Probate - DIY cost saving

[Laup99]

Not sure if this is the right place on the forum but....

Has anyone had experience of doing your own probate rather than a solicitor?

In short they are going to charge 4k for a very straight forward estate.

(No property or items in possession, not debts and the whole estate sits in one bank account and is under the threshold for inheritance tax)

I'm the executor and the estate will be coming to my self and my brother.

Does anyone have experience at all and can share if it was straight forward to do.... I really cant see what the charges from solicitor will get me when Its a really easy estate to administer.

Any advice appreciated.

Thanks

[bennno]

Have you obtained some alternative quotes?

[omniflow]

You haven't mentioned whether or not there is a will.

If there is, then I can confirm that it is extremely easy. A couple of forms to fill in (possibly only the one), a fee to pay, some waiting and then you'll have the grant of probate. Absolutely zero reason to pay anyone £4K.

If there's no will, then it might be harder, but I have no personal experience of that so can't say for definite.

[eliot]

If there's a will and you are the sole executor and there's no IHT to pay it's pretty straightforward, in fact i believe it's got even easier if you are below the IHT limit with a simple declaration or something.
I did my late mothers in 6 weeks, two weeks of that was waiting for the solicitor to find and resign from the will (in order that i could do it myself).

[Laup99]

Hey,

Yes had several quotes. All around the 4k mark (most crage % of estate )

Yep... have a Will and all paper work needed. It seems very easy.

[eliot]

yeh - if you are methodical, keep notes and ideally a spreadsheet detailing all transactions it's pretty easy to do.
I used my personal bank account, which is fine - but people do recommend creating a separate account for receiving and sending money - because it's easier to keep track and not mix money up.


Steps from memory:
Get the death cert (get a few extra copies if you can)
Inform all utilities,insurance, banks etc (when calling organisations, google their "bereavement number" - that avoids all the giving your ID of a dead person and they are typically very helpful and understanding)
get the will
Get the property valued (dont just guess)
Work out the value of all other assets (possessions & savings)
Apply for probate - you have to post the original will, so get a certified copied or a notaries copy made just in case it gets lost.
You cannot apply for probate until you get clearance from HMRC (a reference number) that there's nothing due and that has to be put on the probate application.




Once probate is granted;
Sell the house
Put a notice in the London gazette asking for any creditors to come forward - there's a statutory period you need to wait, 3-6 months iirc
Sell assets (house/cars)

Finalise the estate - i.e. you have all money in, you have paid off all debts:
EDIT>
At the end of the process you'll need to prepare the Estate's final account to show a summary of all :
the income--generally, what's been received by the disposal of assets, interest thereon, etc
and all the outgoings--generally, all administration costs (including your own), probate fee, IHT if any, 3rd party fees eg funeral directors, and the
distribution to beneficiaries

distribute the remaining money to the beneficiaries

keep all your notes as a record.

Edited by eliot on Wednesday 13th March 11:56

[alscar]

If the affairs are all as you say then diy is the way to go.
I am currently acting as Executor for a relative who previously I was acting for under LPA and as with you , house already sold and money in 2 places so would have cheerfully gone diy.
Unfortunately her assets also included an incoming inheritance and more importantly music royalties from her late husband so at that stage diy seemed painful especially dealing with the royalty companies and HMRC so engaged a solicitor which for their £3,500 charge seems sensible.
Good luck in your case.

[Sheepshanks]

Laup99 said:

Hey,

Yes had several quotes. All around the 4k mark (most crage % of estate )

Yep... have a Will and all paper work needed. It seems very easy.

A justification I've seen is that solicitors have to pay for insurance as apercentage based on the value of the estate.

I've been an Executor once, for my mothers estate and that was very straightforward as she was in a care home and had sold her house, and was below IHT levels. I took part in a beta trial for online IHT declaration - I imagine that's normal now.

It was quite laborious as she had multiple saving accounts and insurance policies etc, but another one I was involved in where a solicitor was Executor I still had to do provide all that sort of info anyway.

[Doofus]

There was a very brief piece about this on Morning Live on BBC1 this morning. It'll be on iPlayer, if you can stand to watch it.

[Far Cough]

It's simple and no need to pay an extortionate amount of money for a straightforward case like you have described. The solicitor will only fill out the same form as you and still need all the information you have anyway.

Even if there is an IHT obligation it's still easy. The tax man wants his money first and the probate office get that confirmation internally before releasing probate.

As mentioned above. Just work through methodically and keep records and scans of everything...... Good luck

[The Leaper]

eliot said:

yeh - if you are methodical, keep notes and ideally a spreadsheet detailing all transactions it's pretty easy to do.
I used my personal bank account, which is fine - but people do recommend creating a separate account for receiving and sending money - because it's easier to keep track and not mix money up.


Steps from memory:
Get the death cert (get a few extra copies if you can)
inform all utilities and banks etc (when calling organisations, google their "bereavement number" - that avoids all the giving your ID of a dead person and they are typically very helpful and understanding)
get the will
get the property valued (dont just guess)
work out the value of all other assets (possessions & savings)
apply for probate - you have to post the original will, so get a certified copied or a notaries copy made just in case it gets lost


Once probate is granted;
sell the house
put a notice in the London gazette asking for any creditors to come forward - there's a statutory period you need to wait, 3-6 months iirc
sell assets (house/cars)
finalise the estate - i.e. you have all money in, you have paid off all debts
distribute the remaining money to the beneficiaries

keep all your notes as a record.

I have done the job as executor DIY 6 or 7 times for family members, not for several years though. Always been a Will, otherwise I would not do the work.

The post above is a good quick summary of what's required, with one major omission: at the end of the process you'll need to prepare the Estate's final account to show a summary of all :

• the income--generally, what's been received by the disposal of assets, interest thereon, etc
• and all the outgoings--generally, all administration costs (including your own), probate fee, IHT if any, 3rd party fees eg funeral directors, and the distribution to beneficiaries

Essential you keep all records. I used spreadsheets for all transactions. The accounts will then be very straightforward, just entering totals. The beneficiaries are entitled to see these accounts, quite right too!

R.

[eliot]

The Leaper said:

I have done the job as executor DIY 6 or 7 times for family members, not for several years though. Always been a Will, otherwise I would not do the work.

The post above is a good quick summary of what's required, with one major omission: at the end of the process you'll need to prepare the Estate's final account to show a summary of all :

• the income--generally, what's been received by the disposal of assets, interest thereon, etc
• and all the outgoings--generally, all administration costs (including your own), probate fee, IHT if any, 3rd party fees eg funeral directors, and the distribution to beneficiaries

Essential you keep all records. I used spreadsheets for all transactions. The accounts will then be very straightforward, just entering totals. The beneficiaries are entitled to see these accounts, quite right too!

R.

Indeed - I've edit my post to include that step for the benefit of searchers.

[Sheepshanks]

eliot said:

Indeed - I've edit my post to include that step for the benefit of searchers.

You also have to get IHT clearance before you can start probate.

[eliot]

Sheepshanks said:

eliot said:

Indeed - I've edit my post to include that step for the benefit of searchers.

You also have to get IHT clearance before you can start probate.

Agreed - will edit.

[Sheepshanks]

eliot said:

Sheepshanks said:

eliot said:

Indeed - I've edit my post to include that step for the benefit of searchers.

You also have to get IHT clearance before you can start probate.

Agreed - will edit.

..actually - looks like you don't need to even report the value to HMRC any more if there's no IHT due. Some other conditions exist that may still require it to be reported.

I don't think this thread should be used a reference anyway. I'm sure the OP has already discovered it, but the Governemt page will step people through the processes: https://www.gov.uk/when-someone-dies

There might not even need to be Probate - the Governent was leaning on banks to be more relaxed about the amounts they would release without Probate.

[Laup99]

Hi Everyone,

First off thanks so much for your replys. I thought it should be straightforward but just needed some reassurances. Really useful.

I will start this weekend and do it myself. As I mentioned. All simple my end. All monies in one bank with 2 accounts and nothing else to chase (insurance, debts, shares etc)

Have all the paper work required.

One more thing.... the only people I have to now contact is the bank (I had POE on this and my name was on the account ) I'm assuming that once I have informed that will then be frozen. Once probate is granted will the bank be informed and monies sent to my self to distribute (which is essentially myself any way and the other half to my brother )

Funeral costs I moved monies across and using that rather than wait for probate as an fyi.

Thanks all

[davek_964]

Sheepshanks said:

There might not even need to be Probate - the Governent was leaning on banks to be more relaxed about the amounts they would release without Probate.

It was 11 years ago, so maybe things have changed but :

My mums estate was similar - no property, well below IHT threshold. I believed that I had to fill some HMRC forms in, but wasn't clear on one section so called HMRC. The person I spoke to said : If there is no IHT, you don't need to do probate.

So I didn't.

Banks (a few different ones) etc. all asked if probate was complete : I answered that it wasn't needed. They were all happy with that.
Pensions etc. all happy.

I had absolutely zero problems by not having probate - death certificates were all I needed.

[alscar]

Laup99 said:

One more thing.... the only people I have to now contact is the bank (I had POE on this and my name was on the account ) I'm assuming that once I have informed that will then be frozen. Once probate is granted will the bank be informed and monies sent to my self to distribute (which is essentially myself any way and the other half to my brother )

Funeral costs I moved monies across and using that rather than wait for probate as an fyi.

Thanks all

Yes once informed by you the account will then be frozen.
I would guess that once you have obtained probate it will be down to you to inform the Bank.

[Sheepshanks]

davek_964 said:

It was 11 years ago, so maybe things have changed but :

My mums estate was similar - no property, well below IHT threshold. I believed that I had to fill some HMRC forms in, but wasn't clear on one section so called HMRC. The person I spoke to said : If there is no IHT, you don't need to do probate.

So I didn't.

Banks (a few different ones) etc. all asked if probate was complete : I answered that it wasn't needed. They were all happy with that.
Pensions etc. all happy.

I had absolutely zero problems by not having probate - death certificates were all I needed.

What scale af amounts re you talking about? It's down to the bank's discretion and, from NatWst in our case, we got numbers of £15K, £25K and £50K as their probate thresholds depending on who we spoke to. Mum had £150K so there was no serious discussion about it. I was surprised that, even with Grant of Probate, they still wanted to see the original Will. Once they had all that, they transferred the money to me (as Executor) and I dished it out.

I've read Premium Bonds (I suppose any NS&I product) are the most difficult - they want probate is it's more than £5K.

[alscar]

davek_964 said:

Sheepshanks said:

There might not even need to be Probate - the Governent was leaning on banks to be more relaxed about the amounts they would release without Probate.

It was 11 years ago, so maybe things have changed but :

My mums estate was similar - no property, well below IHT threshold. I believed that I had to fill some HMRC forms in, but wasn't clear on one section so called HMRC. The person I spoke to said : If there is no IHT, you don't need to do probate.

So I didn't.

Banks (a few different ones) etc. all asked if probate was complete : I answered that it wasn't needed. They were all happy with that.
Pensions etc. all happy.

I had absolutely zero problems by not having probate - death certificates were all I needed.

The need for probate seems very much to be down to each individual Financial institution.
My MIL passed away a few months ago and whilst she had left everything to her husband some Banks asked for a probate certificate as the amount was in excess of £5k , some £25k and some 0.
Aviva when he cashed in some bonds in her name sent him the money by return of his initial phone call and after he had sent them a scanned copy of her death certificate.