% fixed after Argument Call Two. And a free Deed of Variation. And i really can't see where the "leg work" is. We already spend an afternoon going through all mail (he kept all of it); we know every single direct debit with references, we know all assets (two bank accounts; 3 tangible assets of value including the flat); we know the 3 pensions/annuities he had included state don't form part of the estate.
The work is done - it's just form filling and calling people from hereon. Cleaning and preparing the flat for sale is the real hard work, and it's not like they'll be helping with that! Even a Deed of Variation - i can write that myself. Plenty of online examples, and i've just asked ChatGPT to write me one and it's nailed a pretty solid looking first draft!
I've asked them to list the work included - and be clear which requires specific legal expertises, vs. just following a published process. No answer so far, not suprisingly...
I get there will be many many cases where estates are complex, and the the flat fee model may leave them upside down. Complex or contested assets, hidden interests, lots of debt, bickering family members, loads of difficult to value stuff.... but this is not that. He had his watch, he had his MX5, his picture of Johnny Cash on the wall, a big telly, and mountains of mail in that one little flat, bless him.
Simpo Two said:
Which it is, but he's not saying 'We have to do it by law'.
I don't know the precise rules, as when I was an executor no solicitor was specified so I got my bookkeeper to do it, which he did very well and for about £500.
A swift google found this: https://www.buckles-law.co.uk/blog/how-to-remove-a... ; note halfway down the section 'How much does it cost to remove an Executor?'
So there is a protocol involved, but it may be that if you and your sister write the solicitors a joint letter and politely tell them that you will not be using them on grounds of cost (a cost your father is unlikely to have known), interests of beneficiaries etc, will they really fight you over it?
Thanks - really interesting link. Have seen similar, but not as detailed - listing specific sections of the appropriate acts. it's written in imagine the more common scenario where you have family members named as executors and some of them act like d1cks..... what I havent found yet is my scenario, where a firm has been appointed to "help" myself and my sister, and we don't want the help thankyouverymuch. I don't know the precise rules, as when I was an executor no solicitor was specified so I got my bookkeeper to do it, which he did very well and for about £500.
A swift google found this: https://www.buckles-law.co.uk/blog/how-to-remove-a... ; note halfway down the section 'How much does it cost to remove an Executor?'
So there is a protocol involved, but it may be that if you and your sister write the solicitors a joint letter and politely tell them that you will not be using them on grounds of cost (a cost your father is unlikely to have known), interests of beneficiaries etc, will they really fight you over it?
But even quoting those sections when the time is right i'm hoping will get them to file this in the "it's not worth our time, let's move onto the next pi55 easy 7 grand case for a few hours work"
LimmerickLad said:
Panamax said:
Bear in mind your wish to change the division of assets will require a Deed of Variation, which is additional legal work.
Does he - can't he can just give an extra share to her once everything is finalised?Better to just do a Deed of Variation, then no tax worries or risk.
Even that isn't too hard though, and doesn't require a lawyer to be involved in the drafting based on my research. It just needs to be a good clear document written to an appropriate standard. Not hard really if you can use the Interweb.
If you were to gift £75k to your sister, there would be no tax for her to pay (in almost every case).
The benefit of doing it via a DoV is that should YOU pop your clogs within the next 7 years, the £75k that YOU GAVE to your sister would use up the first £75k of your Nil Rate band...
Consequently, some of your beneficiaries could miss out if some element of your estate was otherwise subject to IHT. A remote risk perhaps, but probably worth the hassle of doing it via a DoV and as you say, a DIY DoV is possible but for the sake of a few £00s, a professional one might help, esp. if it helped feed your hungry solicitor who might still agree to decline the executor role if they are getting some crumbs...
The benefit of doing it via a DoV is that should YOU pop your clogs within the next 7 years, the £75k that YOU GAVE to your sister would use up the first £75k of your Nil Rate band...
Consequently, some of your beneficiaries could miss out if some element of your estate was otherwise subject to IHT. A remote risk perhaps, but probably worth the hassle of doing it via a DoV and as you say, a DIY DoV is possible but for the sake of a few £00s, a professional one might help, esp. if it helped feed your hungry solicitor who might still agree to decline the executor role if they are getting some crumbs...
Having a solicitor involved as Executor could significantly delay the final settlement as regardless of what is stated in the will the solicitor will want to protect their position and will want to wait at least 1 year to ensure that there is no challenge to the will and that there are no unknown dependants such as unknown spouses or siblings.
I’m confused how a solicitor is doing their fiduciary duty as an executor by spending £7,000 of an estates value unnecessarily.
Even more baffling how they’d fight you, the beneficiaries and two executors, using no doubt the estates assets, to do so
I think I’ll ask my solicitor on this as I need to update my will any way.
I’d argue any decent solicitor should stand aside if requested.
But a part of me questions their conflict of interests in any case where they won’t stand aside as it can only and explicitly be for their own gain!
Even more baffling how they’d fight you, the beneficiaries and two executors, using no doubt the estates assets, to do so
I think I’ll ask my solicitor on this as I need to update my will any way.
I’d argue any decent solicitor should stand aside if requested.
But a part of me questions their conflict of interests in any case where they won’t stand aside as it can only and explicitly be for their own gain!
Mr Whippy said:
But a part of me questions their conflict of interests in any case where they won’t stand aside as it can only and explicitly be for their own gain!
And that i fear is the truth of it. There is no value provided here with their role relative to its cost, there is *nothing* here they can do we can't easily do ourselves -none of this work intimidates or worries me in the slightest. Examples given so far of the "complex" work required as just following simple established processes. They are standing their ground I don't doubt because a partner has told one of the kids put in front of me "tell them to stick it, we are appointed, and we want our 6.5k". It stinks in my view.
The angle i am looking into now is - what happens if we just do it all anyway? Can we still get a Grant of Probate, thus be able to allocate finances - if we just crack on and do it all, what is their comeback? Without them seeing a death certificate, they can't actually do anything, surely?
cidered77 said:
And that i fear is the truth of it. There is no value provided here with their role relative to its cost, there is *nothing* here they can do we can't easily do ourselves -none of this work intimidates or worries me in the slightest. Examples given so far of the "complex" work required as just following simple established processes.
They are standing their ground I don't doubt because a partner has told one of the kids put in front of me "tell them to stick it, we are appointed, and we want our 6.5k". It stinks in my view.
The angle i am looking into now is - what happens if we just do it all anyway? Can we still get a Grant of Probate, thus be able to allocate finances - if we just crack on and do it all, what is their comeback? Without them seeing a death certificate, they can't actually do anything, surely?
I don't think you will get a probate award without them being named as well unless they agree to either step aside or reserve their position but I don't think there is anything stopping you from applying without them and seeing what they do.They are standing their ground I don't doubt because a partner has told one of the kids put in front of me "tell them to stick it, we are appointed, and we want our 6.5k". It stinks in my view.
The angle i am looking into now is - what happens if we just do it all anyway? Can we still get a Grant of Probate, thus be able to allocate finances - if we just crack on and do it all, what is their comeback? Without them seeing a death certificate, they can't actually do anything, surely?
cidered77 said:
what happens if we just do it all anyway? Can we still get a Grant of Probate
The Online Probate requires the status of all Executors named in the will to be declared. If the solicitor dies or declares power reserved then you can state this on the online form yourself but if they are acting as executor then they need to be included in the sign off and so to have them excluded you would have to lie on the form.The galling situation is that the solicitor can only get the necessary financial information from the family and in reality the family does all the work and the executor solicitor just fills in a few boxes on an online form except that the solicitor will want to take the all traditional legal route and wont use the online probate thus adding 6 months to the process.
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