What is the point of even trying (to pay your way) in the UK
Discussion
AKA the revolution might be closer than you think mr cameroon/clegg.
When you recieve, say, just under £100 ctc, when the council then calculates ctc as "income" and then hands you a council tax demand (for overpaid council tax benefits) of just under £500??
It just isn't worth working a combined 98 hours/week-the thread title.
Also did you know that HMRC now include a service pension in your PARTNERS tax code calculation. Thus if someone hasn't worked for a number of years, then goes back to work they reduce the amount of tax free earning level by applying the pensionees "tax code"!!
I forsee Big social troubles ahead for the UK and it's only February!
When you recieve, say, just under £100 ctc, when the council then calculates ctc as "income" and then hands you a council tax demand (for overpaid council tax benefits) of just under £500??
It just isn't worth working a combined 98 hours/week-the thread title.
Also did you know that HMRC now include a service pension in your PARTNERS tax code calculation. Thus if someone hasn't worked for a number of years, then goes back to work they reduce the amount of tax free earning level by applying the pensionees "tax code"!!
I forsee Big social troubles ahead for the UK and it's only February!
Edited by Mojocvh on Saturday 12th February 11:52
GeraldSmith said:
What?
ctc = Cyclists Touring Club?
ctc = Chrysler Technology Centre?
ctc = cost to company?
ctc = ??
child tax credits.ctc = Cyclists Touring Club?
ctc = Chrysler Technology Centre?
ctc = cost to company?
ctc = ??
Like yourself I had NO inkling of the benefits system and just how biased it is.
It is only in the last 12 months or so that I have seen first hand, just how pointless it was contributing for so many years only to be disqualified at the first hurdle.
Eric Mc said:
What's the problem?
1. the council then calculates ctc as "income" and then hands you a council tax demand. So far this has flip-flopped 56, 304,86, 402.2. HMRC now include a service pension in your PARTNERS tax code calculation. Thus if someone hasn't worked for a number of years, then goes back to work they reduce the amount of tax free earning level by applying the pensionees "tax code"!!
So why bother working, you end up with nothing anyway.
I hear some of the Scandinavian countries have better benefits systems than ours, so maybe you should emigrate there...its a free job market in EU after all.......
mind you, the taxes are more than ours, so Im not sure you would be any better off...youd likely get more benefits and pay more in tax
I guess the only real answer is to learn new skills and up your earning power, so you have enough money not to get benefits at all ....then you can sit on the other side of the fence and moan how your 40% or 50% taxes are so high to pay for all these benefits scroungers LOL
/mmm...yep..you're correct - you cant win I guess: it just depends on where you want to fit into society, but one way or another you are going to be working and paying, unless you really do want to live on the bottom rung where others work, so you can just exist
Mojocvh said:
AKA the revolution might be closer than you think mr cameroon/clegg.
When you recieve, say, just under £100 ctc, when the council then calculates ctc as "income" and then hands you a council tax demand (for overpaid council tax benefits) of just under £500??
It just isn't worth working a combined 98 hours/week-the thread title.
Also did you know that HMRC now include a service pension in your PARTNERS tax code calculation. Thus if someone hasn't worked for a number of years, then goes back to work they reduce the amount of tax free earning level by applying the pensionees "tax code"!!
I forsee Big social troubles ahead for the UK and it's only February!
I disagree. You are looking at this as though the low wage beginnings can never become something more. Work hard but, more importantly, work cleverly, and you'll end up never having to worry about the high marginal tax rates that occur as you transition from benefits to standing on your own two feet, from living on handouts, to paying your own way.When you recieve, say, just under £100 ctc, when the council then calculates ctc as "income" and then hands you a council tax demand (for overpaid council tax benefits) of just under £500??
It just isn't worth working a combined 98 hours/week-the thread title.
Also did you know that HMRC now include a service pension in your PARTNERS tax code calculation. Thus if someone hasn't worked for a number of years, then goes back to work they reduce the amount of tax free earning level by applying the pensionees "tax code"!!
I forsee Big social troubles ahead for the UK and it's only February!
Edited by Mojocvh on Saturday 12th February 11:52
Your post above shows you are viewing life through a prism that is totally alien to me, one that says "why should I work, when it means that I have to stop taking other people's money?"
The reason that we will not have a revolution is because you're overlooking one very important thing that makes other people work even when it seems to make little sense in the short term; pride.
NorthernBoy said:
I disagree. You are looking at this as though the low wage beginnings can never become something more. Work hard but, more importantly, work cleverly, and you'll end up never having to worry about the high marginal tax rates that occur as you transition from benefits to standing on your own two feet, from living on handouts, to paying your own way.
Your post above shows you are viewing life through a prism that is totally alien to me, one that says "why should I work, when it means that I have to stop taking other people's money?"
The reason that we will not have a revolution is because you're overlooking one very important thing that makes other people work even when it seems to make little sense in the short term; pride.
My friend, everyone's circumstances differ. Before being thrown on the scrapheap, for for example, for 9 months of that particular fiscal year I "contributed" 2,600 in NI, and for 28 yrs before that as well, at varying levels.Your post above shows you are viewing life through a prism that is totally alien to me, one that says "why should I work, when it means that I have to stop taking other people's money?"
The reason that we will not have a revolution is because you're overlooking one very important thing that makes other people work even when it seems to make little sense in the short term; pride.
The fact that I am debarred from my "insurance" contributions after all these years is somewhat galling I will admit.
Your talk of "work clever/hard" is all very inspiring except it is what I have ALWAYS done for all my working life.
Believe me, age discrimination, on many levels, does exist, even more so in today's job market(what there is of it).
My advise-make hay whilst the sun shines.
Mo.
zollburgers said:
I'm paying for you to have children, but do I cry about it? So don't cry about this free money now not being as free as it once was.
Hang on I'll just nick out for another....WHAT PART OF "I am debarred from my "insurance" contributions after all these years" DON'T YOU GET?
Sorry, but if you're going to flame me, try a bit harder.
Edited to remove the "stupid" reference to zollburgers as he obviously isn't stupid at all. "Dude".
Edited by Mojocvh on Sunday 13th February 23:33
many reasons why people are worse off these days, but Fractional Reserve Banking is one of them. A parasitic government and public sector is another reason.
The tories austerity cuts will fail, as people will just end up on the dole.
'The revolution' isn't far away. Millionaire capitalists have been leeching off the workers for far too long. People won't tolerate it for much longer.
The tories austerity cuts will fail, as people will just end up on the dole.
'The revolution' isn't far away. Millionaire capitalists have been leeching off the workers for far too long. People won't tolerate it for much longer.
"as people will just end up on the dole" Oh the luxury.
Still when I'm more than 5 minutes late at the gateway of the local DW&P office, being disbarred from any hard earned benefit means that the following "painful" interview is completely reversed.
Boy you lot have a LOT to learn!
Mo.
Still when I'm more than 5 minutes late at the gateway of the local DW&P office, being disbarred from any hard earned benefit means that the following "painful" interview is completely reversed.
Boy you lot have a LOT to learn!
Mo.
Social Mobility is dead in this country. If you're born working class, you'll have a poor education at a state school. you'll then go on to do a low paid job. because you have no inherited wealth, you'll have to pay someone to rent a flat or house (houses cost 7x average salary). This will suck up most of your monthly pay and leave you with not a lot of spare cash.
Meanwhile, the person that owns the property becomes wealthy without lifting a finger. The fact that he/she owns property is somehow rewarded with wealth and seen as something that is good.
Who says that work pays?
Clearly not the case in this day and age. Modern day capitalism. Fail.
Meanwhile, the person that owns the property becomes wealthy without lifting a finger. The fact that he/she owns property is somehow rewarded with wealth and seen as something that is good.
Who says that work pays?
Clearly not the case in this day and age. Modern day capitalism. Fail.
stux2004 said:
Social Mobility is dead in this country. If you're born working class, you'll have a poor education at a state school. you'll then go on to do a low paid job. because you have no inherited wealth, you'll have to pay someone to rent a flat or house (houses cost 7x average salary). This will suck up most of your monthly pay and leave you with not a lot of spare cash.
Meanwhile, the person that owns the property becomes wealthy without lifting a finger. The fact that he/she owns property is somehow rewarded with wealth and seen as something that is good.
Who says that work pays?
Clearly not the case in this day and age. Modern day capitalism. Fail.
I do understand your frustration, but inherited wealth doesn't usually come along until most are in their mid fifties. Meanwhile, the person that owns the property becomes wealthy without lifting a finger. The fact that he/she owns property is somehow rewarded with wealth and seen as something that is good.
Who says that work pays?
Clearly not the case in this day and age. Modern day capitalism. Fail.
The UK does have quite a decent tax personal allowances for lower paid employees, there is also a capital gains allowance to assist non wealthy investers. Not the case in many other countries.
Bitterness towards wealthy people, is a bit "divide and conquer" or maybe "divide and rule". Ask yourself, how many have been given a job by a poor person.
Government overspending, Goverment employing way too many people and trying to maintain it with a shrinking revenue base!!!! Of course no Goverment can ever do anything wrong or make mistakes
They are however very adept at throwing blame elsewhere, the banks, the wealthy, almost anyone but themselves.If it some stage there is a revolution, you could get a suprise on the direction. (you are of course wellcome to join)
stux2004 said:
'The revolution' isn't far away. Millionaire capitalists have been leeching off the workers for far too long. People won't tolerate it for much longer.
Oh yes, we millionaire capitalists are foul people, I've spent the past 20 years building a business that now employs over 100 people, that's how terrible a person I am. When I think of all those people who have work, mortgages that can be paid, families that can be fed I can barely sleep at night.GeraldSmith said:
Oh yes, we millionaire capitalists are foul people, I've spent the past 20 years building a business that now employs over 100 people, that's how terrible a person I am. When I think of all those people who have work, mortgages that can be paid, families that can be fed I can barely sleep at night.
....and i'm sure that you are considerably richer than most of your employees. Capitalists will always justify their wealth by saying "but i have worked hard to get where i am and i employ x amount of people"Unless you are taking home a basic wage and living in an average house?
jeff m said:
I do understand your frustration, but inherited wealth doesn't usually come along until most are in their mid fifties.
The UK does have quite a decent tax personal allowances for lower paid employees, there is also a capital gains allowance to assist non wealthy investers. Not the case in many other countries.
Bitterness towards wealthy people, is a bit "divide and conquer" or maybe "divide and rule". Ask yourself, how many have been given a job by a poor person.
Government overspending, Goverment employing way too many people and trying to maintain it with a shrinking revenue base!!!! Of course no Goverment can ever do anything wrong or make mistakes They are however very adept at throwing blame elsewhere, the banks, the wealthy, almost anyone but themselves.
If it some stage there is a revolution, you could get a suprise on the direction. (you are of course wellcome to join)
a fair answer, but the government do not really run things in my opinion. Big business and the private sector are the ones pulling the strings.The UK does have quite a decent tax personal allowances for lower paid employees, there is also a capital gains allowance to assist non wealthy investers. Not the case in many other countries.
Bitterness towards wealthy people, is a bit "divide and conquer" or maybe "divide and rule". Ask yourself, how many have been given a job by a poor person.
Government overspending, Goverment employing way too many people and trying to maintain it with a shrinking revenue base!!!! Of course no Goverment can ever do anything wrong or make mistakes
They are however very adept at throwing blame elsewhere, the banks, the wealthy, almost anyone but themselves.If it some stage there is a revolution, you could get a suprise on the direction. (you are of course wellcome to join)
My personal circumstances are that I cannot get on the property ladder. Unless my relatives die within the next 10 years, i'll still be in the same position when i'm 40.
Unfortunately, the greed of the upper classes has caused the property price to rocket to 7x average salary. In the good old days, houses were 3 or 4 times annual salary and rents were cheaper.
The fact is that inflation has risen faster than (most peoples) wages for the last 10 years, that is why millions of people are renting and in debt.
It's also a fact that richer people generally have less empathy than poor people, that's why they have the attitude of "work harder, you pauper", instead of realising that they are living off the backs of the of working people.
Gassing Station | Finance | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff