General financial advice for care home fees.
Discussion
Advice needed please.
I am not financially savvy so would appreciate some basic guidance.
I am happy to pay a financial adviser – but have no idea who/where to start and scant knowledge as to questions to ask once I find one.
I have LPA for my father who has had to go into a care home.
The sale of his house is imminent.
Proceeds will probably pay 5 years care home fees (not taking into account any gains via Shares, bonds or building society interest)
Hence advice needed.
I am not financially savvy so would appreciate some basic guidance.
I am happy to pay a financial adviser – but have no idea who/where to start and scant knowledge as to questions to ask once I find one.
I have LPA for my father who has had to go into a care home.
The sale of his house is imminent.
Proceeds will probably pay 5 years care home fees (not taking into account any gains via Shares, bonds or building society interest)
Hence advice needed.
andyxxx said:
Advice needed please.
I am not financially savvy so would appreciate some basic guidance.
I am happy to pay a financial adviser but have no idea who/where to start and scant knowledge as to questions to ask once I find one.
I have LPA for my father who has had to go into a care home.
The sale of his house is imminent.
Proceeds will probably pay 5 years care home fees (not taking into account any gains via Shares, bonds or building society interest)
Hence advice needed.
What advice are you after - where to invest , how to invest , should you invest v simply “ save “ , whether to purchase an annuity with the house proceeds or what happens if your Father then ends up with less than the £23k needed to avoid self funding ?I am not financially savvy so would appreciate some basic guidance.
I am happy to pay a financial adviser but have no idea who/where to start and scant knowledge as to questions to ask once I find one.
I have LPA for my father who has had to go into a care home.
The sale of his house is imminent.
Proceeds will probably pay 5 years care home fees (not taking into account any gains via Shares, bonds or building society interest)
Hence advice needed.
Open to thoughts regarding all the options
Where/how to find a good well regarded financial adviser the costs involved, how to proceed etc
Ideas (for/against) the various options I have suggested plus any others I am not aware of.
You mention an annuity which is another option however, my father is 96 and frail so probably not the best choice – but nobody knows when we will depart but I think it unlikely he will reach 100.
Where/how to find a good well regarded financial adviser the costs involved, how to proceed etc
Ideas (for/against) the various options I have suggested plus any others I am not aware of.
You mention an annuity which is another option however, my father is 96 and frail so probably not the best choice – but nobody knows when we will depart but I think it unlikely he will reach 100.
Will try and fill in some blanks.
Firstly sorry about your Father going into care.
Immediate needs annuity’s are very expensive and as you say given his age probably / definitely not suitable.
Average time spent in a care home would also render reduce the value of buying.
I bought one for a relative ( different age and circumstances ) and had it not been for her then getting cancer it would just about have paid for itself although once the reduced IHT then came into play meant financially her beneficiaries benefitted more than she did.
They generally pay around 80% of the fees and the breakeven purely in financial terms is about 3 years.
I am now taking over as LPA for my Mother so am going though her numbers although at the moment she is ok in her own home.
If you have worked out that your Father’ funds will last for 5 years ( at assumingly the current rates although this will obviously increase each year ) then by the time money drops below that £23k I imagine the LA will take over his care and not insist on moving him but that’s not guaranteed.
As such and as LPA you have to act in his interests at all times it seems that putting all of the money in crypto probably wouldn’t be the most sensible.
Keeping it all in cash ( mixture of instant / limited access / fixed term bonds / premium bonds etc ) sticks to that 5 year number but obviously doesn’t really extend it much.
If any portion invested in the stock market ( and as safely as possible ie perhaps global trackers ) then your time frame is still too short to compensate for any major fall.
You could of course hedge a portion of this money in this way but it is a risk nevertheless.
Given that money would be temporary and as a result of a house sale 100% of it is safe for 6 months under FSCS rules so you don’t have to do anything in a hurry.
Putting it all in for the time being in perhaps NSI is therefore sensible or even another building society of your Father has one open although under your LPA opening a fresh account shouldn’t be that hard.
Whatever and however you split the money you have got to feel comfortable with that decision.
If you are the sort of person that would worry every 5 minutes about the SM then go for the boring easy option of 100% safe , knowing that whatever happens you should be ok for that 5 year period.
Firstly sorry about your Father going into care.
Immediate needs annuity’s are very expensive and as you say given his age probably / definitely not suitable.
Average time spent in a care home would also render reduce the value of buying.
I bought one for a relative ( different age and circumstances ) and had it not been for her then getting cancer it would just about have paid for itself although once the reduced IHT then came into play meant financially her beneficiaries benefitted more than she did.
They generally pay around 80% of the fees and the breakeven purely in financial terms is about 3 years.
I am now taking over as LPA for my Mother so am going though her numbers although at the moment she is ok in her own home.
If you have worked out that your Father’ funds will last for 5 years ( at assumingly the current rates although this will obviously increase each year ) then by the time money drops below that £23k I imagine the LA will take over his care and not insist on moving him but that’s not guaranteed.
As such and as LPA you have to act in his interests at all times it seems that putting all of the money in crypto probably wouldn’t be the most sensible.
Keeping it all in cash ( mixture of instant / limited access / fixed term bonds / premium bonds etc ) sticks to that 5 year number but obviously doesn’t really extend it much.
If any portion invested in the stock market ( and as safely as possible ie perhaps global trackers ) then your time frame is still too short to compensate for any major fall.
You could of course hedge a portion of this money in this way but it is a risk nevertheless.
Given that money would be temporary and as a result of a house sale 100% of it is safe for 6 months under FSCS rules so you don’t have to do anything in a hurry.
Putting it all in for the time being in perhaps NSI is therefore sensible or even another building society of your Father has one open although under your LPA opening a fresh account shouldn’t be that hard.
Whatever and however you split the money you have got to feel comfortable with that decision.
If you are the sort of person that would worry every 5 minutes about the SM then go for the boring easy option of 100% safe , knowing that whatever happens you should be ok for that 5 year period.
Do not pay fees in advance if you can avoid it.
When my father went into care I was initially billed at the end of each month. Eventually I was persuaded to set up a Direct Debit and fees were taken in advance. My father died on the 15th of the month and nine months later I'm still waiting for a refund of the balance, and for the £100-odd that was in a personal account for incidentals like toiletries, hairdressers, chiropodists, etc.
The culprits are Advinia Health Care Limited who apparently have form for this sort of sharp practice.
When my father went into care I was initially billed at the end of each month. Eventually I was persuaded to set up a Direct Debit and fees were taken in advance. My father died on the 15th of the month and nine months later I'm still waiting for a refund of the balance, and for the £100-odd that was in a personal account for incidentals like toiletries, hairdressers, chiropodists, etc.
The culprits are Advinia Health Care Limited who apparently have form for this sort of sharp practice.
I wouldn’t see an FA really making enough to cover their costs here. Just look for the best interest rates, make sure there’s an ISA for each tax year as time goes by.
Maybe he already gets attendance allowance, if not take a look at it. I expect higher rate once he’s in the home if he’s not already on that.
My dad was about 10 years younger and I had plans and was putting things in place. Ultimately he spent a year or so across two homes and suddenly passed.
Maybe he already gets attendance allowance, if not take a look at it. I expect higher rate once he’s in the home if he’s not already on that.
My dad was about 10 years younger and I had plans and was putting things in place. Ultimately he spent a year or so across two homes and suddenly passed.
Magic919 said:
I wouldn t see an FA really making enough to cover their costs here. Just look for the best interest rates, make sure there s an ISA for each tax year as time goes by.
Maybe he already gets attendance allowance, if not take a look at it. I expect higher rate once he s in the home if he s not already on that.
My dad was about 10 years younger and I had plans and was putting things in place. Ultimately he spent a year or so across two homes and suddenly passed.
AA is a good bit of advice - being in a home will qualify for the higher figure of currently around £115 pw. Maybe he already gets attendance allowance, if not take a look at it. I expect higher rate once he s in the home if he s not already on that.
My dad was about 10 years younger and I had plans and was putting things in place. Ultimately he spent a year or so across two homes and suddenly passed.
Paid with no tax due and not means tested.
Yes go down the attendance allowance route, get his patient summary printed off from his GP's surgery and put any letters that you have from the doctors or hospital relating to his condition. Just remember that when you're filling out the section for night time care (there are 2 rates for AA) to make the care he needs through the night to add up to more than an hour.
It's 114.60 a week at present and he'll get to keep it all as he's going to be self funding for care.
It's 114.60 a week at present and he'll get to keep it all as he's going to be self funding for care.
Halmyre said:
Do not pay fees in advance if you can avoid it.
When my father went into care I was initially billed at the end of each month. Eventually I was persuaded to set up a Direct Debit and fees were taken in advance. My father died on the 15th of the month and nine months later I'm still waiting for a refund of the balance, and for the £100-odd that was in a personal account for incidentals like toiletries, hairdressers, chiropodists, etc.
The culprits are Advinia Health Care Limited who apparently have form for this sort of sharp practice.
if the money was taking by DD can you not use the "DD guarantee" to get the money back?When my father went into care I was initially billed at the end of each month. Eventually I was persuaded to set up a Direct Debit and fees were taken in advance. My father died on the 15th of the month and nine months later I'm still waiting for a refund of the balance, and for the £100-odd that was in a personal account for incidentals like toiletries, hairdressers, chiropodists, etc.
The culprits are Advinia Health Care Limited who apparently have form for this sort of sharp practice.
alscar said:
Will try and fill in some blanks.
Firstly sorry about your Father going into care.
Immediate needs annuity s are very expensive and as you say given his age probably / definitely not suitable.
Average time spent in a care home would also render reduce the value of buying.
I bought one for a relative ( different age and circumstances ) and had it not been for her then getting cancer it would just about have paid for itself although once the reduced IHT then came into play meant financially her beneficiaries benefitted more than she did.
They generally pay around 80% of the fees and the breakeven purely in financial terms is about 3 years.
I am now taking over as LPA for my Mother so am going though her numbers although at the moment she is ok in her own home.
If you have worked out that your Father funds will last for 5 years ( at assumingly the current rates although this will obviously increase each year ) then by the time money drops below that £23k I imagine the LA will take over his care and not insist on moving him but that s not guaranteed.
As such and as LPA you have to act in his interests at all times it seems that putting all of the money in crypto probably wouldn t be the most sensible.
Keeping it all in cash ( mixture of instant / limited access / fixed term bonds / premium bonds etc ) sticks to that 5 year number but obviously doesn t really extend it much.
If any portion invested in the stock market ( and as safely as possible ie perhaps global trackers ) then your time frame is still too short to compensate for any major fall.
You could of course hedge a portion of this money in this way but it is a risk nevertheless.
Given that money would be temporary and as a result of a house sale 100% of it is safe for 6 months under FSCS rules so you don t have to do anything in a hurry.
Putting it all in for the time being in perhaps NSI is therefore sensible or even another building society of your Father has one open although under your LPA opening a fresh account shouldn t be that hard.
Whatever and however you split the money you have got to feel comfortable with that decision.
If you are the sort of person that would worry every 5 minutes about the SM then go for the boring easy option of 100% safe , knowing that whatever happens you should be ok for that 5 year period.
Thank you. Pretty much as I thought. Firstly sorry about your Father going into care.
Immediate needs annuity s are very expensive and as you say given his age probably / definitely not suitable.
Average time spent in a care home would also render reduce the value of buying.
I bought one for a relative ( different age and circumstances ) and had it not been for her then getting cancer it would just about have paid for itself although once the reduced IHT then came into play meant financially her beneficiaries benefitted more than she did.
They generally pay around 80% of the fees and the breakeven purely in financial terms is about 3 years.
I am now taking over as LPA for my Mother so am going though her numbers although at the moment she is ok in her own home.
If you have worked out that your Father funds will last for 5 years ( at assumingly the current rates although this will obviously increase each year ) then by the time money drops below that £23k I imagine the LA will take over his care and not insist on moving him but that s not guaranteed.
As such and as LPA you have to act in his interests at all times it seems that putting all of the money in crypto probably wouldn t be the most sensible.
Keeping it all in cash ( mixture of instant / limited access / fixed term bonds / premium bonds etc ) sticks to that 5 year number but obviously doesn t really extend it much.
If any portion invested in the stock market ( and as safely as possible ie perhaps global trackers ) then your time frame is still too short to compensate for any major fall.
You could of course hedge a portion of this money in this way but it is a risk nevertheless.
Given that money would be temporary and as a result of a house sale 100% of it is safe for 6 months under FSCS rules so you don t have to do anything in a hurry.
Putting it all in for the time being in perhaps NSI is therefore sensible or even another building society of your Father has one open although under your LPA opening a fresh account shouldn t be that hard.
Whatever and however you split the money you have got to feel comfortable with that decision.
If you are the sort of person that would worry every 5 minutes about the SM then go for the boring easy option of 100% safe , knowing that whatever happens you should be ok for that 5 year period.
Thank you everyone.
He did have attendance allowance while living at his house but that ceased when he went into the care home.
For the first 84 days in the home he gets '12 week property disregard' which pays most of the fee.
I was under the impression we could apply for AA once this period came to an end and not before - I will certainly try for it and appreciate everybodies advice about this. (I thought it may be means tested and he will by then have the proceeds of the sale of his house.)
He did have attendance allowance while living at his house but that ceased when he went into the care home.
For the first 84 days in the home he gets '12 week property disregard' which pays most of the fee.
I was under the impression we could apply for AA once this period came to an end and not before - I will certainly try for it and appreciate everybodies advice about this. (I thought it may be means tested and he will by then have the proceeds of the sale of his house.)
