Biomass Boilers - Anyone got one?
Discussion
We looked into biomass but the logistics killed it off for us. You would need to be constantly restocking/seasoning/preparing wood for a log burner, ditto with wood chip. With pellets you need quite a complex set up in terms of storage and feeder systems and you are reliant on outside suppliers, and they are not cheap. Also, iirc, there is for some reason some indexation on the price of pellets that links them to the price of oil.
A few companies are now starting to offer hybrid systems that combine PV panels, solar panels and air or ground source heat pumps with existing heating systems, and this is probably the way we will go.
A few companies are now starting to offer hybrid systems that combine PV panels, solar panels and air or ground source heat pumps with existing heating systems, and this is probably the way we will go.
RedLeicester said:
What did he have before? I'm being quoted £12-1500 a year for pellets which compares to £3500 (and ever rising) on oil....?
It was there when he bought the house about four years ago. Massive thing in the garage and a shed outside for the pellets. Maybe he just has an old/bad design?Ken Sington said:
Also, iirc, there is for some reason some indexation on the price of pellets that links them to the price of oil.
Oooh shiiiite. Not heard of that, or at least not one of the suppliers has dared mention it...Ken Sington said:
A few companies are now starting to offer hybrid systems that combine PV panels, solar panels and air or ground source heat pumps with existing heating systems, and this is probably the way we will go.
Aaah that wasn't quite what I meant - we will certainly be spreading the load in that sense with Solar PV and Solar Thermal, plus either GSHP or Biomass. What I meant by hybrid is the new generation of gassification Biomass boilers that can take BOTH pellets and wood - so I can split my usage between stacked and stored logs and pellets (and double up the loads thus doubling the burn time before needing refuelling).As for space and logistics, we have 18 acres with several outbuildings so storing logs isn't going to be too much trouble (and the felling/logging saves on the gym membership!). I'd seen the "automatic" pellet feeder systems which did look clever, but added about £2k to the cost, but then again, a simple pellet pallet (snigger) and occasional tipping up of a sack isn't the end of the world either...
Ken Sington said:
Also, iirc, there is for some reason some indexation on the price of pellets that links them to the price of oil.
Been googling this today and can't find any commentary on it - any idea where you heard it? About the only references I can see is that pellets suffer from the same variance in price that logs do: IE for those who are trying to be parsimonious with oil in the depths of winter (or are running out), the local pellet / log suppliers artifically crank up their prices knowing that homeowners are going to have no choice but to swallow it.RedLeicester said:
Been googling this today and can't find any commentary on it - any idea where you heard it? About the only references I can see is that pellets suffer from the same variance in price that logs do: IE for those who are trying to be parsimonious with oil in the depths of winter (or are running out), the local pellet / log suppliers artifically crank up their prices knowing that homeowners are going to have no choice but to swallow it.
I will have a dig around but at the moment my bits of paper and I are some way apart. I know that when I had a quote for a system it made me go 
at the timeKen Sington said:
I will have a dig around but at the moment my bits of paper and I are some way apart. I know that when I had a quote for a system it made me go at the time
Oh certainly - either GSHP or Biomass for here is going to be something around the 20k mark... still with the oil "saving" coupled to next years RHI, both would pay off in around 6, so it's not all bad... at the timeRedLeicester said:
What I meant by hybrid is the new generation of gassification Biomass boilers that can take BOTH pellets and wood - so I can split my usage between stacked and stored logs and pellets (and double up the loads thus doubling the burn time before needing refuelling).
I was speaking to someone the other day about wood chip boilers and remembered your post.He explaind the system to me and we had a good chat about its operation and costs etc.
He said there should be no reason why you couldn't have chips and pellets in the one boiler, but maybe not a mixture at the same time. He did say though that if you have a supply of logs (and a chipper) it is far, far cheaper to use just logs rather than any pellets, but if you wanted you could keep a couple of bags of pellets for the extreme occasion you may run out of chipped logs for whatever reason.
The pellets have more enery per ton (about 20%), but cost about 3 times as much as chips to buy.
HTH
Read somewhere (i can find link if needed) that there is no significant saving over gas or solid fuel (didn't mention oil). In fact could be dearer. There is a Carbon footprint saving that I don't give a toss about and stinks of subsidies and Global Wombling nonsense.
Nothing against burning wood but as soon as Bio-fuels are mentioned it winds me up!
Nothing against burning wood but as soon as Bio-fuels are mentioned it winds me up!
dickymint said:
Read somewhere (i can find link if needed) that there is no significant saving over gas or solid fuel (didn't mention oil). In fact could be dearer. There is a Carbon footprint saving that I don't give a toss about and stinks of subsidies and Global Wombling nonsense.
Nothing against burning wood but as soon as Bio-fuels are mentioned it winds me up!
When the wood is free, and oil is costing £3500pa... that's a significant saving. Agree with you about the wombling though! With most of the "renewable" energy systems there's small if any savings over mains gas, but when that isn't an option out in the sticks and you're hostage to LPG or Oil, there are some pretty hefty savings to be had.Nothing against burning wood but as soon as Bio-fuels are mentioned it winds me up!
Edited by RedLeicester on Friday 13th May 09:21
JM said:
I was speaking to someone the other day about wood chip boilers and remembered your post.
He explaind the system to me and we had a good chat about its operation and costs etc.
He said there should be no reason why you couldn't have chips and pellets in the one boiler, but maybe not a mixture at the same time. He did say though that if you have a supply of logs (and a chipper) it is far, far cheaper to use just logs rather than any pellets, but if you wanted you could keep a couple of bags of pellets for the extreme occasion you may run out of chipped logs for whatever reason.
The pellets have more enery per ton (about 20%), but cost about 3 times as much as chips to buy.
HTH
Cheers chap. I do have a PTO chipper, so that would be easy enough to do, though obvioiusly I'd need a monstrously big store to dry out the chipppings. However, it was a combination of logs and pellets I was thinking of. This boilder - http://www.sht.at/index.php?id=28 - amongst others, has two grates: one for logs and one for pellets, so I could burn logs most of the time and have pellets as a backup.He explaind the system to me and we had a good chat about its operation and costs etc.
He said there should be no reason why you couldn't have chips and pellets in the one boiler, but maybe not a mixture at the same time. He did say though that if you have a supply of logs (and a chipper) it is far, far cheaper to use just logs rather than any pellets, but if you wanted you could keep a couple of bags of pellets for the extreme occasion you may run out of chipped logs for whatever reason.
The pellets have more enery per ton (about 20%), but cost about 3 times as much as chips to buy.
HTH
Ken Sington said:
We looked into biomass but the logistics killed it off for us. You would need to be constantly restocking/seasoning/preparing wood for a log burner, ditto with wood chip. With pellets you need quite a complex set up in terms of storage and feeder systems and you are reliant on outside suppliers, and they are not cheap. Also, iirc, there is for some reason some indexation on the price of pellets that links them to the price of oil.
A few companies are now starting to offer hybrid systems that combine PV panels, solar panels and air or ground source heat pumps with existing heating systems, and this is probably the way we will go.
I think it's normally indexed against the net calorific value of the biomass product in comparison to the price and net CV of oil. i.e. how much biomass do I need to buy to match the calorific value of heating oil and acheive the same level of heat? As such, the price can rise (and fall). They link it to the price of oil because they realise the cost saving to the consumer grows with increasing oil prices, and therefore the price often has nothing to do with the cost of production. There are currently also no defined EU standards for biomass (even though its mostly the same) meaning that the quality of the product in CV terms can vary quite a lot, whereas with heating oil you always know what you get.A few companies are now starting to offer hybrid systems that combine PV panels, solar panels and air or ground source heat pumps with existing heating systems, and this is probably the way we will go.
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