Electrics - its shocking !
Discussion
I bought a Miele washer dryer about a year ago. Its done us proud, but this morning i went to empty it of washed clothes and noticed a strange sensation. I was holding the kitchen sink with one hand and touching the inner drum of the machine with the other and noticed a vibration or buzzing in my arm.
Being an engineer, i promptly went of to find my multimeter and measured the AC voltage between the sink and the machine drum. It measured 110 V.
Now, this started me thinking. A few months ago, we had a new kitchen floor fitted. Part of the work included taking of the kick panels in the kitchen. I used this opportunity to add a kick panel heater. In order to add this, i had to change the single undercounter power socket with a double. This is fused just above the worktops.
Whilst laying the floor, i would occasionally receive a similar vibration/buzzing in my arms. I didnt really bother finding out what was causing this at the time.
Could this 110V be a problem with the wiring for my heater? But then why would the machine drum be at 110v?
Could it be my wiring of the additional socket (all i did was change the single for a double) again, i guess a mistake here would be a fuse blowing rather than 110V at the machine?
Any help appreciated !!
Being an engineer, i promptly went of to find my multimeter and measured the AC voltage between the sink and the machine drum. It measured 110 V.
Now, this started me thinking. A few months ago, we had a new kitchen floor fitted. Part of the work included taking of the kick panels in the kitchen. I used this opportunity to add a kick panel heater. In order to add this, i had to change the single undercounter power socket with a double. This is fused just above the worktops.
Whilst laying the floor, i would occasionally receive a similar vibration/buzzing in my arms. I didnt really bother finding out what was causing this at the time.
Could this 110V be a problem with the wiring for my heater? But then why would the machine drum be at 110v?
Could it be my wiring of the additional socket (all i did was change the single for a double) again, i guess a mistake here would be a fuse blowing rather than 110V at the machine?
Any help appreciated !!
.Can you plug it into an extension lead from another circuit and see if you still get the voltage?
If not, obviously the machine is not at fault - primarily check the earth to the socket as best you can, but also the other wires - but if you can't see/measure a problem then get a good electrician in to check your house wiring pronto.
If you still get a shock plugged in to another circuit, I'd get an electrician in quick first if I were you - he'll quickly identify if it is the machine, which I doubt - or call the warranty guy first to eliminate the machine if you don't want to risk wasting a few quid.
If not, obviously the machine is not at fault - primarily check the earth to the socket as best you can, but also the other wires - but if you can't see/measure a problem then get a good electrician in to check your house wiring pronto.
If you still get a shock plugged in to another circuit, I'd get an electrician in quick first if I were you - he'll quickly identify if it is the machine, which I doubt - or call the warranty guy first to eliminate the machine if you don't want to risk wasting a few quid.
Edited by Mr GrimNasty on Thursday 19th May 21:50
About twenty years ago I had a similar problem with a new Hotpoint but I think I had about 50 volts. It turned out that the socket on the wall (a brand new one) had no continuity through it's neutral side and the machine was running through live and earth (or so the Hotpoint engineer said)
Anyway, a new socket cured it. May be worth you checking for full continuity.
Anyway, a new socket cured it. May be worth you checking for full continuity.
"Any ideas how that can be done?"
Either very poor (DIY probably) wiring attempts or tracking of electrical paths in materials that should be 100% insulating - damp/faulty/breakdown/broken/overloaded or whatever.
Honestly, save the children and animals, get a qualified electrician in instead of getting people to guess on the internet - and I don't normally find myself suggesting that!
Either very poor (DIY probably) wiring attempts or tracking of electrical paths in materials that should be 100% insulating - damp/faulty/breakdown/broken/overloaded or whatever.
Honestly, save the children and animals, get a qualified electrician in instead of getting people to guess on the internet - and I don't normally find myself suggesting that!
Mr GrimNasty said:
Honestly, save the children and animals, get a qualified electrician in instead of getting people to guess on the internet - and I don't normally find myself suggesting that!
I'd agree with this - if you were getting electric shocks whilst laying the floor there's every chance you're running the risk of a fire and/or an untimely end - chafed wiring in the wall or floor cavity etc. is a possibility.Ray Singh said:
I will call a proffesional.
Ok - being an Indian i decided to try looking at this myself.I checked the earth points under the sink on the cold water pipe. These were loose so i tightened them up. This made no difference to the washing machine problem. There was still 110v between the sink and the drum of the machine.
I plugged the machine into a different socket and there was no voltage measuring between the drum and sink. So this pointed to the plug socket.
I took the plug socket apart after switching off at the main fuse box. I noticed that the earth wire inside the socket was not connected. I connected this and put everything back together and checked the voltage between the drum and the sink and now it is mVolts.
So sorted. But i wonder. Any appliance should work without a earth connection and fail safe would be that the drum doesnt go live?
Any ideas?
Based on what you've already mentioned further up the page you may find another fault - not connecting the earth shouldn't make the drum live and doesn't explain why you would feel a shock whilst laying the floor.
Maybe someone will be along shortly who knows better, but I would be inclined to look for some basic test equipment to check the wiring to the different outlets in the kitchen - and also test the earth continuity to a decent grounded post or something. You may find you've just hiked the kitchen sink to 110V when the washer is running!
Maybe someone will be along shortly who knows better, but I would be inclined to look for some basic test equipment to check the wiring to the different outlets in the kitchen - and also test the earth continuity to a decent grounded post or something. You may find you've just hiked the kitchen sink to 110V when the washer is running!
oldcynic said:
Also there are plug-in 3 pin plug testers which should show if there's an error.
We used to use one of these to make sure that the mains supply in the caravan was the right polarity etc when we hooked up to the car or to the camp site power supply. Handy little gizmo and very cheap. Google for 'mains socket tester' and there's loads to pick from.
I'm more of a "Who dares, wins" mentality than the type who has to carry out a H&S assessment on the sink before doing the washing up - but I wouldn't be without an RCD. Literally (and definitely in my case and my mother in law's case) lifesavers. If you don't want the expense of a new consumer unit you can get one installed between the main switch and the consumer unit.Modern house (circa 10 years old) with RCDs on all circuits. These are sometimes annoyingly sensitive. I have checked voltages between the drum and earth pipe, sink etc etc and its all clean.
I will visit my favorite shop today (maplins) and see if i can buy a tester as mentioned above.
As i mentioned, something is wrong, the drum should never go to 110v no matter what.
I will visit my favorite shop today (maplins) and see if i can buy a tester as mentioned above.
As i mentioned, something is wrong, the drum should never go to 110v no matter what.
Unplug the washing machine and then check continuity between the pins on the plug (to each other) and to the drum etc. That should maybe, tell whether the issue is in the machine or not.
But as you said you were getting shocks before the machine was fitted/plugged in and on, then it does sound more like a wiring issue.
IANAE
(I Am Not An Electrician)
But as you said you were getting shocks before the machine was fitted/plugged in and on, then it does sound more like a wiring issue.
IANAE
(I Am Not An Electrician)
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