Mistake during online money transfer
Discussion
Somebody owed me £350, I gave him my bank details and he did an online transfer of the cash a few weeks back. It never reached my account but left his. He has now worked out that he got the sort-code right but got the account number a digit wrong.
He says that his bank can't do anything about it and my bank are saying that they can't do anything about it (They are different banks).
Surely his bank can reverse the transaction?
Edited for poor typing and missing words
He says that his bank can't do anything about it and my bank are saying that they can't do anything about it (They are different banks).
Surely his bank can reverse the transaction?
Edited for poor typing and missing words
Edited by Lefty on Wednesday 6th April 16:04
Lefty said:
Somebody owed my £350, I gave him my bank details and he did an online transfer of the cash a few weeks back. It never reached my account left his. He has now worked out that he got the sort-code right but got the account number a digit wrong.
He says that his bank can't do anything about it and my bank are saying that they can't do anything about it (They are different banks).
Surely his bank can reverse the transaction?
Irrelevant. He needs to pay you, and take HIS mistake up with the bank.He says that his bank can't do anything about it and my bank are saying that they can't do anything about it (They are different banks).
Surely his bank can reverse the transaction?
I would call bulls
t to the person owing you, unless you have proof of the payment being sent and a transaction completed statement.
The way sortcodes and account numbers in the UK are generated, 1 digit difference is going to be a fking miracle if it hits another account, and would be returned as unable to complete transfer.
Know this does not help, but you might want to ask a few awkward questions of the person who owes you money.
t to the person owing you, unless you have proof of the payment being sent and a transaction completed statement.The way sortcodes and account numbers in the UK are generated, 1 digit difference is going to be a f
king miracle if it hits another account, and would be returned as unable to complete transfer.Know this does not help, but you might want to ask a few awkward questions of the person who owes you money.
He hasn't sent you the money.
If he says that he got the sort code right then he would have at least sent it to your bank, if not the right account. He should be able to tell you which incorrect account he sent it to, for your bank to trace.
Chances are the account he said he sent it to does not exist. If this is the case, then your bank would have the money in a suspense account for when they recieve unassigned funds.
Go back to your bank with the details of the account he said he sent it to, ask them where the money would go to if the account number wasn't assigned to anyone and ask them to check there.
If it still does not show up, he's bullstting you. He's right that his bank can't do anything as he has sent the money to another bank which can't be retracted.
I know this because I sent recently sent money to a wrong account and had to go through this. I got my money back but it took a week or two.
If he says that he got the sort code right then he would have at least sent it to your bank, if not the right account. He should be able to tell you which incorrect account he sent it to, for your bank to trace.
Chances are the account he said he sent it to does not exist. If this is the case, then your bank would have the money in a suspense account for when they recieve unassigned funds.
Go back to your bank with the details of the account he said he sent it to, ask them where the money would go to if the account number wasn't assigned to anyone and ask them to check there.
If it still does not show up, he's bulls
tting you. He's right that his bank can't do anything as he has sent the money to another bank which can't be retracted.I know this because I sent recently sent money to a wrong account and had to go through this. I got my money back but it took a week or two.
It depends on whether the account actually exists at the other bank, if not it should bounce straight back to him. If it is some randoms account it will take a while but there's still a chance he can get it back. In short, he needs to take it up with his bank as they will be able to trace it.
Lefty said:
Surely his bank can reverse the transaction?
Apparently not.I once transferred money to one of my accounts, but got the last digit wrong. The sending bank said once it had gone, there was nothing they could do. I had to contact the receiving bank. They explained that if the account didn't exist, it would be bounced back to the sending bank and be recredited. If it did exist, then tough luck.
Still, it shouldn't affect you if someone is that stupid (yes, I did just call myself that stupid). He effectively hasn't paid you anything.
ps. I got my money back after a nervous wait
This is relevant:
BBC said:
Millions of us now use online banking to pay bills, send money to relatives or to transfer cash into an ISA.
The majority of banks now operate a fast payments system so this money can be sent instantly with the click of a mouse.
That money credits the beneficiary's account instantly and can be withdrawn shortly afterwards.
But what happens if you send the payment to the wrong account?
Money Box listener Bob, who banks with Halifax, set up a payment to his wife's savings account. He got the account name and sort code right but he got one digit of the account number wrong.
Unfortunately for Bob the details he entered were valid for someone else's account and that person was sent the £1500.
He said: "The bank seemed to think that I'd double clicked on a "3" so that the last three numbers were 496, but because I'd clicked on the 3, the 394 came up, I didn't pick up on it, and it went through someone else's account."
Powerless to act
Bob did not realise his mistake until he checked his wife's account a couple of weeks later and saw that the money was not there.
The money was withdrawn by the unknown recipient within 24 hours of it crediting.
Halifax has sent a letter to the customer on Bob's behalf asking for it to return the money, but it is powerless to do anything else.
A spokesperson from the Information Commissioner's office told Money Box that the bank cannot reveal the name of the customer under any circumstances.
However if the person who has withdrawn the money is aware that it is not theirs, then they have committed a crime. At that point the police can get involved and obtain the details.
Number rather than name
Bob was unaware that Halifax, like most UK banks, does not check the customer's name against the account number. If it had done so then the payment would not have gone through.
Sandra Quinn, of the UK Payments Administration said;
"The way all payments are allocated these days is by the sort code and account number, so your six digit sort code and your eight digit account number.
"Because systems are automated and they're transmitting more than 10million payments a day in some cases, the only real way that payments can be allocated to accounts is by those digits rather than by the name."
In a statement Halifax said:
"We understand the frustration that the customer is experiencing.
"We are taking all reasonable steps to recover these funds on the customers behalf, and will keep him updated in relation to this matter."
BBC Radio 4's Money Box is broadcast on Saturdays at 1200 BST and repeated on Sundays at 2100 BST.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10301504The majority of banks now operate a fast payments system so this money can be sent instantly with the click of a mouse.
That money credits the beneficiary's account instantly and can be withdrawn shortly afterwards.
But what happens if you send the payment to the wrong account?
Money Box listener Bob, who banks with Halifax, set up a payment to his wife's savings account. He got the account name and sort code right but he got one digit of the account number wrong.
Unfortunately for Bob the details he entered were valid for someone else's account and that person was sent the £1500.
He said: "The bank seemed to think that I'd double clicked on a "3" so that the last three numbers were 496, but because I'd clicked on the 3, the 394 came up, I didn't pick up on it, and it went through someone else's account."
Powerless to act
Bob did not realise his mistake until he checked his wife's account a couple of weeks later and saw that the money was not there.
The money was withdrawn by the unknown recipient within 24 hours of it crediting.
Halifax has sent a letter to the customer on Bob's behalf asking for it to return the money, but it is powerless to do anything else.
A spokesperson from the Information Commissioner's office told Money Box that the bank cannot reveal the name of the customer under any circumstances.
However if the person who has withdrawn the money is aware that it is not theirs, then they have committed a crime. At that point the police can get involved and obtain the details.
Number rather than name
Bob was unaware that Halifax, like most UK banks, does not check the customer's name against the account number. If it had done so then the payment would not have gone through.
Sandra Quinn, of the UK Payments Administration said;
"The way all payments are allocated these days is by the sort code and account number, so your six digit sort code and your eight digit account number.
"Because systems are automated and they're transmitting more than 10million payments a day in some cases, the only real way that payments can be allocated to accounts is by those digits rather than by the name."
In a statement Halifax said:
"We understand the frustration that the customer is experiencing.
"We are taking all reasonable steps to recover these funds on the customers behalf, and will keep him updated in relation to this matter."
BBC Radio 4's Money Box is broadcast on Saturdays at 1200 BST and repeated on Sundays at 2100 BST.
You have to be SUPER sure of the account details you enter plus remember it forces you to duble check the details before you submit so plenty of time to verify it.
If I have to send cash to people I ask for an email from them detailing the sort code and account number. I keep this email - incase they accidently (or not) provide the wrong data. I always check that they have received the funds also within a day.
One question here clearly anyone who receive such funds must declare it on their self assessment to pay the due tax otherwise its untaxed income.
In addition what if you receive say £1,500 credit in such a situation and you were due to pay in a similar amount to say pay for a bill. Given the credit you dont pay in the amount you would normally do and let the bill payments be taken out of those funds. You then decide to keep that £1.5k you didnt need to tfr in a savings account and ensure you run the other account really low so that it wouldnt be possible to remove £1.5k as the balance and overdraft limit are far too low.
If I have to send cash to people I ask for an email from them detailing the sort code and account number. I keep this email - incase they accidently (or not) provide the wrong data. I always check that they have received the funds also within a day.
One question here clearly anyone who receive such funds must declare it on their self assessment to pay the due tax otherwise its untaxed income.
In addition what if you receive say £1,500 credit in such a situation and you were due to pay in a similar amount to say pay for a bill. Given the credit you dont pay in the amount you would normally do and let the bill payments be taken out of those funds. You then decide to keep that £1.5k you didnt need to tfr in a savings account and ensure you run the other account really low so that it wouldnt be possible to remove £1.5k as the balance and overdraft limit are far too low.
Welshbeef said:
One question here clearly anyone who receive such funds must declare it on their self assessment to pay the due tax otherwise its untaxed income.
You're kidding, right? Keeping money you know you're not entitled to is fraud or theft. Paying income tax on criminal gains will hardly be on their agenda.Welshbeef said:
In addition what if you receive say £1,500 credit in such a situation and you were due to pay in a similar amount to say pay for a bill. Given the credit you dont pay in the amount you would normally do and let the bill payments be taken out of those funds. You then decide to keep that £1.5k you didnt need to tfr in a savings account and ensure you run the other account really low so that it wouldnt be possible to remove £1.5k as the balance and overdraft limit are far too low.
Whether there's money in the account or not has no bearing on whether it can be taken back. (i.e. there can be funds but no powers to take it back, but likewise, if there's no funds but there are powers then you'll just find yourself with an unauthorised overdraft.)Ok take it to the extreme.
Somehow £5m is paid into your curr a/c.
Some reason you decide happy days.
You empty the account in cash close down all other accounts cash withdrawl.
Leave the country.
Or take it cash to the casino put it all on black say you win give back the original £5m you clarly keep the rest, OR say you lose and you had a £100k house a 15 year old car not through choice but thats all you had... what then? You have no means to pay it back and ot even a fraction of it - in fact you could claim youd played Monoploy a fair bit and had won Bak Error in your favour a few times thought it was a genuine thing not just a correction of too much taken from you previusly.
Last time I bought a house I had a £300k deposit sat in my current account - I had to tfr it to the solicitor. I checked double checked triple checked and did that for about twenty mins then asked the bank to confirm that I had the correct details and the solicitor to yet again confirm their details.
The tfr (Chaps) took what seemed like all day I was SO relieved when the sol called to confirm full receipt of the funds.
Somehow £5m is paid into your curr a/c.
Some reason you decide happy days.
You empty the account in cash close down all other accounts cash withdrawl.
Leave the country.
Or take it cash to the casino put it all on black say you win give back the original £5m you clarly keep the rest, OR say you lose and you had a £100k house a 15 year old car not through choice but thats all you had... what then? You have no means to pay it back and ot even a fraction of it - in fact you could claim youd played Monoploy a fair bit and had won Bak Error in your favour a few times thought it was a genuine thing not just a correction of too much taken from you previusly.
Last time I bought a house I had a £300k deposit sat in my current account - I had to tfr it to the solicitor. I checked double checked triple checked and did that for about twenty mins then asked the bank to confirm that I had the correct details and the solicitor to yet again confirm their details.
The tfr (Chaps) took what seemed like all day I was SO relieved when the sol called to confirm full receipt of the funds.
^ In answer to that, if you steal more money than you can pay back then I expect you'd be made bankrupt and go to prison. Whoever lost the money would have to stomach it. I don't think there's insurance against this kind of thing, so all you can do is sue the offender but if they're bankrupt you end up out of pocket.
This kind of thing goes on ALL THE TIME under other circumstances. (e.g. someone takes out a credit card, spends up, goes bankrupt and doesn't pay a penny. The lender has no recourse as they are bankrupt.)
This kind of thing goes on ALL THE TIME under other circumstances. (e.g. someone takes out a credit card, spends up, goes bankrupt and doesn't pay a penny. The lender has no recourse as they are bankrupt.)
I instructed RBS by fax to electronically transfer a 5 figure sum to Lombard's receipt account to pay off the missus' car loan on March 29th. Last night (Apr.7th) the bloke who wants to buy her car phoned to say its HPI check was showing outstanding finance. Puzzled, I checked the docs to find the RBS fax I'd sent had 1 digit wrong on the agreement number! So I phoned the business unit on the 24 hour electronic banking helpline. A manager type assured me that my money would be bouncing around a suspense account looking for a home to go to (and wouldn't have been paid into some stranger's account). This morning (April 8th) customer services at Lombard did indeed find the money swimming in a suspense account and sorted it out.
What puzzles me is how Lombard can receive a payment of 10's of thousands of pounds which appears to have no account to allocate it against, and not recourse to the sender for some further explanation.
What puzzles me is how Lombard can receive a payment of 10's of thousands of pounds which appears to have no account to allocate it against, and not recourse to the sender for some further explanation.
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