Opinion of the financially astute PHs on my man maths.
Discussion
TLDR = Does buying a €42k Caterham ever make a tiny bit of sense?
Im potentially about to share way more into the public domain about my financial situation than i ever thought i would, but here goes.
I live in France, work in Switzerland in as AI proof job as you can get, earn €69k a year after tax, and save about €2k every month. I have no debt. I consider myself comfortably off.
Due to my residency situation it makes no sense to buy a house here.
I have a daily car which is cheap to run, but if it breaks, it would be expensive to fix, (Volvo V60 PHEV) and a cheap to run motorbike VFR1200F.
Now to the bit id like some opinion on, because from those i ask, i almost entirely get people really not understanding why id want to spend that much on something so objectively s
t.
Im extremely tempted to buy a new Caterham 170R. It would be almost entirely financed by borrowing, but my logic is, im youngish (33), at the rate im going i should retire very comfortably and i am not in a position to buy a house, or any other large purchase anyway.
The Caterham should be dead cheap to run, both in terms of depreciation and also in terms of actual running costs.
But on the flip side i feel like its spectacularly irresponsible to buy a toy that expensive.
Whats your views? Especially if you're at retirement age, do you wish you spent/ enjoyed more?
Thanks in advance!
Im potentially about to share way more into the public domain about my financial situation than i ever thought i would, but here goes.
I live in France, work in Switzerland in as AI proof job as you can get, earn €69k a year after tax, and save about €2k every month. I have no debt. I consider myself comfortably off.
Due to my residency situation it makes no sense to buy a house here.
I have a daily car which is cheap to run, but if it breaks, it would be expensive to fix, (Volvo V60 PHEV) and a cheap to run motorbike VFR1200F.
Now to the bit id like some opinion on, because from those i ask, i almost entirely get people really not understanding why id want to spend that much on something so objectively s
t.Im extremely tempted to buy a new Caterham 170R. It would be almost entirely financed by borrowing, but my logic is, im youngish (33), at the rate im going i should retire very comfortably and i am not in a position to buy a house, or any other large purchase anyway.
The Caterham should be dead cheap to run, both in terms of depreciation and also in terms of actual running costs.
But on the flip side i feel like its spectacularly irresponsible to buy a toy that expensive.
Whats your views? Especially if you're at retirement age, do you wish you spent/ enjoyed more?
Thanks in advance!
If it was a cash purchase I'd say do it. Irresponsible toys are good!
But borrowing money costs money. You'll pay interest on the loan and have a depreciating asset too.
You have £2K spare every month. I might consider saving up for a while first.
If it's going to be your only car, how will it work for rain, snow, boot space, seats and all that practical stuff?
But borrowing money costs money. You'll pay interest on the loan and have a depreciating asset too.
You have £2K spare every month. I might consider saving up for a while first.
If it's going to be your only car, how will it work for rain, snow, boot space, seats and all that practical stuff?
Having been in your position, and done the stupid thing, no.
Get a mx5 for 5k and have as much, if not more fun.
Invest the rest of the money in ISAs. It’ll mean you can get a house deposit and some air-height on finances.
Once the nearterm dopamine has worn off of buying a new toy you’re left holding 2 years of finance payments. It’s only ego that has you wanting a caterham over a mx5, they’re both equally fun to drive on road IMO.
I say this as someone with two TVRs and a Diablo who’s currently enjoying a 2001 courtesy Lupo. If you enjoy driving, it’s not really about the car as much as you think. And financially stretching yourself to buy a car that hurts when bills come up is something that I’d never do again or recommend anyone does.
You don’t have to stop all fun to plan ahead, there is a sensible middle ground!
Get a mx5 for 5k and have as much, if not more fun.
Invest the rest of the money in ISAs. It’ll mean you can get a house deposit and some air-height on finances.
Once the nearterm dopamine has worn off of buying a new toy you’re left holding 2 years of finance payments. It’s only ego that has you wanting a caterham over a mx5, they’re both equally fun to drive on road IMO.
I say this as someone with two TVRs and a Diablo who’s currently enjoying a 2001 courtesy Lupo. If you enjoy driving, it’s not really about the car as much as you think. And financially stretching yourself to buy a car that hurts when bills come up is something that I’d never do again or recommend anyone does.
You don’t have to stop all fun to plan ahead, there is a sensible middle ground!
I’m early 40s and, even though I’ve now had 20+ cars, I really wish I’d spent more time trying out cool, sensibly priced things - MX5s, RX8s, hot Clios and Meganes, old Lotuses, maybe even a few V8 barges. I wish I’d played the field a bit rather than keeping one car for a long time. Finance and new cars kills playing the field.
I’ve currently got £100k sunk in a 992 GTS and it brings me no more joy than my £10k Chimaera did - possibly less. I’ll probably keep it another year and then go back to sensibly priced fun.
But I think the key in all this is not being tied by finance as it allows you to chop and change as you please. I’m all for silly purchases, though - you only live once! And some people think “OMG, he’s blown £100k on a car”, which isn’t true. I’m blowing about £12k a year on a car - whether that’s good value or not is another matter, I just justify it by telling myself how much some EV owners are losing.
I’ve currently got £100k sunk in a 992 GTS and it brings me no more joy than my £10k Chimaera did - possibly less. I’ll probably keep it another year and then go back to sensibly priced fun.
But I think the key in all this is not being tied by finance as it allows you to chop and change as you please. I’m all for silly purchases, though - you only live once! And some people think “OMG, he’s blown £100k on a car”, which isn’t true. I’m blowing about £12k a year on a car - whether that’s good value or not is another matter, I just justify it by telling myself how much some EV owners are losing.
Pretty depressing really that everyone is against the idea! But that is why i asked here, i guess.
The issue is, here in France they the ones that look good start at about €10k. Its a lot for a 20 year old car likely riddled with rust (also my garage is 4m long, so it barely fits.)
dingg said:
A 'correction' is ongoing right now, IF it continues for another few weeks lump your 42k into the market for the bounce , buy your Caterham with the profits ,bank the surplus.
Easy isn't it?
Have you seen the news?
Yes, its true, if things keep going down without an actual WW3 my decision will be made for me, the money will get invested.Easy isn't it?
Have you seen the news?
Simpo Two said:
You have £2K spare every month. I might consider saving up for a while first.
Trouble is, i have 4.5 years left on my contract here. If i save for 2 years then i will only have 2 years left on my contract, making the purchase a bit pointless (and expensive).Simpo Two said:
If it's going to be your only car, how will it work for rain, snow, boot space, seats and all that practical stuff?
It wont, the Volvo stays.butchstewie said:
How many months living expenses do you have in the bank if you lose your job tomorrow?
If i went into "I lost my job, pull the belt in" mode, about 6, but I work for an international organisation so work is as close to guaranteed as is possible. Simplied, im not concerned about my emergency fund.butchstewie said:
Roughly how much other savings/investments do you have?
€26k outside of a pension, €100k in pension.stuthemongoose said:
Get a mx5 for 5k and have as much, if not more fun.
Once the nearterm dopamine has worn off of buying a new toy you re left holding 2 years of finance payments. It s only ego that has you wanting a caterham over a mx5, they re both equally fun to drive on road IMO.
I hear what you say. My favourite car was my mk3 MR2.Once the nearterm dopamine has worn off of buying a new toy you re left holding 2 years of finance payments. It s only ego that has you wanting a caterham over a mx5, they re both equally fun to drive on road IMO.
The issue is, here in France they the ones that look good start at about €10k. Its a lot for a 20 year old car likely riddled with rust (also my garage is 4m long, so it barely fits.)
Good position to be in but a 42K Caterham would really need far more disposable than just 'good'.
It's not the running costs, it's the depreciation. I'm sure you could find a nice well specced car for a lot less money, have just as much fun and considerably less pain when you come to move it on.
Sadly there are very few cars that a truly depreciation proof from new.
