Those paid-for "expert" consulting calls - thoughts?
Discussion
I have a question on something that seems to be coming up more and more often and wanted to gather thoughts and opinions on it.
A few times I receive these emails from US firms, usually investment firms, but via an "experts" agency who say that they'll pay a few hundred for an hour's phonecall to consult on certain companies and what we see in their market.
Has anyone dealt with these before, any particular risks to be aware of aside from the usual material non-public bit?
Thanks in advance
A few times I receive these emails from US firms, usually investment firms, but via an "experts" agency who say that they'll pay a few hundred for an hour's phonecall to consult on certain companies and what we see in their market.
Has anyone dealt with these before, any particular risks to be aware of aside from the usual material non-public bit?
Thanks in advance
Mr_Megalomaniac said:
Has anyone dealt with these before, any particular risks to be aware of aside from the usual material non-public bit?
There are very few industries where there aren’t proper consultants able to provide market/trend intelligence. The issue is that they’re expensive and can’t provide intel that is genuinely confidential (either they won’t know it or won’t disclose it). Research agencies shouldn’t be asking for info on your own company, but the issue tends to be that the knowledge they’re after is generally quite sensitive:if you’re senior within a firm then question whether it’s prudent to be seen as someone who will have a chat freely about that sort of thing for a relatively small sum, in any event your contract may/may not allow it.
Tbh, whenever I’ve had these sorts of requests I’ve always been of the view that a sensible call requires transparency about who the client is, questions in advance, some proper prep and the ability to bin the call if it stray into territory that it shouldn’t. As a result (and taking into account the time needed to sort all that) it’s neither an hours work nor anything close to an acceptable rate for the type of specialised info they always appear to be after.
LooneyTunes said:
Mr_Megalomaniac said:
Has anyone dealt with these before, any particular risks to be aware of aside from the usual material non-public bit?
There are very few industries where there aren’t proper consultants able to provide market/trend intelligence. The issue is that they’re expensive and can’t provide intel that is genuinely confidential (either they won’t know it or won’t disclose it). Research agencies shouldn’t be asking for info on your own company, but the issue tends to be that the knowledge they’re after is generally quite sensitive:if you’re senior within a firm then question whether it’s prudent to be seen as someone who will have a chat freely about that sort of thing for a relatively small sum, in any event your contract may/may not allow it.
Tbh, whenever I’ve had these sorts of requests I’ve always been of the view that a sensible call requires transparency about who the client is, questions in advance, some proper prep and the ability to bin the call if it stray into territory that it shouldn’t. As a result (and taking into account the time needed to sort all that) it’s neither an hours work nor anything close to an acceptable rate for the type of specialised info they always appear to be after.
I'd assumed it would require a fair bit of prep so when I have responded the one time I set a high hourly rate but naturally after that they didn't respond. I think your point regarding the level of prudence is very valid and definitely something to consider as to what optics it would create.
Thanks!
My old boss does this kind of thing - just providing general industry trend type of info for analysts etc. they last 30 mins but can be extended.
He’s the kind of person who can just talk absolute nonsense off the top of his head for hours though, yet still sound reasonably convincing. He wouldn’t do any prep.
He’s the kind of person who can just talk absolute nonsense off the top of his head for hours though, yet still sound reasonably convincing. He wouldn’t do any prep.
I’ve done a few over the years, and have done many more as a client over the years.
The clients are typically investment funds (interested in buying a company in a specific market), or a consulting firm doing a project for a company in a specific market. (The latter may or may not be linked to some investment/M&A activity).
Often the client will be doing 10-20 of these calls, with the aim of forming an overall picture (rather than placing too much weight on any individual call).
Typically the client will be paying about $1k/hr for the call; so the expert on the other end can normally get about half that.
The client only wants to speak to real experts and will typically have very specific questions. So if you’re approached, these should be things you know about (and shouldn’t need to spend time preparing for). If that’s not you, decline the call.
Equally, there are strict rules about what you can/cannot talk about, the most golden being “do not break any confidentiality rules you may be bound by”; in the vast majority of cases, this will exclude you from any calls in relation to your current employment.
The clients are typically investment funds (interested in buying a company in a specific market), or a consulting firm doing a project for a company in a specific market. (The latter may or may not be linked to some investment/M&A activity).
