Conveyancing Quote - Sense Check
Discussion
Hi,
I have a friend who appears to be having his pants pulled down by a conveyancing solicitor. If someone could cast their peepers over the numbers then I'd be most grateful. They come in two halves; buying the new home and selling the old one.
FWIW, the house is in NI and I don't know if different rules apply there.
Buying
Professional Fees £1,740.00
VAT £348.00
Priority Land Registry Search £31.00
Land Registry Registration of Charge £110.00
Land Registry Registration Fee £445.00
SDLT £2,000.00
Solicitor Professional Fee Mortgage Lender £200.00
VAT £40.00
Land Registry Folio Map £7.00
VAT £1.40
BACS/CHAPS £36.00
VAT £7.20
Special Delivery £10.00
VAT £2.00
Bankrupcy £152.00
VAT £30.40
Total £5,160.00
Selling
Professional Fees £1,236.00
VAT £247.20
LR Folio Map £7.00
VAT £1.40
Regional Prop. Cert. £84.00
VAT £16.80
Statutory Charges Register £29.20
VAT £5.84
Bankrupcy £152.00
VAT £30.40
Registration of Vacate/Release £20.00
Local Council Property Certificate £90.00
VAT £18.00
Company Search £31.60
VAT £6.32
LR Folio Search £7.00
VAT £1.40
BACS/CHAPS £36.00
VAT £7.20
TOTAL £2,027.36
BIG TOTAL (Buying and Selling) £7,187.36
Where an item has 'VAT' listed in the following line then the company are proposing to charge VAT on that item.
The value of the house is around £200k.
Questions that immediately strike me are that several of the items seem to have VAT added when other quotes from other conveyencers haven't added VAT to the item. Are all the VAT-added items in the list genuinely VAT-able?
Also, the cost of some items seems very high; 'Bankrupcy' is listed for both buying and selling, which surprises me as I only paid for a bankrupcy search when I last bought a house, not when I sold one, and it only cost £4.80. My friend is being charged £152 for both, plus VAT (total £365). BACS/CHAPS are exactly twice the price I paid when I last bought/sold a house three years ago. There is also a 'Company Search' for selling, and he is being charged a separate set of 'Professional Fees' to do with the mortgage when buying the house. Are all of these normal?
If anyone could offer some sage comment then I'd be grateful. Thanks.
I have a friend who appears to be having his pants pulled down by a conveyancing solicitor. If someone could cast their peepers over the numbers then I'd be most grateful. They come in two halves; buying the new home and selling the old one.
FWIW, the house is in NI and I don't know if different rules apply there.
Buying
Professional Fees £1,740.00
VAT £348.00
Priority Land Registry Search £31.00
Land Registry Registration of Charge £110.00
Land Registry Registration Fee £445.00
SDLT £2,000.00
Solicitor Professional Fee Mortgage Lender £200.00
VAT £40.00
Land Registry Folio Map £7.00
VAT £1.40
BACS/CHAPS £36.00
VAT £7.20
Special Delivery £10.00
VAT £2.00
Bankrupcy £152.00
VAT £30.40
Total £5,160.00
Selling
Professional Fees £1,236.00
VAT £247.20
LR Folio Map £7.00
VAT £1.40
Regional Prop. Cert. £84.00
VAT £16.80
Statutory Charges Register £29.20
VAT £5.84
Bankrupcy £152.00
VAT £30.40
Registration of Vacate/Release £20.00
Local Council Property Certificate £90.00
VAT £18.00
Company Search £31.60
VAT £6.32
LR Folio Search £7.00
VAT £1.40
BACS/CHAPS £36.00
VAT £7.20
TOTAL £2,027.36
BIG TOTAL (Buying and Selling) £7,187.36
Where an item has 'VAT' listed in the following line then the company are proposing to charge VAT on that item.
The value of the house is around £200k.
Questions that immediately strike me are that several of the items seem to have VAT added when other quotes from other conveyencers haven't added VAT to the item. Are all the VAT-added items in the list genuinely VAT-able?
Also, the cost of some items seems very high; 'Bankrupcy' is listed for both buying and selling, which surprises me as I only paid for a bankrupcy search when I last bought a house, not when I sold one, and it only cost £4.80. My friend is being charged £152 for both, plus VAT (total £365). BACS/CHAPS are exactly twice the price I paid when I last bought/sold a house three years ago. There is also a 'Company Search' for selling, and he is being charged a separate set of 'Professional Fees' to do with the mortgage when buying the house. Are all of these normal?
If anyone could offer some sage comment then I'd be grateful. Thanks.
Thanks Sarnie. There are other quotes around, which is why these charges look so high.
Actually, that's another question: at what stage in the process is it too late to 'change horse' with solicitors? I can see that it'll be undesirable to do so once legally have been instructed but is it possible?
Actually, that's another question: at what stage in the process is it too late to 'change horse' with solicitors? I can see that it'll be undesirable to do so once legally have been instructed but is it possible?
My fees for a house ~£220k in NI were around £1900 a couple of months ago in total. Professional fee sounds high in this instance. Definitely shop around, you’ll only need to visit the solicitors once or twice in reality so maybe don’t be afraid to extend your search. Boyd Rice solicitors get a mention regularly on an NI motoring forum I frequent. One of the solicitors there is a member.
2Btoo said:
Thanks Sarnie. There are other quotes around, which is why these charges look so high.
Actually, that's another question: at what stage in the process is it too late to 'change horse' with solicitors? I can see that it'll be undesirable to do so once legally have been instructed but is it possible?
It depends if a mortgage involved or not. Lender get very suspicious when you ask to change solicitors, but it's possible. If you get them to request the searches, you can actually pay them for them and give them to another solicitor............naturally it's better to finish with the same solicitor you start with.....Actually, that's another question: at what stage in the process is it too late to 'change horse' with solicitors? I can see that it'll be undesirable to do so once legally have been instructed but is it possible?
The headline fees do look high for such a low value property. Fees typically scale woth property value (as the PII risk to the law firm grows).
Whilst they can usually haggle on fees it is a little late now if they have already accepted them and instructed. Begs the question why they insutructed them if they found their fees too high?
In terms if VAT, fees paid to the gov such as LR fees are almost always without vat. Search fees are also usually without vat, however there are instances where vat is charged on both of these. If the law firm buys the searches through a reselling portal or agent and especially if they are bought as part of a bundle of searches / fees then HMRC rules state that VAT must be added as part of the value added bundle / pack. One thing for sure VAT beingn charged will not be dodgy, nor is it likely a law firm would make a mistake on such. It is almost certainly down to the channel / method in which the law firm obtains the searches themselves. Small law firms often buy thoigh channel partners for simplicity to them, bigger law firms have the volumne and IT capabilities to buy and integrate direct.
Note - my comments above are based on first hand experience as an IT director for 30+ years for one of the buggest law firms in the UK - although I am now retired
Whilst they can usually haggle on fees it is a little late now if they have already accepted them and instructed. Begs the question why they insutructed them if they found their fees too high?
In terms if VAT, fees paid to the gov such as LR fees are almost always without vat. Search fees are also usually without vat, however there are instances where vat is charged on both of these. If the law firm buys the searches through a reselling portal or agent and especially if they are bought as part of a bundle of searches / fees then HMRC rules state that VAT must be added as part of the value added bundle / pack. One thing for sure VAT beingn charged will not be dodgy, nor is it likely a law firm would make a mistake on such. It is almost certainly down to the channel / method in which the law firm obtains the searches themselves. Small law firms often buy thoigh channel partners for simplicity to them, bigger law firms have the volumne and IT capabilities to buy and integrate direct.
Note - my comments above are based on first hand experience as an IT director for 30+ years for one of the buggest law firms in the UK - although I am now retired
Are you comparing like with like?
When we’ve moved, we’ve usually used a conveyancer who worked from home somewhere in Sussex (i think she has now retired, unfortunately). She was good but did things at her own pace - not a problem as she was upfront about that and was otherwise very good quality. She was very cheap.
Once, when we bought our London house, we had to go from offer to completion quickly as part of the agreement. So we paid my wife’s old law firm (a pukka private client firm in central London which were solicitors to a number of very wealthy, landed gentry types) to do the conveyancing. It cost a lot more but they did it very quickly, and also very good quality.
So, in this case, is it just that the OP has a quote from a firm which wouldn’t usually dip their toes in the £200k property market?
When we’ve moved, we’ve usually used a conveyancer who worked from home somewhere in Sussex (i think she has now retired, unfortunately). She was good but did things at her own pace - not a problem as she was upfront about that and was otherwise very good quality. She was very cheap.
Once, when we bought our London house, we had to go from offer to completion quickly as part of the agreement. So we paid my wife’s old law firm (a pukka private client firm in central London which were solicitors to a number of very wealthy, landed gentry types) to do the conveyancing. It cost a lot more but they did it very quickly, and also very good quality.
So, in this case, is it just that the OP has a quote from a firm which wouldn’t usually dip their toes in the £200k property market?
Zigster said:
Are you comparing like with like?
When we’ve moved, we’ve usually used a conveyancer who worked from home somewhere in Sussex (i think she has now retired, unfortunately). She was good but did things at her own pace - not a problem as she was upfront about that and was otherwise very good quality. She was very cheap.
Once, when we bought our London house, we had to go from offer to completion quickly as part of the agreement. So we paid my wife’s old law firm (a pukka private client firm in central London which were solicitors to a number of very wealthy, landed gentry types) to do the conveyancing. It cost a lot more but they did it very quickly, and also very good quality.
So, in this case, is it just that the OP has a quote from a firm which wouldn’t usually dip their toes in the £200k property market?
To be fair, we shouldn't expect to pay more, for a solicitor to work quicker When we’ve moved, we’ve usually used a conveyancer who worked from home somewhere in Sussex (i think she has now retired, unfortunately). She was good but did things at her own pace - not a problem as she was upfront about that and was otherwise very good quality. She was very cheap.
Once, when we bought our London house, we had to go from offer to completion quickly as part of the agreement. So we paid my wife’s old law firm (a pukka private client firm in central London which were solicitors to a number of very wealthy, landed gentry types) to do the conveyancing. It cost a lot more but they did it very quickly, and also very good quality.
So, in this case, is it just that the OP has a quote from a firm which wouldn’t usually dip their toes in the £200k property market?
2Btoo said:
Hi,
I have a friend who appears to be having his pants pulled down by a conveyancing solicitor. If someone could cast their peepers over the numbers then I'd be most grateful. They come in two halves; buying the new home and selling the old one.
FWIW, the house is in NI and I don't know if different rules apply there.
Buying
Professional Fees £1,740.00
VAT £348.00
Priority Land Registry Search £31.00
Land Registry Registration of Charge £110.00
Land Registry Registration Fee £445.00
SDLT £2,000.00
Solicitor Professional Fee Mortgage Lender £200.00
VAT £40.00
Land Registry Folio Map £7.00
VAT £1.40
BACS/CHAPS £36.00
VAT £7.20
Special Delivery £10.00
VAT £2.00
Bankrupcy £152.00
VAT £30.40
Total £5,160.00
Selling
Professional Fees £1,236.00
VAT £247.20
LR Folio Map £7.00
VAT £1.40
Regional Prop. Cert. £84.00
VAT £16.80
Statutory Charges Register £29.20
VAT £5.84
Bankrupcy £152.00
VAT £30.40
Registration of Vacate/Release £20.00
Local Council Property Certificate £90.00
VAT £18.00
Company Search £31.60
VAT £6.32
LR Folio Search £7.00
VAT £1.40
BACS/CHAPS £36.00
VAT £7.20
TOTAL £2,027.36
BIG TOTAL (Buying and Selling) £7,187.36
Where an item has 'VAT' listed in the following line then the company are proposing to charge VAT on that item.
The value of the house is around £200k.
