Credit card liability
Discussion
I don't know whether anyone is well versed in credit card liability, but I have a strange situation and I'd be interested in any thoughts or advice.
Basically, I ordered an expensive lamp online from a UK company. It eventually turned up from China and was cheap tat, not the circa £300 lamp I was expecting, so I immediately contacted the company and asked to return it.
They agreed, but said that I would have to pay the postage and a 10% restocking fee. I explained, and even provided links to government advice regarding distance selling regulations that clearly state that within a fortnight of delivery, goods may be returned and the vendor must cover postage and refund in full. They said it's in their terms and conditions on their website. I pointed out that they don't get to opt out of consumer law, that's not how it works, but they simply kept repeating it.
To be honest, it's not a huge amount of money, but they're been so obstinate that I am inclined to force the point.
So I've contacted the credit card company (Halifax) who have said that if they refund all but 10%, they will pursue that 10%. But they wont cover the postage. I've said 'Hang on, I thought as a credit card company, you were legally jointly liable for fully resolving the situation' only to be told 'computer says no'.
I'm really surprised by this. As I say, it's not a huge amount of money, I'm afraid I'm doing this out of principle, which is probably a waste of time. But I just don't like companies deciding to make up their own rules and thinking they can opt out of consumer law, or credit card companies not living up to their obligations.
Any thoughts (beyond 'get a life', obviously!
) ?
Basically, I ordered an expensive lamp online from a UK company. It eventually turned up from China and was cheap tat, not the circa £300 lamp I was expecting, so I immediately contacted the company and asked to return it.
They agreed, but said that I would have to pay the postage and a 10% restocking fee. I explained, and even provided links to government advice regarding distance selling regulations that clearly state that within a fortnight of delivery, goods may be returned and the vendor must cover postage and refund in full. They said it's in their terms and conditions on their website. I pointed out that they don't get to opt out of consumer law, that's not how it works, but they simply kept repeating it.
To be honest, it's not a huge amount of money, but they're been so obstinate that I am inclined to force the point.
So I've contacted the credit card company (Halifax) who have said that if they refund all but 10%, they will pursue that 10%. But they wont cover the postage. I've said 'Hang on, I thought as a credit card company, you were legally jointly liable for fully resolving the situation' only to be told 'computer says no'.
I'm really surprised by this. As I say, it's not a huge amount of money, I'm afraid I'm doing this out of principle, which is probably a waste of time. But I just don't like companies deciding to make up their own rules and thinking they can opt out of consumer law, or credit card companies not living up to their obligations.
Any thoughts (beyond 'get a life', obviously!
) ? As above. Im speculating but I think you may need to be careful on how you articulate the reasons for return.
Courtesy of AI
I am rejecting this lamp under the Consumer Rights Act 2015.
The lamp supplied is not of satisfactory quality and is not as described. It is plainly a low-quality product apparently supplied directly from China, which is materially inconsistent with the quality and standard I reasonably expected when purchasing a £300 lamp from a UK retailer.
I do not accept your proposed 10% restocking fee, nor do I accept responsibility for the cost of returning the goods to China or anywhere else.
This is not a change-of-mind return under your standard returns policy. I am exercising my statutory rights under the Consumer Rights Act 2015. Where goods are rejected because they do not conform to the contract, the trader is responsible for the reasonable cost of returning them, and a restocking charge cannot be imposed to reduce the statutory refund.
Please therefore confirm that you will provide a full refund of the £300 purchase price and arrange/pay for the reasonable return of the lamp. I will not incur a £30 restocking charge or pay any postage.
Please confirm the return arrangements within 7 days.
Courtesy of AI
I am rejecting this lamp under the Consumer Rights Act 2015.
The lamp supplied is not of satisfactory quality and is not as described. It is plainly a low-quality product apparently supplied directly from China, which is materially inconsistent with the quality and standard I reasonably expected when purchasing a £300 lamp from a UK retailer.
I do not accept your proposed 10% restocking fee, nor do I accept responsibility for the cost of returning the goods to China or anywhere else.
This is not a change-of-mind return under your standard returns policy. I am exercising my statutory rights under the Consumer Rights Act 2015. Where goods are rejected because they do not conform to the contract, the trader is responsible for the reasonable cost of returning them, and a restocking charge cannot be imposed to reduce the statutory refund.
