Covenents(silly ones)
Discussion
It all depends on how your neighbours are...
We had some problems at an old address with neighbours who was running a puppy farm (ie a business) from their house (and gardens obviously) the noise, smell, s
t being thrown over the fence and amount of vehicular comings and goings at all times of the day and night / early hours were hell. Council (neither planning or environmental health) were not interested in the slightest and advised us to engage a civil legal enforcement of the covenants which prohibited anything other than a professional buiness (doctors / dentists / legal) being carried on at the address.
In the end we didn't bother and bided our time for a couple of years and moved on and up to a bigger house as we had intended to anyway.
Our current house is on an estate development and thus everyone has the same deeds / covenants.
Ours (and all our heighbours) include clauses about no parking of caravans or trailers or any type of van, whether car derived or larger in front of the house or on the drive, no adding fences or hedges to the front perimeters of plots, no working on any motor vehicle anywhere on the property (other than for minor repairs or servicing) for more than 24 hours; working on any type of engine anywhere on the property (automotive or otherwise) is prohibited etc etc
Most of the guys here have vans on the drive (prohibited). At least a third of us have long term project vehicles in garages or on drives covered with tarpaulins(prohibited). Two houses have caravans on their drives (prohibited). Half the houses have added picket fences or hedges (prohibited).
Do any of the fifteen other households in our close take any notice of or stir up the st about other neighbours over covenant issues other than the normal day to day gossip and backstabbing - no.
When I've casually spoken to some of the other gearheads that live here they weren't even aware of the covenants in their deeds and how they were breaking them.
I'd say you are pretty safe with your "For Sale" sign and in the event of a challenge a quick apology followed by uprooting the sign would likely fix things.
HTH
Cheers
Jon
We had some problems at an old address with neighbours who was running a puppy farm (ie a business) from their house (and gardens obviously) the noise, smell, s
t being thrown over the fence and amount of vehicular comings and goings at all times of the day and night / early hours were hell. Council (neither planning or environmental health) were not interested in the slightest and advised us to engage a civil legal enforcement of the covenants which prohibited anything other than a professional buiness (doctors / dentists / legal) being carried on at the address.In the end we didn't bother and bided our time for a couple of years and moved on and up to a bigger house as we had intended to anyway.
Our current house is on an estate development and thus everyone has the same deeds / covenants.
Ours (and all our heighbours) include clauses about no parking of caravans or trailers or any type of van, whether car derived or larger in front of the house or on the drive, no adding fences or hedges to the front perimeters of plots, no working on any motor vehicle anywhere on the property (other than for minor repairs or servicing) for more than 24 hours; working on any type of engine anywhere on the property (automotive or otherwise) is prohibited etc etc
Most of the guys here have vans on the drive (prohibited). At least a third of us have long term project vehicles in garages or on drives covered with tarpaulins(prohibited). Two houses have caravans on their drives (prohibited). Half the houses have added picket fences or hedges (prohibited).
Do any of the fifteen other households in our close take any notice of or stir up the s
t about other neighbours over covenant issues other than the normal day to day gossip and backstabbing - no.When I've casually spoken to some of the other gearheads that live here they weren't even aware of the covenants in their deeds and how they were breaking them.
I'd say you are pretty safe with your "For Sale" sign and in the event of a challenge a quick apology followed by uprooting the sign would likely fix things.
HTH
Cheers
Jon
Simpo Two said:
Who enforces them?
They are civil matters, so the enforcement would have to come through the courts via whoever put the covenant on in the first instance (or any subsequent owner of the covenant). The reason councils aren't interested is simply because they have no powers to enforce or control civil covenants as they don't come under public legislation.Developers permission features in a lot of deeds as a covenant.
At the puppy farm house the guy we bought from had added a very nice conservatory with all the right planning permissions and buiding control sign-offs but he didn't have the developers permission.
Our solicitor made him get that permission, which came from the developers who had bought the developers that bought the developers if you see what I mean.
Very hard work for the guy we bought off and he had to shell out a shedload of money to do it properly and lucky our solicitor was on the ball as when we sold our buyers solicitor immediately asked for the permission docs as well.
At the puppy farm house the guy we bought from had added a very nice conservatory with all the right planning permissions and buiding control sign-offs but he didn't have the developers permission.
Our solicitor made him get that permission, which came from the developers who had bought the developers that bought the developers if you see what I mean.
Very hard work for the guy we bought off and he had to shell out a shedload of money to do it properly and lucky our solicitor was on the ball as when we sold our buyers solicitor immediately asked for the permission docs as well.
Our last place had one from ~1780 stating the cellar should not be made into a habitable room... a lovely kitchen diner it was too.
I'd expect some to be more actively enforced than others.
A For Sale board... if everyone else flouts it and just puts them up, then I'd probably allow the agent to do the same; however, it's only a sign, I'd be more keen to ensure the agent got the details right and lobbed it on rightmove quickly (or in fact found a buyer!)
I'd expect some to be more actively enforced than others.
A For Sale board... if everyone else flouts it and just puts them up, then I'd probably allow the agent to do the same; however, it's only a sign, I'd be more keen to ensure the agent got the details right and lobbed it on rightmove quickly (or in fact found a buyer!)
The developer probably imposed the covenant and provided the wording of the sale contracts was correct probably passed on the benefit of that covenant to all the house purchasers. Only those benefitting and affected by the restricted actions can enforce the covenants and the developer probably now doesn't own any property nearby to benefit from the covenant so cannot enforce it.
So your neighbours could take action which would be an injunction or/and damages. Who would bother for a For Sale sign?
So your neighbours could take action which would be an injunction or/and damages. Who would bother for a For Sale sign?
My last house was bought new with a "no aerials" covenant unless you apply for planning permission. Absolutely stupid IMO. So a few of us put up Sky dishes. One neighbour reported us all, and we all received letters from the council to apply for retrospective planning permission, or take the aerials down. I replied "OK, send the forms and I'll do it". Forms arrived, and had to be filled out in quadruplet 
. Mate across the way got the same, so I'd thought I'd wait to see what he had to go through.
First, the council sent out the wrong forms. So new ones were sent. Mate also had to request a 1:125 scale drawing of the estate (at a cost of £30) to indicate where the sky dish is. Then sent off all 4 forms & drawing. They wrote back saying that he had to come in to the office to sort something out. So, a day off work, only to be there 5 minutes, and planing permission granted. Complete waste of time, money IMO.
So I decide to file the forms in the bin. About a month later a I received a threatening letter from the council about having to remove my sky dish, and that I'd promised to apply for RPP. My reply included the laughable process my mate went through, and that I believed the whole process was too bureaucratic and was a waste of time. They replied, and pretty much agreed with me. House was sold a couple of years later with nothing showing on searches.
. Mate across the way got the same, so I'd thought I'd wait to see what he had to go through. First, the council sent out the wrong forms. So new ones were sent. Mate also had to request a 1:125 scale drawing of the estate (at a cost of £30) to indicate where the sky dish is. Then sent off all 4 forms & drawing. They wrote back saying that he had to come in to the office to sort something out. So, a day off work, only to be there 5 minutes, and planing permission granted. Complete waste of time, money IMO.
So I decide to file the forms in the bin. About a month later a I received a threatening letter from the council about having to remove my sky dish, and that I'd promised to apply for RPP. My reply included the laughable process my mate went through, and that I believed the whole process was too bureaucratic and was a waste of time. They replied, and pretty much agreed with me. House was sold a couple of years later with nothing showing on searches.
I'm only allowed to quarry stone and to burn lime to complete the construction of my house... though some 120 years since it was built might make a flurry of quarrying and lime-burning difficult to justify. Covenants only matter if they are likely to be invoked or when a buyer thinks that they might be. Usually when someone wants to do something controversial which many neighbours will object to. For example:
http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/Kick-touchplans-new...
http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/Kick-touchplans-new...
My parents used to live in an ex vicarage, it had a whole host of covenents on it including;
Not being able to complain about the church bells
Parishoners rights to walk through garden
Not being able to maintain the garden on a Sunday
No burning fires during services in the adjoining church
etc etc
My Dad's favorite one was that the property could not be used as a "House of ill repute" naming "Brothel" under the various examples, as he always said the chance would be a fine thing!
Not being able to complain about the church bells
Parishoners rights to walk through garden
Not being able to maintain the garden on a Sunday
No burning fires during services in the adjoining church
etc etc
My Dad's favorite one was that the property could not be used as a "House of ill repute" naming "Brothel" under the various examples, as he always said the chance would be a fine thing!
stu67 said:
My parents used to live in an ex vicarage, it had a whole host of covenents on it including;
Not being able to complain about the church bells
Parishoners rights to walk through garden
Not being able to maintain the garden on a Sunday
No burning fires during services in the adjoining church
etc etc
My Dad's favorite one was that the property could not be used as a "House of ill repute" naming "Brothel" under the various examples, as he always said the chance would be a fine thing!
The real danger with ex-Church property is finding that you are a "lay rector" http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/mid/3023276.stmNot being able to complain about the church bells
Parishoners rights to walk through garden
Not being able to maintain the garden on a Sunday
No burning fires during services in the adjoining church
etc etc
My Dad's favorite one was that the property could not be used as a "House of ill repute" naming "Brothel" under the various examples, as he always said the chance would be a fine thing!
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