Charge on property - deceased
Discussion
1995: AmEx put a charge on a family member's property for failure to pay their CC bill, c£8-9k. The family member has died, the long term (unmarried) partner is trying to transfer the property (value c£100-110k) into her name but the solicitor is advising that the charge presents a problem.
The partner has no tangible income, no tangible savings, she doesn't want to sell the property (home) and in around 20 years the property reverts back to the freeholder.
Can the charge remain in place if there's no cash transaction - then when the leasehold expires the property goes back to the freeholder?
And any ideas what a good way forward is, the partner very worried about being forced to sell and become homeless. Would AmEx be likely to write off the 30+ year old debt.
Help much appreciated.
The partner has no tangible income, no tangible savings, she doesn't want to sell the property (home) and in around 20 years the property reverts back to the freeholder.
Can the charge remain in place if there's no cash transaction - then when the leasehold expires the property goes back to the freeholder?
And any ideas what a good way forward is, the partner very worried about being forced to sell and become homeless. Would AmEx be likely to write off the 30+ year old debt.
Help much appreciated.
Legal advise needed.
Example when we went to sell my late parents house we found a charge on it from a old Britannia mortgage from 1987 when they had an extension done. For some reason it was never done. Week or so later solicitor sorted it and it was removed, I think it was so quick as I actually had paperwork to show the mortgage was settled though.
Example when we went to sell my late parents house we found a charge on it from a old Britannia mortgage from 1987 when they had an extension done. For some reason it was never done. Week or so later solicitor sorted it and it was removed, I think it was so quick as I actually had paperwork to show the mortgage was settled though.
The charge is over the property and remains in place unless and until the lender is paid off. Death of one joint owner or even death of all owners makes no difference, the charge remains in place.
Nobody, including the executors of deceased owner(s), can sell that property without paying off the charge. Neither can the property be transferred in any other way, for instance by gift, without paying off the charge.
The charge is "secured on the property" which means, quite literally, attached to it.
Nobody, including the executors of deceased owner(s), can sell that property without paying off the charge. Neither can the property be transferred in any other way, for instance by gift, without paying off the charge.
The charge is "secured on the property" which means, quite literally, attached to it.
Just to add, if a charge is secured on a leasehold interest in a property (i.e. the tenant's lease as opposed to freeholder's reversion) then when the lease expires that leasehold interest comes to an end - ceases to exist - and the charge evaporates into thin air. However, it's the charge that evaporates and not the debt which the charge was put in place to secure. So the bank can still chase any owner, or their estate, for the amount owed. Obviously if the leaseholder or the leaseholder's estate has no assets there's nothing for the bank to recover and the bank will lose out.
chucklebutty said:
1995: AmEx put a charge on a family member's property for failure to pay their CC bill, c£8-9k.
Looking at those figures and the impact of 30 years compound interest at AmEx interest rates the size of the "secured debt" must by now be massive. Any remaining value in the leasehold interest will almost certainly belong to AmEx alone. I doubt the unmarried partner is looking at any value at all.On the other hand, unless someone tells AmEx the debtor has died or tries to transfer the property it seems to me the status quo would continue until expiry of the lease...
"On the other hand, unless someone tells AmEx the debtor has died or tries to transfer the property it seems to me the status quo would continue until expiry of the lease..." interesting option, there's no mortgage. just the charge.
Is the charge a load attracting interest once it became a charge for the £8k, is it frozen at that point? The charge hasn't grown on the registry...
Is the charge a load attracting interest once it became a charge for the £8k, is it frozen at that point? The charge hasn't grown on the registry...
The words "mortgage" and "charge" mean effectively the same thing.
Presumably the amount outstanding was £8k at the time the charge was put in place. I'll be astounded if interest hasn't been running since that date and is also covered by the charge - you'd need to read the full wording on the Land Registry and look at AmEx T's&C's to find out for certain.
Compare: If you have a £100k mortgage on your house and don't make any payments for a couple of years you can't get that mortgage redeemed just by paying back the £100k. You'd have to catch up the missing instalments, plus additional interest on them, as well.
Presumably the amount outstanding was £8k at the time the charge was put in place. I'll be astounded if interest hasn't been running since that date and is also covered by the charge - you'd need to read the full wording on the Land Registry and look at AmEx T's&C's to find out for certain.
Compare: If you have a £100k mortgage on your house and don't make any payments for a couple of years you can't get that mortgage redeemed just by paying back the £100k. You'd have to catch up the missing instalments, plus additional interest on them, as well.
chucklebutty said:
"On the other hand, unless someone tells AmEx the debtor has died or tries to transfer the property it seems to me the status quo would continue until expiry of the lease..." interesting option, there's no mortgage. just the charge.
Is the charge a load attracting interest once it became a charge for the £8k, is it frozen at that point? The charge hasn't grown on the registry...
Was the debt to amex still outstanding at the point of death?Is the charge a load attracting interest once it became a charge for the £8k, is it frozen at that point? The charge hasn't grown on the registry...
Agent57 said:
"the solicitor is advising that the charge presents a problem."
Is the solicitor able to give more information / advice without charging a fortune? That's what solicitors are for.
He's said there would be 30 years of accruing interest - we're going to leave everything as-is and ride out the last 20 years of the leasehold. Partner will be in 70's by then and could've inherited a half stake in her parental home by then...kicking the can down the road for a couple of decades at least.Is the solicitor able to give more information / advice without charging a fortune? That's what solicitors are for.
Thanks, Panamax. Helpful advice for an approach...
Mr Pointy said:
Blown2CV said:
sell the house, clear the debt with the proceeds, enjoy the rest... what's the issue
They can't sell the house for a start. Then there's no guarantee the proceeds will cover the outstanding charge plus interest.Blown2CV said:
Mr Pointy said:
Blown2CV said:
sell the house, clear the debt with the proceeds, enjoy the rest... what's the issue
They can't sell the house for a start. Then there's no guarantee the proceeds will cover the outstanding charge plus interest.Gassing Station | Finance | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff