Fisher Investments
Discussion
Had a pleasant lunchtime with some old schoolchums today (think the Monty Python 'Luxury' sketch lol) and the subject of money raised its inevitable head.
One of them has £100K (most of his savings I think) in a building society on 4.something percent. Another has maybe £1M to play with of which about a third he entrusts to Fisher Investments: https://www.fisherinvestments.com/en-us He says they charge 1.5% and average 10% growth a year which is better than he can do himself. But they also 'manage' it for him, which of course means they can charge for dealing, if they're anything like the slippery jackals that I once used, they can more than double their fees that way. My friend says he doesn't see the charges, just the net growth, but he's happy with them.
So I just wondered if anyone here has used Fisher, and if so, how much they actually charge. Interestingly we all have our own methods; I prefer to manage my own pile, and the fourth friend has three rental properties.
One of them has £100K (most of his savings I think) in a building society on 4.something percent. Another has maybe £1M to play with of which about a third he entrusts to Fisher Investments: https://www.fisherinvestments.com/en-us He says they charge 1.5% and average 10% growth a year which is better than he can do himself. But they also 'manage' it for him, which of course means they can charge for dealing, if they're anything like the slippery jackals that I once used, they can more than double their fees that way. My friend says he doesn't see the charges, just the net growth, but he's happy with them.
So I just wondered if anyone here has used Fisher, and if so, how much they actually charge. Interestingly we all have our own methods; I prefer to manage my own pile, and the fourth friend has three rental properties.
Personally I'd want to see a full breakdown of all the fees I was being charged, but each to their own I guess.
The UK web site is very vague concerning fees, with no figures mentioned. Perhaps clients get to do some negotiation on costs?
https://www.fisherinvestments.com/en-gb/personal-w...
The UK web site is very vague concerning fees, with no figures mentioned. Perhaps clients get to do some negotiation on costs?
https://www.fisherinvestments.com/en-gb/personal-w...
Without wishing to be rude, your friend sounds like the kind of customer these companies absolutely love and why active management for retail is overwhelmingly just money for old rope. He's been paying them 1.5% p.a. to underperform the market over the last 5 years, and seemingly isn't on the ball enough to realise that's the case or appreciate just how much he'll be giving away in the long run paying those kinds of fees.
This was my comment from the last Fisher thread on here last year:
My experiences from talking to them several years ago:
1. Their fees are high (and they take a percentage up-front just to move you onto their platform).
2. They are extremely pushy - the sales guy that visited me was an ex-photocopier salesman for Xerox. They then never leave you alone.
3. They do quote very good returns, but from memory when I was looking they weren't any better than a Vanguard LS100 or some of the Intelligent Money portfolios (which both have much lower on-going charges).
My conclusion was to not touch them with a barge pole.
My experiences from talking to them several years ago:
1. Their fees are high (and they take a percentage up-front just to move you onto their platform).
2. They are extremely pushy - the sales guy that visited me was an ex-photocopier salesman for Xerox. They then never leave you alone.
3. They do quote very good returns, but from memory when I was looking they weren't any better than a Vanguard LS100 or some of the Intelligent Money portfolios (which both have much lower on-going charges).
My conclusion was to not touch them with a barge pole.
NowWatchThisDrive said:
Without wishing to be rude, your friend sounds like the kind of customer these companies absolutely love and why active management for retail is overwhelmingly just money for old rope. He's been paying them 1.5% p.a. to underperform the market over the last 5 years, and seemingly isn't on the ball enough to realise that's the case or appreciate just how much he'll be giving away in the long run paying those kinds of fees.
This.I bet if Fisher sent him an invoice for £15,000 evey year he would have a slightly different view - the fact that it just 'disappears' from his pot obviously makes it easier for him.....
I also bet he is paying quite a bit more than 1.5% when all the various fees are added up - they weren't exactly forthcoming with ALL the charges when I was speaking to them.
Whenever Fisher call me for a “chat”, my response these days is…
“F*** off you c***s, and stop ringing me!”
I used to be more polite, but politeness doesn’t work with them. Swearing loudly at them also doesn’t work, but at least it’s fun.
Blocking each number has, over the years, gradually reduced the frequency of calls.
“F*** off you c***s, and stop ringing me!”
I used to be more polite, but politeness doesn’t work with them. Swearing loudly at them also doesn’t work, but at least it’s fun.
Blocking each number has, over the years, gradually reduced the frequency of calls.
river_rat said:
My conclusion was to not touch them with a barge pole.
Yup. My approach would be to find the longest barge pole possible, and then try to find a second, equally long barge pole. Then lash the two barge poles together, end to end. And once you have your double-length super barge pole, still don’t touch Fisher Investments with it.Edited by Dr Mike Oxgreen on Thursday 21st December 12:16
Thanks all for the comments; I'm not surprised.
t, do this instead'.
He manages the rest of his investments and gave Fisher a trial to see if they could do better than he did. And they did, so he kept them on. There's a certain logic in that.
I may however copy some of this thread to the friend wondering what to do with £100K. It's the old problem - sensing there are better returns to be had beyond a building society but with insufficient knowledge and confidence to do anything about it. Outfits like Fisher fill the gap. Experience tells me that with dealing fees they can get up to about 4%. And if the pre-fee growth was 10%, they're taking 40% of it, and for no risk - you're taking that.
river_rat said:
I bet if Fisher sent him an invoice for £15,000 evey year he would have a slightly different view - the fact that it just 'disappears' from his pot obviously makes it easier for him.....
I also bet he is paying quite a bit more than 1.5% when all the various fees are added up - they weren't exactly forthcoming with ALL the charges when I was speaking to them.
My thoughts too, having escaped from a similar trap some years ago. But he was very satisfied with them and I didn't want to shoot them down in front of him. If somebody's happy with their arrangements then it's unsettling to say 'No actually that's sI also bet he is paying quite a bit more than 1.5% when all the various fees are added up - they weren't exactly forthcoming with ALL the charges when I was speaking to them.
t, do this instead'.He manages the rest of his investments and gave Fisher a trial to see if they could do better than he did. And they did, so he kept them on. There's a certain logic in that.
I may however copy some of this thread to the friend wondering what to do with £100K. It's the old problem - sensing there are better returns to be had beyond a building society but with insufficient knowledge and confidence to do anything about it. Outfits like Fisher fill the gap. Experience tells me that with dealing fees they can get up to about 4%. And if the pre-fee growth was 10%, they're taking 40% of it, and for no risk - you're taking that.
As the late, great Charlie Munger said: "show me the incentive and I'll show you the outcome".
When you're giving someone your money to manage, always remember that if they had genuine alpha in picking stocks or funds then they probably wouldn't be doing it for retail customers, whereby they're compensated primarily on the basis of AUM rather than performance.
When you're giving someone your money to manage, always remember that if they had genuine alpha in picking stocks or funds then they probably wouldn't be doing it for retail customers, whereby they're compensated primarily on the basis of AUM rather than performance.
mikef said:
It’s funny that FI plaster (presumably expensive) ads everywhere that used to say “Can you retire on £1m?” Then it was £800k. More recently £500k.
Going for smaller and smaller fish... when instinct would suggest you'd go for the bigger fish because 2% of £1M is twice 2% of £500K and no harder to do.I have a client who has been invested in the Purisima Fund, which is managed by Fisher.
I also manage money for this client (unconnected to Fisher).
To my knowledge this fund has done well. I believe these figures are net of fees. I have no skin in the game here, just relaying my experience
A quick google found this data. No surprise but top 10 holdings look very similar to the S&P500’s top ten….
[url]
|https://thumbsnap.com/bJpK8vzy[/url]
I also manage money for this client (unconnected to Fisher).
To my knowledge this fund has done well. I believe these figures are net of fees. I have no skin in the game here, just relaying my experience
A quick google found this data. No surprise but top 10 holdings look very similar to the S&P500’s top ten….
[url]|https://thumbsnap.com/bJpK8vzy[/url]Gassing Station | Finance | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff