Supporting elderly parent/ multi generational living

[sawman]

Not sure if this should be in finance or home:

MiL has realised that she may need a bit more help at home but is restistant to care home idea. She lives alone and is basically in 1 room in her longstanding family home. She lives 200 miles away. She is dependent on carers several times a day. She is elderly and has outlived most in her social circle.
My wife would prefer her to be more local so that she is able to help her more. We do not have a suitable space or facility in our house to accomodate bed, hoist etc’

We were talking with her about options, maybe considering selling her house and ours and finding a property that can accommodate MiL and us with separate but connected living spaces. Just wondering how IHT issues might work with this - it is unlikely she will survive 7 years, and also may require more care than we and visiting carers can provide, meaning care home fees may also need to be considered at some point.
Any other options to consider? Eg transferring MiL house to wife before selling to fund multi gen home. Feels like a potential admin nightmare to me, but wife has a bee in her bonnet about moving the old girl nearer.

[Jamescrs]

I think you are going to need some very careful legal advice on this one because whilst I can see your wife’s sentiment in wanting to support her mother as long as possible, from an outside point of view it’s going to look like a fairly obvious tactic to avoid care home fees/ IHT.

How they would recover that if it’s rolled into a house you are living in I’m not sure but I do know that local authorities have teams for looking into where someone’s money/ assets have gone when they are asked to provide funding and they do pursue it.

[monthou]

Jamescrs said:

I think you are going to need some very careful legal advice on this one because whilst I can see your wife s sentiment in wanting to support her mother as long as possible, from an outside point of view it s going to look like a fairly obvious tactic to avoid care home fees/ IHT.

How they would recover that if it s rolled into a house you are living in I m not sure but I do know that local authorities have teams for looking into where someone s money/ assets have gone when they are asked to provide funding and they do pursue it.

There may well be an issue with IHT.
How can there possibly be an issue with avoiding care home fees by not going into a care home?
And if she's not going into a care home why would the local authority have any interest?

Edited by monthou on Tuesday 11th August 06:39

[dave123456]

Jamescrs said:

I think you are going to need some very careful legal advice on this one because whilst I can see your wife s sentiment in wanting to support her mother as long as possible, from an outside point of view it s going to look like a fairly obvious tactic to avoid care home fees/ IHT.

How they would recover that if it s rolled into a house you are living in I m not sure but I do know that local authorities have teams for looking into where someone s money/ assets have gone when they are asked to provide funding and they do pursue it.

I think you are conflating two points here, it’s not a fairly obvious tactic to avoid IHT it’s what someone who cares about their relative would do. The IHT avoided is an ancillary issue.

I agree with your point re tax advice tho. Fundamentally if you are buying somewhere specifically for her then perhaps not a great idea, I have seen people do it to give themselves an annex for older children in the future.

[Nicetobenice]

If it's a genuine desire to move in together then it's not a "tactic" to avoid anything.

First thing to do is look at the numbers

How much is is her house worth and what's the estate value?

How much would the new house be?

[dontlookdown]

Have you considered renting her a flat in sheltered accomodation near where you live? They are usually set up to allow carers to come and go.

Did this for my mum, moved her down from Yorks to Cotswolds, she lived in the flat for a couple of years and it worked v well for her. It was a decent place with a nice garden she could walk in, near to shops wtc. Also much easier for me/ my sis to visit and help out.

Would be quicker than selling two properties and buying another, too..

But if you do go this route, rent the flat do not buy it. These flats often depreciate significantly in value, are hard to sell and have ongoing fees attached. None of which are your problems if you are renting, but definitely are if you buy.

[sawman]

We started by looking for a property near us that she could live in, but theres nothing immediately popping up, but there are a number of properties that would accommodate all of us

In terms of IHT , MiL is surviving partner and is in north west, nice plot in a good neighborhood but house is now a fixer upper so i dont think the threshold will be breached I wouldnt expect the house to fetch more than 500k If we combine properties i would expect there would be at somehere around 250-300k leftover from the sale of her house that would be used to pay for care either at home or if her need got higher in residential care - she is already paying for care so no real change.

I am sure I read a thread on here a few years ago about a similar scenario but i cant find it.

Edited by sawman on Tuesday 11th August 07:22

Edited by sawman on Tuesday 11th August 07:23

[sawman]

dontlookdown said:

Have you considered renting her a flat in sheltered accomodation near where you live? They are usually set up to allow carers to come and go.

Did this for my mum, moved her down from Yorks to Cotswolds, she lived in the flat for a couple of years and it worked v well for her. It was a decent place with a nice garden she could walk in, near to shops wtc. Also much easier for me/ my sis to visit and help out.

Would be quicker than selling two properties and buying another, too..

But if you do go this route, rent the flat do not buy it. These flats often depreciate significantly in value, are hard to sell and have ongoing fees attached. None of which are your problems if you are renting, but definitely are if you buy.

Good idea, i’ll have a look at that aspect, as you say may be logistically simpler that trying sell 2 houses

[omniflow]

You don't mention (or if you did, I didn't notice it) whether or not you're the only child / potential beneficiary. If you aren't, then that's a whole can of worms that needs to be negotiated.

I went through the same thought process with my own Mother recently, and whilst it never actually came to this, my plan was to rent a house that worked for both parties (me & my Wife, my Mum), then see how we got on for a couple of months. Depending on how much care they actually need, supporting an elderly parent is something that grows old very quickly. Even your Wife might find herself getting very frustrated after a few weeks of constant presence. Believe me, you worry an awful lot more when your Mum is in your house than you do when she's in her own house, despite the fact that you're "there". You have to go out sometimes, and you need regular breaks / respite.

At this point, I wouldn't be giving any thought to the IHT / Care home etc implications - I'd be focused on what would work and what I and my Wife could actually cope with. Once you've figured that out, start looking into the rest.

[Jamescrs]

monthou said:

There may well be an issue with IHT.
How can there possibly be an issue with avoiding care home fees by not going into a care home?
And if she's not going into a care home why would the local authority have any interest?

Edited by monthou on Tuesday 11th August 06:39

The OP indicates that the elderly person may still end up going into a care home even if they move in together first, at that point if the local authority are called upon to find that they will look into where her money and assets have gone if she cannot self fund.

[monthou]

Jamescrs said:

monthou said:

There may well be an issue with IHT.
How can there possibly be an issue with avoiding care home fees by not going into a care home?
And if she's not going into a care home why would the local authority have any interest?

Edited by monthou on Tuesday 11th August 06:39

The OP indicates that the elderly person may still end up going into a care home even if they move in together first, at that point if the local authority are called upon to find that they will look into where her money and assets have gone if she cannot self fund.

Fair point.

[sawman]

monthou said:

Jamescrs said:

monthou said:

There may well be an issue with IHT.
How can there possibly be an issue with avoiding care home fees by not going into a care home?
And if she's not going into a care home why would the local authority have any interest?

Edited by monthou on Tuesday 11th August 06:39

The OP indicates that the elderly person may still end up going into a care home even if they move in together first, at that point if the local authority are called upon to find that they will look into where her money and assets have gone if she cannot self fund.

Fair point.

there would be an expection that some of the proceeds of the sale of MiL house would be kelpt aside to fund either care at home or of care home charges.
unfortunately this is the reality of becoming old in the UK - if the old girl had smoked and drunk her health away and developed a medical condition that needed expensive care it would be taken care of. But as it is ,at the end of a life devoted to helping others, (she was a Matron in a large hospital). she is not able to do much for herself her body is just worn out at 90 although not actually particularly ill.

Edited by sawman on Tuesday 11th August 18:58

[Olivera]

If she's elderly and already requires daily carers and a hoist, you really ought to be considering that even in the short-medium term she may well require full time care in a care home, hospital or hospice.