Edited by andyxxx on Saturday 12th September 16:40
Edited by andyxxx on Saturday 12th September 16:41
Sir Keith Stormer said:
Yes go down the attendance allowance route, get his patient summary printed off from his GP's surgery and put any letters that you have from the doctors or hospital relating to his condition. Just remember that when you're filling out the section for night time care (there are 2 rates for AA) to make the care he needs through the night to add up to more than an hour.
It's 114.60 a week at present and he'll get to keep it all as he's going to be self funding for care.
Good advice thanksIt's 114.60 a week at present and he'll get to keep it all as he's going to be self funding for care.
Countdown said:
Halmyre said:
Do not pay fees in advance if you can avoid it.
When my father went into care I was initially billed at the end of each month. Eventually I was persuaded to set up a Direct Debit and fees were taken in advance. My father died on the 15th of the month and nine months later I'm still waiting for a refund of the balance, and for the £100-odd that was in a personal account for incidentals like toiletries, hairdressers, chiropodists, etc.
The culprits are Advinia Health Care Limited who apparently have form for this sort of sharp practice.
if the money was taking by DD can you not use the "DD guarantee" to get the money back?When my father went into care I was initially billed at the end of each month. Eventually I was persuaded to set up a Direct Debit and fees were taken in advance. My father died on the 15th of the month and nine months later I'm still waiting for a refund of the balance, and for the £100-odd that was in a personal account for incidentals like toiletries, hairdressers, chiropodists, etc.
The culprits are Advinia Health Care Limited who apparently have form for this sort of sharp practice.
Halmyre said:
Countdown said:
Halmyre said:
Do not pay fees in advance if you can avoid it.
When my father went into care I was initially billed at the end of each month. Eventually I was persuaded to set up a Direct Debit and fees were taken in advance. My father died on the 15th of the month and nine months later I'm still waiting for a refund of the balance, and for the £100-odd that was in a personal account for incidentals like toiletries, hairdressers, chiropodists, etc.
The culprits are Advinia Health Care Limited who apparently have form for this sort of sharp practice.
if the money was taking by DD can you not use the "DD guarantee" to get the money back?When my father went into care I was initially billed at the end of each month. Eventually I was persuaded to set up a Direct Debit and fees were taken in advance. My father died on the 15th of the month and nine months later I'm still waiting for a refund of the balance, and for the £100-odd that was in a personal account for incidentals like toiletries, hairdressers, chiropodists, etc.
The culprits are Advinia Health Care Limited who apparently have form for this sort of sharp practice.
andyxxx said:
Thank you everyone.
He did have attendance allowance while living at his house but that ceased when he went into the care home.
For the first 84 days in the home he gets '12 week property disregard' which pays most of the fee.
I was under the impression we could apply for AA once this period came to an end and not before - I will certainly try for it and appreciate everybodies advice about this. (I thought it may be means tested and he will by then have the proceeds of the sale of his house.)
I presume that he received the lower rate of around £75 whilst in his own home (?) but that shouldn’t have stopped when he went into the care home unless the LA takes it albeit temporarily. He did have attendance allowance while living at his house but that ceased when he went into the care home.
For the first 84 days in the home he gets '12 week property disregard' which pays most of the fee.
I was under the impression we could apply for AA once this period came to an end and not before - I will certainly try for it and appreciate everybodies advice about this. (I thought it may be means tested and he will by then have the proceeds of the sale of his house.)
Edited by andyxxx on Saturday 12th September 16:40
Edited by andyxxx on Saturday 12th September 16:41
Once you are paying privately you should be able to claim the full amount as his circumstances have changed. Obviously this will only slightly reduce the monthly bill unfortunately.
It is not means tested in any way and should be paid into your Fathers usual bank account.
When you fill out the form just be sure to fill out as though it is your Fathers worst day.
Halmyre said:
Do not pay fees in advance if you can avoid it.
When my father went into care I was initially billed at the end of each month. Eventually I was persuaded to set up a Direct Debit and fees were taken in advance. My father died on the 15th of the month and nine months later I'm still waiting for a refund of the balance, and for the £100-odd that was in a personal account for incidentals like toiletries, hairdressers, chiropodists, etc.
The culprits are Advinia Health Care Limited who apparently have form for this sort of sharp practice.
Yes that’s really poor - most do charge a month ahead but any returns should be paid back pretty quickly. When my father went into care I was initially billed at the end of each month. Eventually I was persuaded to set up a Direct Debit and fees were taken in advance. My father died on the 15th of the month and nine months later I'm still waiting for a refund of the balance, and for the £100-odd that was in a personal account for incidentals like toiletries, hairdressers, chiropodists, etc.
The culprits are Advinia Health Care Limited who apparently have form for this sort of sharp practice.
My aunt died on the 8th and the refund was in her bank a week later.
Not sure what possible excuse they are using to delay your money back that long !
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