solid wood kitchen worktops

[Toilet Duck]

Hello all,

Currently redoing my kitchen, the new units are in and I need to sort out the worktops. Originally I wanted to go with granite but the cost is prohibitive so I'm now leaning towards solid wood. Unlike granite I will do all the cuts and fit this myself so that saves a packet on labour as well as being cheaper in the first place. What I'm interested in is the experiences of anyone on here who has gone with solid wood. I know you have to oil them now and again to prevent stains/water damage etc which I don't mind. How do they hold up around a cooker, does the heat burn/damage/warp them? Can you cut out and drop in a hob to sit in the work top or do you have to have a complete gap around the oven and therefore nnot have a seperate hob (I can do either as I haven't bought the oven yet)?

4.5 meters will cover it, I need to make an "L" shape one side and a straight 1.4meter length the other side. I want a dark wood, this caught my eye and would cost around £425 for 5 meters:

http://www.worktop-express.co.uk/wood_worktops/wal...

Anyone had any experience of this company? I'm reluctant to order "blind" off the internet but this seems a good price compared to a lot of other sites. I don't know if this is because they have a high turnover etc or because the product quality is cack.

Any help/advce appreciated

[jgmadkit]

Bought a 3m length of beech worktop from them and no probs at all. Delivered quick and without any damage. Had to give the wood a quick going over with a sander before oiling but it looks and feels superb. Don't know how this will stand up in a kitchen as this was for the top of a living room fitted cupboard I made. As far as the company is concerned, no problem at all for me and wood was about a third of the cost of the likes of B&Q.

[Simpo Two]

Toilet Duck said:

How do they hold up around a cooker, does the heat burn/damage/warp them?

I have a built-in oven with hob over, and the wood barely gets warm.

Toilet Duck said:

Can you cut out and drop in a hob to sit in the work top or do you have to have a complete gap around the oven and therefore nnot have a seperate hob (I can do either as I haven't bought the oven yet)?

Normal rules apply - ovens are standard sizes and so fit into the chipboard box. See my photo in the other thread http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... Hob goes in cutout, oven goes underneath as per the installation instructions - very easy indeed.

Toilet Duck said:

4.5 meters will cover it, I need to make an "L" shape one side and a straight 1.4meter length the other side.

The only choice is whether to have a right-angled joint or a mitre. You'll need some decent woodworking equipment to pull that off.

Toilet Duck said:

I'm reluctant to order "blind" off the internet but this seems a good price compared to a lot of other sites.

I used www.withknobson.com/kitchens/wooden-worktops-c-564... - good quality, price and delivery, no problems at all.

One thing I learned was that if you have a storage bin underneath, then the moisture from your potato peelings etc will start to warp the worktop from underneath unless it's firmly fixed down - so seal the underside there too.

Edited by Simpo Two on Saturday 14th May 15:08

[Toilet Duck]

Thanks for the replies so far

jgmadkit said:

Bought a 3m length of beech worktop from them and no probs at all. Delivered quick and without any damage. Had to give the wood a quick going over with a sander before oiling but it looks and feels superb.

Thats good to know!

Simpo Two said:

Toilet Duck said:

How do they hold up around a cooker, does the heat burn/damage/warp them?

I have a built-in oven with hob over, and the wood barely gets warm.

Toilet Duck said:

Can you cut out and drop in a hob to sit in the work top or do you have to have a complete gap around the oven and therefore nnot have a seperate hob (I can do either as I haven't bought the oven yet)?

Normal rules apply - ovens are standard sizes and so fit into the chipboard box. See my photo in the other thread http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... Hob goes in cutout, oven goes underneath as per the installation instructions - very easy indeed.

Nice install Glad the heat from the oven doesn't cause problems

Simpo Two said:

Toilet Duck said:

4.5 meters will cover it, I need to make an "L" shape one side and a straight 1.4meter length the other side.

The only choice is whether to have a right-angled joint or a mitre. You'll need some decent woodworking equipment to pull that off.

I've got a router etc but I dont have the experience of mitreing something as big/thick as a worktop, I wouldn't chance doing it myself because unless the joint is absolutely perfect, it will look terrible. Looking at pics on the web, a lot of them seem to just but up together (not mitred). I would either do that, or I suppose I could pay a chipie to just do the one mitre joint.

This is how the "L" shape bit fits in with the sink. The sink wil have to go across both sections of work top due to size constraints:

Simpo Two said:

Toilet Duck said:

I'm reluctant to order "blind" off the internet but this seems a good price compared to a lot of other sites.

I used www.withknobson.com/kitchens/wooden-worktops-c-564... - good quality, price and delivery, no problems at all.

I'll give them a look.

Simpo Two said:

One thing I learned was that if you have a storage bin underneath, then the moisture from your potato peelings etc will start to warp the worktop from underneath unless it's firmly fixed down - so seal the underside there too.

Duly noted!

[Blakeatron]

You dont want a cut out crossing a joint, so I would not recomend a mitre joint for your instalation. A butt joint with either some dowels or biscuits to help keep the top surface level, and either clamp into place or router out underneath for some proper worktop joints.

I would also paint the internal edges of the cutouts with some pva glue.

[Du1point8]

why not a corner sink like this and then there are no joints to worry about?

[Toilet Duck]

Blakeatron said:

You dont want a cut out crossing a joint, so I would not recomend a mitre joint for your instalation. A butt joint with either some dowels or biscuits to help keep the top surface level, and either clamp into place or router out underneath for some proper worktop joints.

I would also paint the internal edges of the cutouts with some pva glue.

That makes sense. I had planned to use those worktop joint things that you rout out. I will look into how you go about fitting dowels, not sure I've got the tools to do biscuits I need to read up on how they work.

Du1point8 said:

why not a corner sink like this and then there are no joints to worry about?

I want the sink facing the window and not a wall. A corner sink would save a few headaches installation wise though!

[Simpo Two]

It's a pity the sink has to cut across the mitre, if you go for one, because it would look attractive with the staves all lining up. However I see no reason why it can't be done. I'm not geared up for kitchen fitting the professional way but would use a circular saw with fine blade, cut from beneath to stop the grain breaking out, and 1 degree off right angles to ensure the top surface fits - the bottom isn't important. Then screw a decent batten underneath, maybe 3"x1" to secure both sides and keep the surface flush. But that's just my pragmatic first-principles take on it. ATEOTD it's a lump of wood

If you have to keep the sink like that, then the right angled idea would be visually better IMHO, albeit rather dull.

[jardinec]

I have walnut worktops from that very website.

No complaints about them at all, but I personally would not get solid wood again.

Always worried about leaving water on the surface. With 2 young nippers it's a total pain in the arse. I'm handy with DIY but sanding / Danish oil every 6mo or so gets annoying if you have plenty of other jobs to be doing.

They do look rather good though

[Toilet Duck]

Simpo Two said:

It's a pity the sink has to cut across the mitre, if you go for one, because it would look attractive with the staves all lining up.

I know, all lined up would look good. Unfortunately the kitchen isn't particularly big. Even with a 860mm wide sink (single bowl/drainer which is what I'm looking at), it still cuts across both sections of worktop on the "L" section.

Simpo Two said:

However I see no reason why it can't be done. I'm not geared up for kitchen fitting the professional way but would use a circular saw with fine blade, cut from beneath to stop the grain breaking out, and 1 degree off right angles to ensure the top surface fits - the bottom isn't important.

Do you mind elaborating on this please? How does cutting one degree off right angles ensure the top surface fits, I can't get my head around this (no doubt showing my ignorance!)

Simpo Two said:

Then screw a decent batten underneath, maybe 3"x1" to secure both sides and keep the surface flush. But that's just my pragmatic first-principles take on it. ATEOTD it's a lump of wood

I like the idea of using a batten, less chance I'd mess that up compared to getting dowels or biscuits to line up! Sorry, whats "ATEOTD"?

Simpo Two said:

If you have to keep the sink like that, then the right angled idea would be visually better IMHO, albeit rather dull.

I dont think I've got much of a choice, but I'm open to any ideas. Ive added the dimensions below. As you can see, I'd need a sink significantly less than 800mm wide to fit in that section and therefore allow a proper mitre joint between the two worktops, and a sink that small might be too small. The worktop will be 620mm deep.

[Toilet Duck]

jardinec said:

I have walnut worktops from that very website.

No complaints about them at all, but I personally would not get solid wood again.

Always worried about leaving water on the surface. With 2 young nippers it's a total pain in the arse. I'm handy with DIY but sanding / Danish oil every 6mo or so gets annoying if you have plenty of other jobs to be doing.

They do look rather good though

Have you got any pics that you wouldn't mind posting? Did you go for the "standard" walnut or the more expensive American walnut?

May I ask why you wouldn't go for solid wood again, is it purely the combination of kids/oiling/sanding or something worse? Does water easily stain it even if you keep on top of the oiling? I was hoping they would be OK as long as you top the oil up, otherwise its pretty stupid selling them whne they know your going to fit a sink/tap and have water splashing about all the time.

Cheers.

[Simpo Two]

Toilet Duck said:

Do you mind elaborating on this please? How does cutting one degree off right angles ensure the top surface fits, I can't get my head around this (no doubt showing my ignorance!)

Well, if you just take a circular saw and set it to 'vertical' there is every chance that it will be slightly out, and knowing sod's law, the wrong way out - in other words your worktops will fit perfectly underneath but there will be a 1mm crack along the top because the cut surfaces are not exactly at 90 degrees. Which would be a bugger. Setting the saw deliberately the other way avoids this risk - the top edges will butt perfectly and it doesn't matter if there's a fingernail's gap underneath. (Not too much of course or it will show at the front). I'm assuming you use a fence too of course - in this case a batten securely clamped across the worktop to act as a guide.

Toilet Duck said:

I like the idea of using a batten, less chance I'd mess that up compared to getting dowels or biscuits to line up! Sorry, whats "ATEOTD"?

At the end of the day

Toilet Duck said:

I dont think I've got much of a choice, but I'm open to any ideas.

What about two inset round sinks?

[russ_a]

I have just had 3 Black Walnut worktops installed from that site. 2 are perfect the third however, has split due to faults in the worktop.

Lets say the have been less than receptive about sending a replacement even though the one worktop is damaged. Hopefully, they will see this thread!!

Don't let this put you off using solid wood though, we had Walnut in the last house and it never warped. However, we did not use Danish Oil to seal but a commercial sealant called PV67. This creates a totally waterproof seal and lasts about 3 years before it needs doing again.

Will post some pics up later.

[eliot]

Du1point8 said:

why not a corner sink like this and then there are no joints to worry about?

Where do you put all your pots and pans once you have washed them up?

[Toilet Duck]

Simpo Two said:

Well, if you just take a circular saw and set it to 'vertical' there is every chance that it will be slightly out, and knowing sod's law, the wrong way out - in other words your worktops will fit perfectly underneath but there will be a 1mm crack along the top because the cut surfaces are not exactly at 90 degrees. Which would be a bugger. Setting the saw deliberately the other way avoids this risk - the top edges will butt perfectly and it doesn't matter if there's a fingernail's gap underneath. (Not too much of course or it will show at the front).

I still can't get my head around this . Is it because the worktop is a thick material? I just can't understand in my mind how cutting 1 degree off of square makes (only) the top edge butt up perfectly .

Simpo Two said:

What about two inset round sinks?

I hadn't thought of that. I'll have a look around, and see whats available. I know your attached photo was just for an example, but I don't want a stainless sink as I think they look a bit too "clinical" for my personal taste

russ_a said:

I have just had 3 Black Walnut worktops installed from that site. 2 are perfect the third however, has split due to faults in the worktop.

I'm sorry to hear that . Was it split when it arrived or did it happen after it was fitted?

russ_a said:

Lets say the have been less than receptive about sending a replacement even though the one worktop is damaged. Hopefully, they will see this thread!!

Thats not good to hear.

russ_a said:

Don't let this put you off using solid wood though, we had Walnut in the last house and it never warped. However, we did not use Danish Oil to seal but a commercial sealant called PV67. This creates a totally waterproof seal and lasts about 3 years before it needs doing again.

Is this the stuff?

http://www.sadolin.co.uk/professional/products/tim...

russ_a said:

Will post some pics up later.

Cool, thanks!

[bga]

russ_a said:

I have just had 3 Black Walnut worktops installed from that site. 2 are

Lets say the have been less than receptive about sending a replacement even though the one worktop is damaged. Hopefully, they will see this thread!!

I used them for some iroko worktops. One was good condition, the other less so. Fortunately the sink recess matched up with the faulty area so we didn't need to return the 5m length.

[Guffy]

eliot said:

Where do you put all your pots and pans once you have washed them up?

There'll be in the dishwasher

I've had walnut from them too, some cut marks that had to be worked around. Biggest issue though... have 3 indentations in the wood, where cups etc have been fumbled, dropped and always landing on the sharpest edge

[DodgeRam Van Man]

Toilet Duck said:

I still can't get my head around this . Is it because the worktop is a thick material? I just can't understand in my mind how cutting 1 degree off of square makes (only) the top edge butt up perfectly .

I think what he's saying is cut the worktop so it looks like this (side on): /\

Can't say I've ever heard of this as a preferred method though. The correct way is to 'rough' cut it with a circular saw to get the approximate length, then skim the end with a straight cut router bit in a decent 1/2" router which will get the edge perfectly square.
You'd probably be able to join using a 'Mason's Mitre', which is the normal way to joint two worktops at a 90 degree angle with minimal wastage and means your sink won't cut through the mitre (if you mitre the correct side!)

[Simpo Two]

Toilet Duck said:

I still can't get my head around this . Is it because the worktop is a thick material?

Yes. Any slight error in 'verticality' will be evident over the 40mm thickness.

Toilet Duck said:

I just can't understand in my mind how cutting 1 degree off of square makes (only) the top edge butt up perfectly

Imagine you're squatting at worktop height sighting down the end of the cut - does that help? Perfectly vertical is great, but tricky to achieve over a 40mm depth of cut. If it is slightly 'out' one way then the error will be underneath so unimportant; BUT if the error is the other way it will be visible on top (a gap).

• Unless.. genius idea... you made both cuts from the same direction, so that if one side was 89 degrees the other would be 91 degrees and so give a perfect butt joint.

Toilet Duck said:

I hadn't thought of that. I'll have a look around, and see whats available. I know your attached photo was just for an example, but I don't want a stainless sink as I think they look a bit too "clinical" for my personal taste

I think I've seen black ones, not sure. Go to a big showroom, have a poke about and bring home some brochures to ponder.

Edited by Simpo Two on Sunday 15th May 17:51

[Blakeatron]

^^ Poor form and workmanship to cut a joint off square, sorry but that is just a fact.

Yes you have a better chance of getting a nicer top edge joint - but you will have an increasing gap on the front corner. For a wall scribe joint then fine, on a worktop not a chance.

For the poster worried about damaging his tops, have you tried a different finish. Oil and wax finishes are easily repaired. I have started using a liquid wax from polyvine, seems easier to apply and so far seems to outlast other wax finishes (inc osma).

Also personally I hate round sinks, washing up in them is a nightmare


To remove dents ; moisten a tissue (quite damp) and use a clothes iron to steam the dent, it will eventually rise. Lightly sand and then re-oil.

Edited by Blakeatron on Sunday 15th May 20:15