Please therefore confirm that you will provide a full refund of the £300 purchase price and arrange/pay for the reasonable return of the lamp. I will not incur a £30 restocking charge or pay any postage.
Please confirm the return arrangements within 7 days.
dundarach said:
That was my understanding, ask them to clarify in writing and then seek legal advice.
To be honest, for £30 plus postage, I don't think I'd worry if they're covering the rest.
Sounds like a good escape and lesson learnt when buying crap on the internet!
This is the sensible approach. Unfortunately, an Internet company (which is probably some bloke sat at home with his laptop drop shipping Chinese crap) deciding that he can opt out of consumer laws in the UK has really pissed me off and I feel the need to correct his understanding. It's people thinking 'oh well, it's only £30' (which as someone has said, is probably his cost for it) that allows people to get away with it. To be honest, for £30 plus postage, I don't think I'd worry if they're covering the rest.
Sounds like a good escape and lesson learnt when buying crap on the internet!
Trevor555 said:
Did you tell the credit card it was "not as described"
Or "miss sold"?
I've done three chargebacks, and all went well, although was a few years ago now.
Sorry to hear CC is insiting you pay postage, but I guess good they're covering the 10%
Nope, just that I don't want it. You are allowed, under UK consumer law, to return goods for a full refund at their expense within two weeks for any reason. Or "miss sold"?
I've done three chargebacks, and all went well, although was a few years ago now.
Sorry to hear CC is insiting you pay postage, but I guess good they're covering the 10%
https://www.gov.uk/accepting-returns-and-giving-re...
Online, mail and telephone order customers have the right to cancel their order for a limited time even if the item is not faulty. Sales of this kind are known as ‘distance selling’.
You must offer a refund to customers if they’ve told you within 14 days of receiving their item that they want to cancel. They have another 14 days to return the item once they’ve told you.
You must refund the customer within 14 days of receiving the item back. They do not have to provide a reason. You cannot deduct any fees from their refund, unless the item has been used or damaged.
You must also refund the cost of standard delivery if the customer paid for it. If they paid for a more expensive delivery option, you only need to refund the cost of standard delivery.
PeteTaylor99 said:
As above. Im speculating but I think you may need to be careful on how you articulate the reasons for return.
Courtesy of AI
I am rejecting this lamp under the Consumer Rights Act 2015.
The lamp supplied is not of satisfactory quality and is not as described. It is plainly a low-quality product apparently supplied directly from China, which is materially inconsistent with the quality and standard I reasonably expected when purchasing a £300 lamp from a UK retailer.
I do not accept your proposed 10% restocking fee, nor do I accept responsibility for the cost of returning the goods to China or anywhere else.
This is not a change-of-mind return under your standard returns policy. I am exercising my statutory rights under the Consumer Rights Act 2015. Where goods are rejected because they do not conform to the contract, the trader is responsible for the reasonable cost of returning them, and a restocking charge cannot be imposed to reduce the statutory refund.
Please therefore confirm that you will provide a full refund of the £300 purchase price and arrange/pay for the reasonable return of the lamp. I will not incur a £30 restocking charge or pay any postage.
Please confirm the return arrangements within 7 days.
Nope, absolutely no reason needed under UK consumer law.Courtesy of AI
I am rejecting this lamp under the Consumer Rights Act 2015.
The lamp supplied is not of satisfactory quality and is not as described. It is plainly a low-quality product apparently supplied directly from China, which is materially inconsistent with the quality and standard I reasonably expected when purchasing a £300 lamp from a UK retailer.
I do not accept your proposed 10% restocking fee, nor do I accept responsibility for the cost of returning the goods to China or anywhere else.
This is not a change-of-mind return under your standard returns policy. I am exercising my statutory rights under the Consumer Rights Act 2015. Where goods are rejected because they do not conform to the contract, the trader is responsible for the reasonable cost of returning them, and a restocking charge cannot be imposed to reduce the statutory refund.
Please therefore confirm that you will provide a full refund of the £300 purchase price and arrange/pay for the reasonable return of the lamp. I will not incur a £30 restocking charge or pay any postage.
Please confirm the return arrangements within 7 days.
Online, mail and telephone order customers have the right to cancel their order for a limited time even if the item is not faulty. Sales of this kind are known as ‘distance selling’.
