domestic wiring - whats the score?
Discussion
Just bought my first home and I want to do a few electrical jobs to it. I don't know any detail about them, but I'm aware that there are rules around the whole wiring area. Part P, or something.
I'd like to do as much of the work as possible myself to keep the costs down. I would class myself as a "competent person", and for any Qs that crop up I have a friend whose background is electrics, and also can call on a few other contacts to get answers. And of course there is the infinite wisdom of the www.
The house is a semi with 2 floors. Built early 70s and all the existing wiring that I've checked has been the red and black variety (in grey sheath).
I will be wanting to add more mains sockets over time, probably to double what is already there. I have been advised (by the mate with background in electrics) to speak to a spark to get advice on whether I should split the existing single ring main into two. If I do (and I suspect I will be told that I need to because I am thinking of adding a dormer onto the back one day to create two more bedrooms), is this something that I am allowed to do myself? Floor downstairs is concrete, if that affets anything.
The consumer unit is old - massive great grey fuse blocks IYSWIM. This needs to be replaced with a more modern unit with breakers. I guess this is a job that the spark will have to do.
I am decorating the main bedroom upstairs and I want to add more sockets in there. Am I allowed to do this myself? Similar Q for the lighting. There is a single rose at the moment. I havent decided yet, but if I wanted to have a few downlights in there etc, is this something that I am allowed to do myself?
I want to run some wiring to power some external lighting - is this something I am allowed to do myself?
One day Id like to build a garage in the back garden with power to it. How much of this can I do myself?
When I say "am I allowed", I mean is that a job that I can do myself and thats it, or does it need to be checked and signed for in some way by a spark, or is it a job that I shouldnt be going anywhere near?
Cheers
I'd like to do as much of the work as possible myself to keep the costs down. I would class myself as a "competent person", and for any Qs that crop up I have a friend whose background is electrics, and also can call on a few other contacts to get answers. And of course there is the infinite wisdom of the www.
The house is a semi with 2 floors. Built early 70s and all the existing wiring that I've checked has been the red and black variety (in grey sheath).
I will be wanting to add more mains sockets over time, probably to double what is already there. I have been advised (by the mate with background in electrics) to speak to a spark to get advice on whether I should split the existing single ring main into two. If I do (and I suspect I will be told that I need to because I am thinking of adding a dormer onto the back one day to create two more bedrooms), is this something that I am allowed to do myself? Floor downstairs is concrete, if that affets anything.
The consumer unit is old - massive great grey fuse blocks IYSWIM. This needs to be replaced with a more modern unit with breakers. I guess this is a job that the spark will have to do.
I am decorating the main bedroom upstairs and I want to add more sockets in there. Am I allowed to do this myself? Similar Q for the lighting. There is a single rose at the moment. I havent decided yet, but if I wanted to have a few downlights in there etc, is this something that I am allowed to do myself?
I want to run some wiring to power some external lighting - is this something I am allowed to do myself?
One day Id like to build a garage in the back garden with power to it. How much of this can I do myself?
When I say "am I allowed", I mean is that a job that I can do myself and thats it, or does it need to be checked and signed for in some way by a spark, or is it a job that I shouldnt be going anywhere near?
Cheers
Most of that work comes under part p, so they only way you can get away with doing some of it yourself is to do the following:-
- Get a sparky to come round and design it for you (tell you where to run cables)
- Do all the chasing yourself and run the cables (make sure you use correct conduit etc)
- Let the sparky install the consumer unit and connect up all the sockets etc.
- He'll also do all the tests and sign off on the install
If you keep the cables visible then I think he can certify the whole install, and get it registered with the correct body.
- Get a sparky to come round and design it for you (tell you where to run cables)
- Do all the chasing yourself and run the cables (make sure you use correct conduit etc)
- Let the sparky install the consumer unit and connect up all the sockets etc.
- He'll also do all the tests and sign off on the install
If you keep the cables visible then I think he can certify the whole install, and get it registered with the correct body.
I'd suggest getting hold of a copy of the "Electrician's Guide to the Building Regulations".
As well as covering the regulations concerning electrical work in an easy to understand manner, it details minor work that need not be notified to Building Control bodies (and thus can be done by anyone without Part P and part of a self certification scheme).
If you do go it alone without an electrician to sign it off, then anything outside of "minor works" will need to be inspected and tested by Building Control.
As well as covering the regulations concerning electrical work in an easy to understand manner, it details minor work that need not be notified to Building Control bodies (and thus can be done by anyone without Part P and part of a self certification scheme).
If you do go it alone without an electrician to sign it off, then anything outside of "minor works" will need to be inspected and tested by Building Control.
It's certainly worth upgrading the fusebox to the latest rcd type, plus crossbonding if there's nothing already there - an electricians job as they have the test gear certification forms.
Adding sockets and the like is still legal, just, but in kitchens AFAIK you're not even allowed to fit a phone socket anymore, without beingcompetent registered.
Adding sockets and the like is still legal, just, but in kitchens AFAIK you're not even allowed to fit a phone socket anymore, without being
bulb763 said:
Just bought my first home and I want to do a few electrical jobs to it. I don't know any detail about them, but I'm aware that there are rules around the whole wiring area. Part P, or something.
I'd like to do as much of the work as possible myself to keep the costs down. I would class myself as a "competent person", and for any Qs that crop up I have a friend whose background is electrics, and also can call on a few other contacts to get answers. And of course there is the infinite wisdom of the www.
The house is a semi with 2 floors. Built early 70s and all the existing wiring that I've checked has been the red and black variety (in grey sheath).
I will be wanting to add more mains sockets over time, probably to double what is already there. I have been advised (by the mate with background in electrics) to speak to a spark to get advice on whether I should split the existing single ring main into two. If I do (and I suspect I will be told that I need to because I am thinking of adding a dormer onto the back one day to create two more bedrooms), is this something that I am allowed to do myself? Floor downstairs is concrete, if that affets anything.
The consumer unit is old - massive great grey fuse blocks IYSWIM. This needs to be replaced with a more modern unit with breakers. I guess this is a job that the spark will have to do.
I am decorating the main bedroom upstairs and I want to add more sockets in there. Am I allowed to do this myself? Similar Q for the lighting. There is a single rose at the moment. I havent decided yet, but if I wanted to have a few downlights in there etc, is this something that I am allowed to do myself?
I want to run some wiring to power some external lighting - is this something I am allowed to do myself?
One day Id like to build a garage in the back garden with power to it. How much of this can I do myself?
When I say "am I allowed", I mean is that a job that I can do myself and thats it, or does it need to be checked and signed for in some way by a spark, or is it a job that I shouldnt be going anywhere near?
Cheers
Why is the mate with a background in electrics advising you to ask a spark? What exactly is his background, and why can't he answer the questions? If he is unable to answer, why would you be taking notice of the rest of his advice? With respect, I do not believe you are competent to do these works as you are having to seek advice. I don't think you will get it off your mate, internet advice is often dubious and you will get some very bad advice on this forum. I'd like to do as much of the work as possible myself to keep the costs down. I would class myself as a "competent person", and for any Qs that crop up I have a friend whose background is electrics, and also can call on a few other contacts to get answers. And of course there is the infinite wisdom of the www.
The house is a semi with 2 floors. Built early 70s and all the existing wiring that I've checked has been the red and black variety (in grey sheath).
I will be wanting to add more mains sockets over time, probably to double what is already there. I have been advised (by the mate with background in electrics) to speak to a spark to get advice on whether I should split the existing single ring main into two. If I do (and I suspect I will be told that I need to because I am thinking of adding a dormer onto the back one day to create two more bedrooms), is this something that I am allowed to do myself? Floor downstairs is concrete, if that affets anything.
The consumer unit is old - massive great grey fuse blocks IYSWIM. This needs to be replaced with a more modern unit with breakers. I guess this is a job that the spark will have to do.
I am decorating the main bedroom upstairs and I want to add more sockets in there. Am I allowed to do this myself? Similar Q for the lighting. There is a single rose at the moment. I havent decided yet, but if I wanted to have a few downlights in there etc, is this something that I am allowed to do myself?
I want to run some wiring to power some external lighting - is this something I am allowed to do myself?
One day Id like to build a garage in the back garden with power to it. How much of this can I do myself?
When I say "am I allowed", I mean is that a job that I can do myself and thats it, or does it need to be checked and signed for in some way by a spark, or is it a job that I shouldnt be going anywhere near?
Cheers
To answer your specific questions:
- If you split an existing ring in two, you are creating a new circuit - this is notifiable.
- The consumer unit is notifiable.
- Installing additional sockets in the bedroom is not notifiable.
- If you are increasing the floor area, you need to check if extending the ring that you do not exceed the permitted floor area it can serve.
- You may install downlighters without notifying building control provided they are not extra-low voltage or they are part of a CE marked pre-fabricated kit if they are ELV.
- Installing external lighting is notifiable.
- Installing power to a detached outbuilding is notifiable.
The other option is to go through Building Control beforehand. They will inspect and test your works but it will cost you. Previously they would only inspect the first fix and many were then insisting you got somebody in a competent persons' scheme to test it. The Office of the Deputy Prime Minister has clamped down on this and has amended the approved document to say Building Control must include all testing and inspection in the fee. The problem with this route is they will not help you out with the design of the installation and if you make a howler which you then find out you have to put right, you won't be happy.
Please be aware that even if work is not notifiable, it still has to comply with part P.
andy43 said:
It's certainly worth upgrading the fusebox to the latest rcd type, plus crossbonding if there's nothing already there - an electricians job as they have the test gear certification forms.
Adding sockets and the like is still legal, just, but in kitchens AFAIK you're not even allowed to fit a phone socket anymore, without beingcompetent registered.
Anyone can get the forms - I have the ones from the back of the regs in pdf format and can email them to anybody. The point about competent vs. registered is 100% spot on though.Adding sockets and the like is still legal, just, but in kitchens AFAIK you're not even allowed to fit a phone socket anymore, without being
There's a simple table of can/can't in the link in my previous post.
If you think you are able to do it all, just go the BC route as per GLBoss' suggestion.
Otherwise just get a registered electrician in to do everything.
I can't see that it would be worthwhile in cost or convenience to split the work up some pro/some you.
If you think you are able to do it all, just go the BC route as per GLBoss' suggestion.
Otherwise just get a registered electrician in to do everything.
I can't see that it would be worthwhile in cost or convenience to split the work up some pro/some you.
Thanks for all your advice, particularly that pdf link. Copy of that book is also on its way.
As far as being a "competent person" goes, if that phrase refers to just the actual understanding of electrickery and wiring etc, then I would argue that I am. If I need a full understanding of the Part P regulations to be considered competent, then I'll concede that I'm not. Were there no "competent persons" around before Part P?
If the jobs that I've just described (except the new fuse box and external garage) were completed before Part P came in ('95 was it?), then am I right in saying that no notification / certification is required? I suppose if they were completed before '95, and I got the spark round to fit a new CU tomorrow, any tests that he did on his job could show up any problem that might be present in the existing wiring?
Out of interest, what restrictions were there before '95? I'll take a guess and say that a householder was probably allowed to do his own wiring (up to something on a similar level to fitting a new CU) without having to tell anyone. I get the impression that Part P is more of a stealth tax than anything to do with H&S.
As far as being a "competent person" goes, if that phrase refers to just the actual understanding of electrickery and wiring etc, then I would argue that I am. If I need a full understanding of the Part P regulations to be considered competent, then I'll concede that I'm not. Were there no "competent persons" around before Part P?
If the jobs that I've just described (except the new fuse box and external garage) were completed before Part P came in ('95 was it?), then am I right in saying that no notification / certification is required? I suppose if they were completed before '95, and I got the spark round to fit a new CU tomorrow, any tests that he did on his job could show up any problem that might be present in the existing wiring?
Out of interest, what restrictions were there before '95? I'll take a guess and say that a householder was probably allowed to do his own wiring (up to something on a similar level to fitting a new CU) without having to tell anyone. I get the impression that Part P is more of a stealth tax than anything to do with H&S.
bulb763 said:
As far as being a "competent person" goes, if that phrase refers to just the actual understanding of electrickery and wiring etc, then I would argue that I am. If I need a full understanding of the Part P regulations to be considered competent, then I'll concede that I'm not. Were there no "competent persons" around before Part P?
Electricity is reasonably easy to understand. What is more complicated is understanding the regulations and why things go wrong. The regulations you need to understand are the IEE Wiring Regs (BS 7671). They are much more complicated than Part P but the wording of Part P effectively makes them law. There were plenty of competent persons before Part P - generally people who had served an apprenticeship and completed City and Guilds 236 Electrical Installation parts 1&2.bulb763 said:
If the jobs that I've just described (except the new fuse box and external garage) were completed before Part P came in ('95 was it?), then am I right in saying that no notification / certification is required?
Part P came in on the 1st January 2005. Prior to that notification to Building control was not required. Certification would be required under the Electricity at Work Regulations if a contractor did it (but it was rarely issued and rarely checked) but there would be no legal action available to use against the home owner in the case of DIY installations. The supply authority could refuse connection to a dangerous installation (not that they ever checked).bulb763 said:
I suppose if they were completed before '95, and I got the spark round to fit a new CU tomorrow, any tests that he did on his job could show up any problem that might be present in the existing wiring?
The spark must test all the wiring when installing a consumer unit so yes, it could show up any problems but it is not guaranteed to show them all. bulb763 said:
Out of interest, what restrictions were there before '95? I'll take a guess and say that a householder was probably allowed to do his own wiring (up to something on a similar level to fitting a new CU) without having to tell anyone. I get the impression that Part P is more of a stealth tax than anything to do with H&S.
The householder could do anything he wanted but as I said earlier, the supply authorities had powers to disconnect. I like the idea of regulation of electrical installations in principle but part P is badly drafted. It has stopped competent electricians working on their own property and licensed many people with questionable skills and qualifications. I don't think the government or local authorities make any money out of it but the people running the schemes will be quids in.Edited by Ganglandboss on Thursday 12th May 17:57
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