It's not the running costs, it's the depreciation. I'm sure you could find a nice well specced car for a lot less money, have just as much fun and considerably less pain when you come to move it on.
Sadly there are very few cars that a truly depreciation proof from new.
Rick101 said:
Good position to be in but a 42K Caterham would really need far more disposable than just 'good'.
It's not the running costs, it's the depreciation. I'm sure you could find a nice well specced car for a lot less money, have just as much fun and considerably less pain when you come to move it on.
Sadly there are very few cars that a truly depreciation proof from new.
Really? To me at least the main arguement in favor of the Caterham is the depreciation, in the sense that there appears to be none.It's not the running costs, it's the depreciation. I'm sure you could find a nice well specced car for a lot less money, have just as much fun and considerably less pain when you come to move it on.
Sadly there are very few cars that a truly depreciation proof from new.
Here is a 2018 160S (previous model) for sale for €32k. https://www.leboncoin.fr/ad/voitures/3148525373 I would be shocked if the price new in 2016 was much more than €32k.
Either buy a cheaper Caterham or an Atom. The Atom will will have much lower depreciation
eg this
https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/19676373
is 16 years old and would have been less than £50k new, that's less than £1k depreciation per year
eg this
https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/19676373
is 16 years old and would have been less than £50k new, that's less than £1k depreciation per year
spikeyhead said:
Either buy a cheaper Caterham or an Atom. The Atom will will have much lower depreciation
eg this
https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/19676373
is 16 years old and would have been less than £50k new, that's less than £1k depreciation per year
I wish i was in the UK. The posibilities would be endless. But here in France things like this simply dont exist. Im kinda shocked Caterham even do a road legal model.eg this
https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/19676373
is 16 years old and would have been less than £50k new, that's less than £1k depreciation per year
Besides, if you could somehow get an atom here, it would be worth a ton more than £37k.
Edit to add, cheaper Caterhams dont exist. The cheaper ones are all track only or RHD.
spikeyhead said:
Either buy a cheaper Caterham or an Atom. The Atom will will have much lower depreciation
eg this
https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/19676373
is 16 years old and would have been less than £50k new, that's less than £1k depreciation per year
Or a Westie. At a similar age to the OP, bought a relatively focussed Cossie powered one for less than a mid-range Caterham would have cost. I reckon I'd get back what I paid for it if I sold it tomorrow.eg this
https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/19676373
is 16 years old and would have been less than £50k new, that's less than £1k depreciation per year
As for all of this talk of "corrections"... be careful. "Correction" implies something is inherently and seriously wrong. Such a situation would be very different to one in which market and economic conditions simply change, especially when those changes are event driven.
T697JVS said:
Why not buy a second hand Caterham for about £20k?
You won t see much depreciation on that and it will be as fun as a new one (possibly more so as you won t be so precious about stone chips and the like).
Well for one i am still in France, so they probably wouldnt accept £20k. You won t see much depreciation on that and it will be as fun as a new one (possibly more so as you won t be so precious about stone chips and the like).
Secondly £20k is €23k, which may get you this lovely 1985 Super Sprint with 70000 kms and the steering wheel on the wrong side.
https://www.leboncoin.fr/ad/voitures/2988116173
Honestly, ive looked at everything and you guys in the UK dont know how good you have the second hand car market, the freedom to road register anything with a steering wheel, or the ability to modify.
P.s. here is the full list of Caterhams for sale in France, note that a lot of them are RHD or off road use only.
https://www.leboncoin.fr/recherche?category=2&...
Benbay001 said:
Really? To me at least the main arguement in favor of the Caterham is the depreciation, in the sense that there appears to be none.
If you can buy and sell privately, perhaps. But if you buy from a dealer, you lose. If you p/ex it back, you lose twice.But buying cars - on PH at least - is not all about practicality, it can be about passion, and if you can convert some £££ into pleasure, then as long as you can take the hit and won't have to sell under duress, and it makes you happy, then that's OK.
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