You must offer a refund to customers if they’ve told you within 14 days of receiving their item that they want to cancel. They have another 14 days to return the item once they’ve told you.
You must refund the customer within 14 days of receiving the item back. They do not have to provide a reason. You cannot deduct any fees from their refund, unless the item has been used or damaged.
You must also refund the cost of standard delivery if the customer paid for it. If they paid for a more expensive delivery option, you only need to refund the cost of standard delivery.
What amazes me is that the credit card company, which is equally liable (because that's how it works) are saying that they don't need to cover postage. They very clearly do!
I totally get that this is never worth the hassle, but as above, just rolling over and letting companies do things that are blatantly wrong is how they get away with it.
I totally get that this is never worth the hassle, but as above, just rolling over and letting companies do things that are blatantly wrong is how they get away with it.
Ari said:
So I've contacted the credit card company (Halifax) who have said that if they refund all but 10%, they will pursue that 10%. But they wont cover the postage. I've said 'Hang on, I thought as a credit card company, you were legally jointly liable for fully resolving the situation' only to be told 'computer says no'.
Go back to Halifax and tell them you want to make a 'Section 75' claim and if they mention 'chargeback' tell them 'no, a Section 75 claim' - the poorly trained front line staff are often unaware of the difference.I bet that once you go through that the result will be a £300 credit to your account once you send them photos of you having smashed the lamp.
I wonder if there has been a misunderstanding here and they are under the impression you are trying to claim for return postage and thats what they are pushing back about. If you have changed your mind about the purchase that would be valid. If you have explicitly said that it is not as described then quite right return postage is covered.
craigjm said:
I wonder if there has been a misunderstanding here and they are under the impression you are trying to claim for return postage and thats what they are pushing back about. If you have changed your mind about the purchase that would be valid. If you have explicitly said that it is not as described then quite right return postage is covered.
No, it wouldn't. Consumer law is really really clear on this point (which is why I'm amazed that the credit card company seemed unable to grasp it). This is how it applies to online sales.You must refund the customer within 14 days of receiving the item back. They do not have to provide a reason. You cannot deduct any fees from their refund, unless the item has been used or damaged.
You must also refund the cost of standard delivery if the customer paid for it. If they paid for a more expensive delivery option, you only need to refund the cost of standard delivery.
https://www.gov.uk/accepting-returns-and-giving-re...
slievenashaska said:
Go back to Halifax and tell them you want to make a 'Section 75' claim and if they mention 'chargeback' tell them 'no, a Section 75 claim' - the poorly trained front line staff are often unaware of the difference.
I bet that once you go through that the result will be a £300 credit to your account once you send them photos of you having smashed the lamp.
That's great advice, thank you.I bet that once you go through that the result will be a £300 credit to your account once you send them photos of you having smashed the lamp.
Trevor555 said:
Then make a complaint to the credit card company.
They can't ignore complaints.
It's the credit card company saying 'we're not liable for postage'. They can't ignore complaints.
They are absolutely jointly liable, that's how it works. If the merchant won't (for whatever reason, gone bust, point blank refuses, whatever), then the credit card company is fully liable.
Ari said:
craigjm said:
I wonder if there has been a misunderstanding here and they are under the impression you are trying to claim for return postage and thats what they are pushing back about. If you have changed your mind about the purchase that would be valid. If you have explicitly said that it is not as described then quite right return postage is covered.
No, it wouldn't. Consumer law is really really clear on this point (which is why I'm amazed that the credit card company seemed unable to grasp it). This is how it applies to online sales.You must refund the customer within 14 days of receiving the item back. They do not have to provide a reason. You cannot deduct any fees from their refund, unless the item has been used or damaged.
You must also refund the cost of standard delivery if the customer paid for it. If they paid for a more expensive delivery option, you only need to refund the cost of standard delivery.
https://www.gov.uk/accepting-returns-and-giving-re...
Is the retailer operating as a business in the UK and is it using banking and card services with a UK identity?
Did the retailer describe itself as a UK or overseas retailer?
In reality is the retailer a UK or an overseas retailer?
If overseas then you may have been scammed into believing it was UK but does Section 75 apply to overseas purchases?
Did the retailer describe itself as a UK or overseas retailer?
In reality is the retailer a UK or an overseas retailer?
If overseas then you may have been scammed into believing it was UK but does Section 75 apply to overseas purchases?
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