Often the client will be doing 10-20 of these calls, with the aim of forming an overall picture (rather than placing too much weight on any individual call).
Typically the client will be paying about $1k/hr for the call; so the expert on the other end can normally get about half that.
The client only wants to speak to real experts and will typically have very specific questions. So if you’re approached, these should be things you know about (and shouldn’t need to spend time preparing for). If that’s not you, decline the call.
Equally, there are strict rules about what you can/cannot talk about, the most golden being “do not break any confidentiality rules you may be bound by”; in the vast majority of cases, this will exclude you from any calls in relation to your current employment.
I too get invited to these things all of the time - I wouldn't do one if it requires any information that could be considered secret from a business / role that I have worked for.
That said, I have responded to a few where they have been looking for "people who have used software X", or "people who have a knowledge of market Y", where I have the knowledge and could share it without disclosing any trade secrets - I have however never been selected for one of these.
I have been on the other side of it though - We paid a company to do this type of market research for us (From memory it was about $20K for 6 interviews) - They went and sourced 50 or so profiles of some fairly well connected people that would sit on a call for an hour and and we picked 6 to go ahead with.
The market research company then ran the call armed with the questions that we wanted to be asked - we weren't allowed to know who the people were as such - i.e. no names / email addresses and some were better than others at hiding their current employer.
We joined the call platform as a hidden participant and could listen in to the whole call live, and had a back channel to the person asking the questions so that we could steer the conversation.
It was quite interesting / useful and as the marketing company did all the legwork of finding the right profiles (which would have taken us quite a while), probably actually not that expensive for what it was.
That said, I have responded to a few where they have been looking for "people who have used software X", or "people who have a knowledge of market Y", where I have the knowledge and could share it without disclosing any trade secrets - I have however never been selected for one of these.
I have been on the other side of it though - We paid a company to do this type of market research for us (From memory it was about $20K for 6 interviews) - They went and sourced 50 or so profiles of some fairly well connected people that would sit on a call for an hour and and we picked 6 to go ahead with.
The market research company then ran the call armed with the questions that we wanted to be asked - we weren't allowed to know who the people were as such - i.e. no names / email addresses and some were better than others at hiding their current employer.
We joined the call platform as a hidden participant and could listen in to the whole call live, and had a back channel to the person asking the questions so that we could steer the conversation.
It was quite interesting / useful and as the marketing company did all the legwork of finding the right profiles (which would have taken us quite a while), probably actually not that expensive for what it was.
Edited by fat80b on Wednesday 26th February 10:43
Sheepshanks said:
My old boss does this kind of thing - just providing general industry trend type of info for analysts etc. they last 30 mins but can be extended.
He’s the kind of person who can just talk absolute nonsense off the top of his head for hours though, yet still sound reasonably convincing. He wouldn’t do any prep.
I think that's the best strategy. Which is why I would also be very wary of what these companies say they can offer back to companies in terms of market insights. Generally, it's just an amalgamation of different people's personal opinions and views and pretty worthless...He’s the kind of person who can just talk absolute nonsense off the top of his head for hours though, yet still sound reasonably convincing. He wouldn’t do any prep.
Hi
Have done a fair few of these calls and found the process very straight forward and well rewarded. Registered with 4 or 5 of the companies (eg GLG, 3rd Bridge, Alphasite etc), they all had a version of compliance training (about 1 hour, online) to go through - what you should and shouldn't talk about, what is confidential info etc
When setting up each call I would get an outline of what the call was about from GLG (the 'client' was often a consultancy firm looking at the sector I had experience in or a firm looking to make an investment in the space), there would be some compliance questions from the 'client' before the start (10 mins max) and another reminder not to talk about confidential info etc and then the call would happen.
I'd usually do 30 mins max prep for each call (just to collect my thoughts, have some relevant stats to hand etc) and often found the calls would go the full hour and frequently a follow up call would occur. The 'clients' were always very conscious of ensuring they didn't ask for confidential info etc
At the end of the call might get a follow up email / call from GLG etc to check in, and confirm billing - money in my back a few weeks later
Did this for 3 or 4 years, set my rate around $400 / 500 per hour and found I enjoyed the calls and enjoyed the cash! One thing to note is that you may need your employers permission (or at least be aware) for this - my employer was fine about it.
