Section 21 / n5b - accelerated posession - advice

[philv]

Hi,

i am selling a flat that is tenanted.

I have issued the section 21 and waited the approprita emount of time.

I now need to apply for a posession order using form n5b.

But, talk about ambiguous.

Could anyone help with some questions please.

Do i just send the form and docs (3 copies) to the court?

Do i send a copy of everything to the tenant or does the court do that?

This bit is very confusing.

On the n5b form it has a section for 'certificate of service’.

Does the court fill this out? Or do i send copies of everything to the tenant?

I read somewhere that when filling in names, etc i should use MR, MRS etc.

Is this true?

I didn’t do this on the section 21.

Also for the gas certicates, how to rent guide, and epc, there is no mention of proof of giving these.

So i don’t need to submit proof of service? Only provide the documents i have the tenat?

There are no guidance notes.

Thanks for any help

[Jayyy]

Answering your questions on the basis of what I did on my most recent one which went through without issue;

You send the form (x3) and 3 x copy docs to the court - if the flat has got more than one owner you send an additional copy for each owner - in my case the court then sent our copy bundles back to me and my wife separately.

The court complete the Certificate of Service after they have served the bundle on the tenant, so once the notice period has expired you don't send anything further to the tenant directly (or at least I didn't).

Re names, I just used first name/surname - the N5B I used didn't have any boxes for titles etc.

I just provided copies of all of the documents I had previously issued (gas test, EPC etc), but then I do send to tenants' via email so had proof of service which I included.

This is not definitive advice, just my recent (successful) experience. This was for a property in Wales but from others I have done previously in England the process was the same.

Good luck

[philv]

Jayyy said:

Answering your questions on the basis of what I did on my most recent one which went through without issue;

You send the form (x3) and 3 x copy docs to the court - if the flat has got more than one owner you send an additional copy for each owner - in my case the court then sent our copy bundles back to me and my wife separately.

The court complete the Certificate of Service after they have served the bundle on the tenant, so once the notice period has expired you don't send anything further to the tenant directly (or at least I didn't).

Re names, I just used first name/surname - the N5B I used didn't have any boxes for titles etc.

I just provided copies of all of the documents I had previously issued (gas test, EPC etc), but then I do send to tenants' via email so had proof of service which I included.

This is not definitive advice, just my recent (successful) experience. This was for a property in Wales but from others I have done previously in England the process was the same.

Good luck

Thanks for your helpful reply.

When it asks for the epc and date it was given, is it askign for the one given before the tenancy began or the latest one given?

I have posting proof for the form 6a (section 21).

Did you fill in a certificate of service for this using form n215 or another form or was proof of posting enough?

Many thanks.

[Jayyy]

I believe it will be asking for the date the current EPC was issued as there will no doubt be some existing tenancies that started prior to the requirement for EPCs etc. It's also my understanding that obtaining an order for possession is in part contingent on the various certs and documentation being in existence/valid at the time the eviction proceedings are initiated.

Proof of postage of the s21 notice will be fine I'm sure.

edited for typo

[philv]

Thanks again.

I may send both the first and last epc in.
Just t be safe.

Last 2 questions (apologies).

Is a flat in a converted town house a dwelling house?

And all the fields at the top right of the form....adress of coury, issue date, fee, total cost, etc.
Are they for the court to fill in ?

Thanks again

[andy43]

Also check you have proof of giving the tenant the latest edition of the govts How to Rent booklet thing. I hadn't.
It's worth (IMHO) paying to get it all checked before it's issued. I used Legal4Landlords. It's money for old rope but they know the process inside out.

[Jayyy]

I believe a dwelling house refers to any premises used for residential purposes (as opposed to commercial etc) so would include your converted flat.

Re the boxes - I filled everything in myself, including the specific court, fees etc and only left blank the bits the court would have to complete - claim number/issue dates

If you need anything else let me know.

[philv]

Thank you.
Much appreciated.

There really isn't much good info on the internet about filling this orm.
What there is is misleading or outof date or just plain wrong.

And there are no guidance notes on the government website.
Very odd for such a used form.
Possibly intentionally taken down to hinder.

[andy43]

I'd agree there is zero help if you haven't done this before.
Check this page out - could be worth the money to avoid a cockup -
https://www.propertyinvestmentproject.co.uk/landlo...

[philv]

I feel a bit better now about filling the form in thanks.

Its ridiculous that nowhere on the form does it ask for proof of serving the
Epc / how to rent / gas certificates.

I gave the first epc / how to rent / gas cert
by hand.
The tenant sighed and dared the first page of each.
The other gas certificates were emailed.

It still concerns me about whether to give/put the date for the first or last epic to rent.
I seem to get different answers for this.

[philv]

The form asks for the 'then current' copy of the right to rent doc.
Whether that is first or last, who knows.
Different people say differently.

[Jayyy]

In my experience it is the copy which is extant at the point of issue (ie the time the tenancy commenced).

I wouldn't worry too much about it though, as I know of instances where docs such as the How to Rent Guide or prescribed information have not been issued at the start of the tenancy, but have been provided prior to the commencement of eviction proceedings, and possession has been awarded etc.

[Wings]

I obtained my last repossession of a rental property via the Courts, without even the Courts requesting a court hearing. That was a social housing tenant with an eighteen (18) years tenancy, mother and two (2) children. Whilst the tenant, mother wanted to be served Notice, she was being advised by the council's housing officer.

The above period of tenancy covered three (3) Assured Shorthold Tenancy Agreements, and a Statutory Periodic Tenancy Agreement. My interpretation of form N5b was that 3 copies of every tenancy agreement had to be submitted, the same copies for EVERY EPC, the same for EVERY Gas Safety Certificate, and for EVERY Deposit Protection Certificate.

OP do not forget to send two (2) copies of the Pre-Action Protocol Communication form to your tenant/s, for your tenant/s to complete and return to you, for you to forward one (1) copy to the Court.

Lastly, Op, if you obtain repossession from the Court, use High Court bailiffs, and do not change locks, repossess property without bailiffs being in attention.

[philv]

Thanks.

What is the Pre-Action Protocol Communication form?

First I've seen that mentioned.

I've issued the section 21 (6a).

[philv]

It looks liek the Pre-Action Protocol Communication form is for social housing only.

[Wings]

The Pre-Action Protocol can be applied to any relevant legal action, debt, housing repossession etc. The landlord's emphasis should be on ensuring that the tenant/s is kept informed, that the landlord is taking the issue seriously, is acting reasonably, seeking to both avoid legal action, and bringing the matter to a satisfactory conclusion for all parties. It shows to the Court that the landlord was seeking to avoid taking repossession before the court.

I do everything to avoid arguments during any court hearing, and to that end, both at the start of both the Assured Shorthold Tenancy Agreement, the Statutory Periodic Agreement, and when serving the Section 21 (6a) Notice, the following documents are served to the tenant/s, by email and post;-

Assured Shorthold Tenancy Agreement, Energy Performance Certificate (EPC), Annual Gas Safety Certificate, Electrical Report Certificate, Prescribed Information Landlord and Tenant contact details, Deposit Protection Certificate AST, Deposit Protection Certificate SPT, "My Deposits" Information for Tenants leaflet, Open Inventory

[philv]

In this instance, the tenant is a friend, and she actually wants the possession order / eviction in order to get a council house/flat.

As such, she will not contest the possession order.
Nor will she inform the council until it is too late to contest.

[philv]

Can anyone help ooon this question please -

17c. If there is no relevant gas appliance in any room occupied by the Defendant, has the Claimant displayed in a prominent position in the premises throughout the tenancy a copy of the gas safety record with a statement endorsed on it that the Defendant is entitled to have their own copy of the gas safety record on request to the Claimant at an address specified in the statement?
Yes or No?

Firsty it's an if, with a yes or no.
Secondly it is ambiguous in it's wording.
Awful awful form.

[andy43]

philv said:

In this instance, the tenant is a friend, and she actually wants the possession order / eviction in order to get a council house/flat.

As such, she will not contest the possession order.
Nor will she inform the council until it is too late to contest.

I’ve had one (very) crap set of tenants in ten years so I’ve done section 8 just the once. I tried DIY S21 but because my how to rent form wasn’t the latest edition I was advised it’d fail in court, so L4L advised moving to S8. Took 9-10 months from issuing the S8 to the point of the bailiff (5 foot nothing lady attending by herself) date.
Re the council, my understanding is the tenant will get zero help other than be advised to stop paying rent, to contest it throughout, to make it as drawn out, as expensive and as difficult as possible for the LL right to the point of bailiff eviction. Only then, the same morning the tenant is forcefully evicted and the locks changed, will the council ‘assist’ with temporary accommodation.
At no point should the tenant appear to be ‘making themselves intentionally homeless’ so I’d suggest she should contest it and be able to prove it but I’m not an expert by any means.
Chance of getting a council flat/house on the day of eviction from what little I know is zero, but it’d depend on the council and their supply and demand I suppose. I know my ex tenants are still in ‘temporary accommodation’ 50 miles away two weeks after the eviction, and they have school age kids, so do get your tenant to seriously look into furniture storage and the likelihood of anybody official giving a st until she’s 100% homeless.

[philv]

Thanks or that info.

Section 21
accelerate possion order.

If she does not reply to the court within 14 days, there will be no court hearing.
There is normally no hearing unless it is defended.

The tenant does not want to defend.
She just wants to get it over with asap.

If she does not defend it should i think be far more simple.