Questions that immediately strike me are that several of the items seem to have VAT added when other quotes from other conveyencers haven't added VAT to the item. Are all the VAT-added items in the list genuinely VAT-able?
Also, the cost of some items seems very high; 'Bankrupcy' is listed for both buying and selling, which surprises me as I only paid for a bankrupcy search when I last bought a house, not when I sold one, and it only cost £4.80. My friend is being charged £152 for both, plus VAT (total £365). BACS/CHAPS are exactly twice the price I paid when I last bought/sold a house three years ago. There is also a 'Company Search' for selling, and he is being charged a separate set of 'Professional Fees' to do with the mortgage when buying the house. Are all of these normal?
If anyone could offer some sage comment then I'd be grateful. Thanks.
Comparing this to what I am just about to pay on a £580k purchase in Kent.I have a friend who appears to be having his pants pulled down by a conveyancing solicitor. If someone could cast their peepers over the numbers then I'd be most grateful. They come in two halves; buying the new home and selling the old one.
FWIW, the house is in NI and I don't know if different rules apply there.
Buying
Professional Fees £1,740.00
VAT £348.00
Priority Land Registry Search £31.00
Land Registry Registration of Charge £110.00
Land Registry Registration Fee £445.00
SDLT £2,000.00
Solicitor Professional Fee Mortgage Lender £200.00
VAT £40.00
Land Registry Folio Map £7.00
VAT £1.40
BACS/CHAPS £36.00
VAT £7.20
Special Delivery £10.00
VAT £2.00
Bankrupcy £152.00
VAT £30.40
Total £5,160.00
Selling
Professional Fees £1,236.00
VAT £247.20
LR Folio Map £7.00
VAT £1.40
Regional Prop. Cert. £84.00
VAT £16.80
Statutory Charges Register £29.20
VAT £5.84
Bankrupcy £152.00
VAT £30.40
Registration of Vacate/Release £20.00
Local Council Property Certificate £90.00
VAT £18.00
Company Search £31.60
VAT £6.32
LR Folio Search £7.00
VAT £1.40
BACS/CHAPS £36.00
VAT £7.20
TOTAL £2,027.36
BIG TOTAL (Buying and Selling) £7,187.36
Where an item has 'VAT' listed in the following line then the company are proposing to charge VAT on that item.
The value of the house is around £200k.
Questions that immediately strike me are that several of the items seem to have VAT added when other quotes from other conveyencers haven't added VAT to the item. Are all the VAT-added items in the list genuinely VAT-able?
Also, the cost of some items seems very high; 'Bankrupcy' is listed for both buying and selling, which surprises me as I only paid for a bankrupcy search when I last bought a house, not when I sold one, and it only cost £4.80. My friend is being charged £152 for both, plus VAT (total £365). BACS/CHAPS are exactly twice the price I paid when I last bought/sold a house three years ago. There is also a 'Company Search' for selling, and he is being charged a separate set of 'Professional Fees' to do with the mortgage when buying the house. Are all of these normal?
If anyone could offer some sage comment then I'd be grateful. Thanks.
Professional fees £1820 (plus VAT £364)
SDLT 1 form £95 (plus VAT £19)
Mortgage related £175 (plus VAT £35)
Searches £389 (no VAT)
Bankruptcy £4 (no VAT)
Land registry £295 (no VAT)
Obviously my SDLT element is way higher than in your quote.
Guys,
Thanks for the answers. I think the friend knows that the cost is steep; the question is whether the various searches are necessary; whether they are priced fairly and whether they should have VAT added.
In a sense, the fact that the professional fees are high is a bit unarguable; some places charge more than others and that's business. It's whether all the ancillary stuff is necessary and being charged for correctly that is the question.
Thanks very much for your input.
Thanks for the answers. I think the friend knows that the cost is steep; the question is whether the various searches are necessary; whether they are priced fairly and whether they should have VAT added.
In a sense, the fact that the professional fees are high is a bit unarguable; some places charge more than others and that's business. It's whether all the ancillary stuff is necessary and being charged for correctly that is the question.
Thanks very much for your input.
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