Hope that helps
Have done a fair few of these calls and found the process very straight forward and well rewarded. Registered with 4 or 5 of the companies (eg GLG, 3rd Bridge, Alphasite etc), they all had a version of compliance training (about 1 hour, online) to go through - what you should and shouldn't talk about, what is confidential info etc
When setting up each call I would get an outline of what the call was about from GLG (the 'client' was often a consultancy firm looking at the sector I had experience in or a firm looking to make an investment in the space), there would be some compliance questions from the 'client' before the start (10 mins max) and another reminder not to talk about confidential info etc and then the call would happen.
I'd usually do 30 mins max prep for each call (just to collect my thoughts, have some relevant stats to hand etc) and often found the calls would go the full hour and frequently a follow up call would occur. The 'clients' were always very conscious of ensuring they didn't ask for confidential info etc
At the end of the call might get a follow up email / call from GLG etc to check in, and confirm billing - money in my back a few weeks later
Did this for 3 or 4 years, set my rate around $400 / 500 per hour and found I enjoyed the calls and enjoyed the cash! One thing to note is that you may need your employers permission (or at least be aware) for this - my employer was fine about it.
Hope that helps
brickwall said:
The client only wants to speak to real experts and will typically have very specific questions. So if you’re approached, these should be things you know about (and shouldn’t need to spend time preparing for). If that’s not you, decline the call.
If it's a technically complex area, you sometimes can't avoid preparation.For the subjects I get approached about a brief response would establish you knew what you were talking about but the client probably wouldn't get much from it (unless it was a simple validation of something they thought they already knew). Could easily end up going down into considerable detail that if there hasn't been advance prep to pitch it at the right level/structure for the (non-expert) audience would be of limited benefit.
One other consideration: tax. I'd wager that a lot of these don't get declared but tax is has a significant bearing on overall rate.
Personally I take the view that they're not worth doing but if someone wants to commission a proper slug of time (at least a couple of days) then that's an option to discuss.
Darlo74 said:
Sheepshanks said:
My old boss does this kind of thing - just providing general industry trend type of info for analysts etc. they last 30 mins but can be extended.
He’s the kind of person who can just talk absolute nonsense off the top of his head for hours though, yet still sound reasonably convincing. He wouldn’t do any prep.
I think that's the best strategy. Which is why I would also be very wary of what these companies say they can offer back to companies in terms of market insights. Generally, it's just an amalgamation of different people's personal opinions and views and pretty worthless...He’s the kind of person who can just talk absolute nonsense off the top of his head for hours though, yet still sound reasonably convincing. He wouldn’t do any prep.
From the client side they can be quite useful, and the cost isn’t that much in the bigger context.
In one week you could spend 20 intensive hours asking a very structured set of questions to 20 industry experts/veterans. At the end of that week in all likelihood you will have a pretty good picture of the market dynamics. And (perhaps more crucially) you’ll also have decent idea of where you need to target any further research and diligence.
A lot of the time when I do the calls I’ll often be relaying info that is actually publicly available, but it’s a pain to get and you need to know where to look. Having someone who can point you to everything in 1 hour is very valuable.
If you’re thinking of spending $1bn buying a company, then spending $20k like this at the start of the process is time and money very well spent.
Equally, if you’re paying McKinsey/Bain/BCG $200k per week to do some review for you, then an extra $20k on the bill is won’t make much of a difference, but it is likely to improve the quality of the outputs you’ll get.
In one week you could spend 20 intensive hours asking a very structured set of questions to 20 industry experts/veterans. At the end of that week in all likelihood you will have a pretty good picture of the market dynamics. And (perhaps more crucially) you’ll also have decent idea of where you need to target any further research and diligence.
A lot of the time when I do the calls I’ll often be relaying info that is actually publicly available, but it’s a pain to get and you need to know where to look. Having someone who can point you to everything in 1 hour is very valuable.
If you’re thinking of spending $1bn buying a company, then spending $20k like this at the start of the process is time and money very well spent.
Equally, if you’re paying McKinsey/Bain/BCG $200k per week to do some review for you, then an extra $20k on the bill is won’t make much of a difference, but it is likely to improve the quality of the outputs you’ll get.
Gassing Station | Finance | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff