Divorce settlement advice

[The Green Triangle]

Hi everyone,
Looks like I'm going to be going through a divorce. I'd love some help on where to set my expectations as I'm pretty green to this all. My wife has asked to sit down and discuss our finance and we would like to go down this route amicably if possible. I'll list some facts below:

- Region: UK, England
- I am the Male 43
- Wife 42
- Married 15 years
- 2 children 9 years and 13 years
- No mortgage, house paid off
- House value: 500-550K
- Contents 50K?
- No third parties involved, just grown apart over the years. Her decision. I'm not wholly surprised, but still knocked the wind out of me.

My Assets total circa 590K made up of:
- I have a stocks and shares ISA of around 260K
- I have a stock trading account worth around 35K
- I have pensions worth around 271K
- I have 2 cars worth approximately 20K (One of them was pre-maritial and is worth 15K)
- I work full time my salary is 68K / annum

I'm not 100% on my wife's position yet as we haven't had the sit down, but:

Assume wife's assets are total of 80K made up of:
- Assume my wife has savings of 30K
- Her car 10K
- Pension 40 K
- My wife works part time, self employed
- She earns something like 20-25K per annum

The 2 children are very close to mum so i expect she will be the main parent and will remain in the family home. I would like to have them minimum 2 days/nights a week, although I know the elder one particularly wont want that and the younger one will just follow the older one. It's tough, but I'm guessing i won't get much say on this?

How terrible is it looking for me? I have always tried to save and do the best with the finances. I pay for pretty much everything in the house, so bills, food etc. I cover completely.

- Should I tell her everything now when we sit down? Or should i seek some professional advice first?
- What kind of % split can i reasonably expect?
- As quite a bit of my assets are in stocks and pensions, how does it work with the point at which i provide these numbers? Markets are quite volatile at the moment, so if they go up or down what happens in the meantime?
- This is a major kick in the nuts for me. Am I completely stuffed for the future??
- Any other advice?

Thank you for your time in reading this all and any advice or hope your're able to give on my situation...

[Muzzer79]

The Green Triangle said:

Hi everyone,
Looks like I'm going to be going through a divorce. I'd love some help on where to set my expectations as I'm pretty green to this all. My wife has asked to sit down and discuss our finance and we would like to go down this route amicably if possible. I'll list some facts below:

- Region: UK, England
- I am the Male 43
- Wife 42
- Married 15 years
- 2 children 9 years and 13 years
- No mortgage, house paid off
- House value: 500-550K
- Contents 50K?
- No third parties involved, just grown apart over the years. Her decision. I'm not wholly surprised, but still knocked the wind out of me.

My Assets total circa 590K made up of:
- I have a stocks and shares ISA of around 260K
- I have a stock trading account worth around 35K
- I have pensions worth around 271K
- I have 2 cars worth approximately 20K (One of them was pre-maritial and is worth 15K)
- I work full time my salary is 68K / annum

I'm not 100% on my wife's position yet as we haven't had the sit down, but:

Assume wife's assets are total of 80K made up of:
- Assume my wife has savings of 30K
- Her car 10K
- Pension 40 K
- My wife works part time, self employed
- She earns something like 20-25K per annum

The 2 children are very close to mum so i expect she will be the main parent and will remain in the family home. I would like to have them minimum 2 days/nights a week, although I know the elder one particularly wont want that and the younger one will just follow the older one. It's tough, but I'm guessing i won't get much say on this?

How terrible is it looking for me? I have always tried to save and do the best with the finances. I pay for pretty much everything in the house, so bills, food etc. I cover completely.

- Should I tell her everything now when we sit down? Or should i seek some professional advice first?
- What kind of % split can i reasonably expect?
- As quite a bit of my assets are in stocks and pensions, how does it work with the point at which i provide these numbers? Markets are quite volatile at the moment, so if they go up or down what happens in the meantime?
- This is a major kick in the nuts for me. Am I completely stuffed for the future??
- Any other advice?

Thank you for your time in reading this all and any advice or hope your're able to give on my situation...

I think your first mistake is to assume that 'you' have assets and 'your wife' has assets. You also mention pre-marital assets.

You've been married for 15 years and share two children. You have marital assets, that belong to the both of you.

The Green Triangle said:

How terrible is it looking for me? I have always tried to save and do the best with the finances. I pay for pretty much everything in the house, so bills, food etc. I cover completely.

You need to think long term. Your income has been the foundation of your family, do not expect to step away from it completely.

Similarly, your wife has worked part-time, presumably to support your children. Expect therefore that her 'share' will be more than yours, especially if she is retaining majority custody.

The Green Triangle said:

- Should I tell her everything now when we sit down? Or should i seek some professional advice first?

Tell her everything as in.........? Financially? You mean she doesn't know what your mutual assets are?

There's an argument to say she'll find out eventually anyway.
There's another argument to say that you should hide what you can if she doesn't know about it.....

Suggest seeking professional advice.

The Green Triangle said:

- What kind of % split can i reasonably expect?

How long is a piece of string? Really depends on the detail

The Green Triangle said:

- This is a major kick in the nuts for me. Am I completely stuffed for the future??

Completely stuffed? By no means is this a given.

I know of at least two people who divorced at a similar age. Another was older. All, at the time, felt it was a financial disaster.

But life has a way of getting you back on your feet. You're clearly quite astute with money, there's no reason why this can't continue for the remaining 20-odd years of your working life.

You won't end up with nothing, but you also won't be in nearly as good a position as you are now. The sooner you accept that, the better - it's a reality of divorce.

Some people will come along in this thread and tell you you're absolutely screwed and will be living in a run down bedsit in 6 months, staring at mould on the walls whilst your wife is in your cosy house with a new fella living off your hard-earned.

This is very much worse-case scenario. Do not think it applies to everyone.

[Gargamel]

Tough spot, sorry to hear this.

You don't really have a your assets and her assets - you have marital assets. so mentally just make the switch.

Your goals should be (IMHO)

1, let her have the house.
2, let her have the depreciating assets (things in the house, car etc)
3, try not to pay spousal maintenance, even if it means a slightly bigger assets transfer.
4, Agree to voluntary child maintenance - based on the calculator - and of course how much you have the kids. If you want this low or 0% then have the kids 50% of the time.
5. Try to keep 100% of your pension.

The rule is 50:50, most Judges won't stray too far from that on assets splits, so your primary goal is to reduce the drag on your future earnings.

Good luck

[Peterpetrole]

Not specifically about your situation OP, just saying that it would be very unusual for one party, in a presumably fairly comfortable financial position, to ask for a divorce when there is "no one else involved".

[Abc321]

Very sorry to hear OP.

I'm not married but my parents are/were divorced. This was 30 years ago nearly but my Dad kept the pensions and my Mum kept the house, custody was with Mum but we saw Dad 2 nights a week.

All I can say is its very VERY frustrating you have built that kind of wealth and there is even argument to have that 'taken away from you'. I hear the thoughts which say man can only accumulate such wealth because wife has brought kids up, but I'm sorry, I don't buy it.

[fat80b]

Gargamel said:

Tough spot, sorry to hear this.

You don't really have a your assets and her assets - you have marital assets. so mentally just make the switch.

Your goals should be (IMHO)

1, let her have the house.
2, let her have the depreciating assets (things in the house, car etc)
3, try not to pay spousal maintenance, even if it means a slightly bigger assets transfer.
4, Agree to voluntary child maintenance - based on the calculator - and of course how much you have the kids. If you want this low or 0% then have the kids 50% of the time.
5. Try to keep 100% of your pension.

The rule is 50:50, most Judges won't stray too far from that on assets splits, so your primary goal is to reduce the drag on your future earnings.

Good luck

This makes sense to me. Definitely the case that the assets are marital and have never been "his and hers". If she takes advice, she'll be seeking half of everything plus maintenance split according to custody (not unreasonably)...

If I was being a tad selfish, I'd be thinking that I'd want to get the deal done asap - i.e. while stock values are down and the house value is up. If I could walk away with the pension and the stocks and nothing else, I'd probably be relatively OK with that as an outcome.

[alock]

Gargamel said:

3, try not to pay spousal maintenance, even if it means a slightly bigger assets transfer.

This, this, and this again.

Throw money at the problem now to ensure a full clean break. Don't get suckered into the £1/month option as a backup.

[av185]

Happened to me 20 years ago but luckily we saw sense and everything was kept amicable and we sorted it out ourselves no lawyers involved which saved big money and big stress too. I gave my ex wife the benefit of the doubt within reason she kept the property (which she couldn't afford to keep and eventually sold at a loss although the market eased) I kept most other assets including accounts and stock she knew nothing about and we both kept our pensions intact which helped with the overall civility.

So definitely keep it civil between you pays dividends with the children too worse case scenario is acrimony she will then be getting her chums coming from all angles no doubt advising her to lawyer up with the meanest and most expensive in order to royally screw
you over.

Don't forget the clean break many forget if diy route taken.

Hopefully you will get to keep your £15k car as a pre marital asset which broadly should be excluded from the marital pot.

[Muzzer79]

fat80b said:

If I could walk away with the pension and the stocks and nothing else, I'd probably be relatively OK with that as an outcome.

Probably this.

It might taste a bit stty to begin with, but realistically you won't be in a bad position.

[GuigiaroBertone]

Sorry to hear this OP.

Looking at your numbers, how have you managed to built up a net worth of over a million quid (house, ISA, Pension) on a salary of £67k?

Was some of this inherited? If so by who? You, your wife or both?

If you've managed to build in million pound pot in a couple of decades, then I wouldn't worry too much about rebuilding over the next 10-20 years.

[bennno]

I'd have the first sit down without disclosing all that and getting in to specific numbers, better to initially discuss general principles.

The likelyhood is she'd potentially be entitled to

- 50/50 split of all marital assets (savings, investments, assets, pensions etc)
- She gets the home (including your equity in it) until the kids finish education.
- You pay child support and an amount to your wife based on your salary differential.

She might rather have the home entirely her name without a requirement to sell it in the future, which could be a principle to trade off against your investments and / or pension. She might propose selling the house so you've funds to get somewhere to live etc etc.

[leef44]

Peterpetrole said:

Not specifically about your situation OP, just saying that it would be very unusual for one party, in a presumably fairly comfortable financial position, to ask for a divorce when there is "no one else involved".

Just curious on this point. The OP says they've grown apart but if he did not want to get divorced but his OH does, how does that work?

Does the OH have to justify why they are to get divorced or can one party just out of the blue say "I fancy a change I'm leaving"? Surely in which case she would not be justified to get half the assets but less.

Or is my mistake in thinking this logically when divorce is emotional and irrational?

[SydneyBridge]

See what your wife wants and go from there

[okgo]

GuigiaroBertone said:

Sorry to hear this OP.

Looking at your numbers, how have you managed to built up a net worth of over a million quid (house, ISA, Pension) on a salary of £67k?

Was some of this inherited? If so by who? You, your wife or both?

If you've managed to build in million pound pot in a couple of decades, then I wouldn't worry too much about rebuilding over the next 10-20 years.

Quite. This stood out to me also, someone looks to have had had a large cash injection and where it came from is likely quite important in all this?

[The Green Triangle]

Thanks all for your messages. It's school time, so please forgive me for not answering everything back directly straight away, but it has given me a little bit of hope from what I have read so far. I have no idea of what is classed as a 'reasonable split' in these situations. I want to go into this, presently 'amicable' situation with an idea of what i should be willing to give away.

I expect to give her the house. But I am concerned about having to do some sort of blanket 70:30 or worse still 80:20 allocation to her which really wipes me out and leaves me nothing to start up again, or leaves me in a difficult spot.

If I could keep my stocks and pensions, the stocks bit would give me a useful deposit on a new pad which is my primary concerns. I want somewhere nearby'ish that I can still have my kids around as much as they want to, I can have them. I am really in bits over this all and not sure how it play out but thanks everyone for responding. It has raised my chin up a little bit. I took control of my company pensions (consolidating into a SIPP) a few years ago and moved them to equity models compared to the low risk / reward of the original allocations, so they have grown quite well.

I appreciated the 'clean break' and avoiding draws on future income streams such as spousal maintenance and pensions, even if that means giving up more now in any asset split. That makes complete sense.

Someone posted how I've managed to accrue such wealth. A few ways really, we paid off our first house mortgage and then moved to this house. After that one was cleared, I poured all my disposable income into index trackers and have just grown my ISA over the years to where it is now. I did get some family money along the way, and it was always paid into the house or invested, but it wasn't massive amounts.

Yes my stocks and shares ISA has taken a bit of a hit this year with all the trade tariff noise. I've probably lost £30K roughly from where i was in January. How could i capitilise on this? Get everything formally drawn up and put through as practically possible?

Right back to the kids... will check back later this evening. Thanks again all..

[boyse7en]

Peterpetrole said:

Not specifically about your situation OP, just saying that it would be very unusual for one party, in a presumably fairly comfortable financial position, to ask for a divorce when there is "no one else involved".

Not necessarily. I know of two couples who were married for 30 years who got divorced with no "extra" people involved. People can just grow apart when kids grow up or leave home or whatever. The whole "monkey branch" thing is just a misogynistic trope.

For the OP, my advice would be not to try to "hide" anything asset-wise, as you will almost certainly will get found out. Once that happens, the trust disappears and then it becomes a fight between expensive solicitors.

[Chris Peacock]

I can't help but feel we don't have the full financial picture here. The age and salary level don't match the assets. I'm the same age with a higher household income, we live fairly frugally, invest / overpay mortgage etc and couldn't dream of being in that sort of financial position.

Regardless, it's sad to hear of another marriage ending. On the bright side, you're still young enough to start again and be fine (not just financially)

Edited by Chris Peacock on Friday 25th April 16:00

[Vasco]

Try very hard to both be amicable at all times - but be aware that people (often wives!) can and do change without notice.
Financial assets may well all be treated simply as joint assets, whether it suits you or not. A 50/50 split of many things may be possible but it's not going to happen while 2 children are at school/future Uni?
All good options are off if it turns out there's another person lurking - or she decides to employ one of the money chasing nasty group of solicitors.
.

[jock mcsporran]

I went through it at similar age with figures not too far off what you have although slightly different distribution of assets.

Overall it came out at slightly more than 50% and CM payments as per the calculator on Gov website reviewed annually. I have my son 50/50 for the past few years so payments went to zero although she did try to reinstate it at one point with no justification.

As others have said, protect future assets such as pension, ISA’s, stocks and use the house to cover your bill. She’ll probably want the house anyway although mine didn’t so I remortgaged and eventually sold a few years later when house prices had gone up (luck rather than plan).

Your finances will recover if you effectively get a clean break (aside from CM) and there’ll be less reason to have dealings/arguments with her.

Hopefully it stays amicable through the negotiations. Use mediation rather than expensive lawyers for the back and forth to get to an MOU.

[Sheepshanks]

av185 said:

Happened to me 20 years ago but luckily we saw sense and everything was kept amicable and we sorted it out ourselves no lawyers involved which saved big money and big stress too. I gave my ex wife the benefit of the doubt within reason she kept the property (which she couldn't afford to keep and eventually sold at a loss although the market eased) I kept most other assets including accounts and stock she knew nothing about and we both kept our pensions intact which helped with the overall civility..

I don't know if it's a more recent thing than 20yrs ago but a female friend is going though this at the moment - she's the (relatively) high earner and her husband is a bum. She was anxious to get a court approved settlement otherwise the other party can come back at any time in the future and try and reopen financial matters. She was most keen to secure her hefty public sector pension, and has done that.


I also don't get the comments from a couple of posters about not paying ongoing maintenance - she's told us that's a completely separate thing. But she doesn't expect to get anything off him.