Brick ties as remedial work
Discussion
Anyone got knowledge of these? i have a 1930's house which has the typical of the time dark 'decorative' bricks to the front with regular bricks to the side and rear. it's been picked up on survey that the brick ties are failing and need replacing - this has been made a condition of mortgage.
Because the brickwork is quite dark i'm concerned that i'll end up with dots all over the front of the house.
I had an email from a company who gave me the impression they'd go through the mortar and colour match that which sounded appealing as it's easier to fully re-point than replace bricks.. but i cant find mention of this method on the internet.
The current company quoting for the work say they will drill through the bricks, and (i may have got this wrong) use a colour matched mortar to fill in the hole. they claim to re-use some of the dust from drilling the brick in the colour match.
There is a house a couple of roads away thats had wall ties done and even though the dots are a similar colour to the bricks you can still see them clearly.
What options are there for this work?
Thanks
Chris
Because the brickwork is quite dark i'm concerned that i'll end up with dots all over the front of the house.
I had an email from a company who gave me the impression they'd go through the mortar and colour match that which sounded appealing as it's easier to fully re-point than replace bricks.. but i cant find mention of this method on the internet.
The current company quoting for the work say they will drill through the bricks, and (i may have got this wrong) use a colour matched mortar to fill in the hole. they claim to re-use some of the dust from drilling the brick in the colour match.
There is a house a couple of roads away thats had wall ties done and even though the dots are a similar colour to the bricks you can still see them clearly.
What options are there for this work?
Thanks
Chris
Do you have any photos of the house?
Looking at the type of brickwork bond will give a good indication if it is cavity wall - some houses were built in this era using cast iron ties which can rust and fail but the surveyor would only be able to determine this if he has seen an area of wall bowing and the outer leaf starting to separate.
Looking at the type of brickwork bond will give a good indication if it is cavity wall - some houses were built in this era using cast iron ties which can rust and fail but the surveyor would only be able to determine this if he has seen an area of wall bowing and the outer leaf starting to separate.
Most of the 20s/30s houses in my area are 50-75 mm cavity wall with iron black-japanned fish-tail ties. As the ends rust they expand and force the masonry apart so you get horizontal lines in brickwork and render, long before they rust through and fail completely when bowing can start. So as well as inserting remedial ties it may be necessary to remove the old ones. I‘ve always found ‘Twistfix’ very helpful, if you contact them, I’m sure they can suggest something that meets your technical requirements.
They are definitely cavity walls, the current ties are like a coat hanger curved at both ends twisted in the middle.
The valuer asked for a survey of them and a company did that with a camera by drilling into the cavity at various places.
Can't see any signs of damage yet from failure.
The valuer asked for a survey of them and a company did that with a camera by drilling into the cavity at various places.
Can't see any signs of damage yet from failure.
So what is their evidence of failure? Did the camera pictures show them actually rusting through? Anyway, as I said, contact 'twistfix' if you want informal advice on the best type of remedial tie/method of installation for your situation. They can of course be put in from indoors if you would rather redecorate than have defaced bricks which I quite understand.
I'm sure you can. But I think it's mainly that going though the solid part of a brick gives a more reliable fixing, whether using an expansive tie or a resin in one. The mortar face can look OK as it's often been re-pointed, but behind there can be large hollows (especially in the brick frogs) and lime mortar will be no more than loose sand in many cases, only held in by a crusty surface and the weight of the wall above.
Mr GrimNasty said:
I'm sure you can. But I think it's mainly that going though the solid part of a brick gives a more reliable fixing, whether using an expansive tie or a resin in one. The mortar face can look OK as it's often been re-pointed, but behind there can be large hollows (especially in the brick frogs) and lime mortar will be no more than loose sand in many cases, only held in by a crusty surface and the weight of the wall above.
Thought as much. Then this should suit the OP as it wouldn't show anywhere near as much.dickymint said:
Mr GrimNasty said:
I'm sure you can. But I think it's mainly that going though the solid part of a brick gives a more reliable fixing, whether using an expansive tie or a resin in one. The mortar face can look OK as it's often been re-pointed, but behind there can be large hollows (especially in the brick frogs) and lime mortar will be no more than loose sand in many cases, only held in by a crusty surface and the weight of the wall above.
Thought as much. Then this should suit the OP as it wouldn't show anywhere near as much.The twist/drill friction type won't work at all, or you will have difficulty inserting a lot more than necessary very expensive resin into a dusty/unstable orifice, or the expansive ties will fail to get the 'grip' they need to open and expand into a secure substrate.
Mr GrimNasty said:
dickymint said:
Mr GrimNasty said:
I'm sure you can. But I think it's mainly that going though the solid part of a brick gives a more reliable fixing, whether using an expansive tie or a resin in one. The mortar face can look OK as it's often been re-pointed, but behind there can be large hollows (especially in the brick frogs) and lime mortar will be no more than loose sand in many cases, only held in by a crusty surface and the weight of the wall above.
Thought as much. Then this should suit the OP as it wouldn't show anywhere near as much.The twist/drill friction type won't work at all, or you will have difficulty inserting a lot more than necessary very expensive resin into a dusty/unstable orifice, or the expansive ties will fail to get the 'grip' they need to open and expand into a secure substrate.
Inside was my first thought but the first company i spoke to about this said they could do it that way but they wouldnt recommend it as it's difficult to be sure what they're drilling into.
My question
"thanks for the quote, quick question if I may, probably a daft one but is it possible to do this from the inside so as not to end up with visible spots on the outside bricks?"
Reply
"Yes thats a possibility but its easier to do it from the outside to locate a bed joint of mortar. From the inside its blind drilling and also there is more hazards like electrical conduit/pipes hidden in walls behind plaster. Patch plastering would be needed inside also. The holes in the outside will be in the mortar and a colour test would be done before i began spot filling with mortar to ensure it blends in."
These are two houses locally where i pass and see every day they've had the work done. whilst it doesnt look too bad and is less noticible in the pictures, the fact it's visible on google maps shows its far from an 'invisible' fix.
My question
"thanks for the quote, quick question if I may, probably a daft one but is it possible to do this from the inside so as not to end up with visible spots on the outside bricks?"
Reply
"Yes thats a possibility but its easier to do it from the outside to locate a bed joint of mortar. From the inside its blind drilling and also there is more hazards like electrical conduit/pipes hidden in walls behind plaster. Patch plastering would be needed inside also. The holes in the outside will be in the mortar and a colour test would be done before i began spot filling with mortar to ensure it blends in."
These are two houses locally where i pass and see every day they've had the work done. whilst it doesnt look too bad and is less noticible in the pictures, the fact it's visible on google maps shows its far from an 'invisible' fix.
TBH I doubt you'd notice the drill holes if you weren't looking for them, whatever way they do it. The hidden hazard risk is pretty even whichever way you drill through - because of the depth required, and you find cables and pipes in cavities all the time. And again, whichever side you drill from first, there is no guarantee what you'll hit on the other skin - air hole, brick, mortar. But it is obvious if are in something solid enough or not (and you can look down the drill hole anyway). If not, abort and try another spot. Going through the joints is fine if they really are consistently solid, but going through the meat of a brick is often the easiest option and every house is different.
Op, Where abouts are you?
Wall tie replacement is my brothers line of work.
If you are local, give him a call and ask him for PH discount!!
www.acewallties.co.uk
Wall tie replacement is my brothers line of work.
If you are local, give him a call and ask him for PH discount!!
www.acewallties.co.uk
I had my Victorian terrace done about 7 years ago. They cut the old ones and fitted new through the bricks, to be honest it's very difficult to spot the drill holes. However where they dig in to break the old ones in the mortar is more difficult to match.
In all though if you walked past my place you wool never know it's been done.
In all though if you walked past my place you wool never know it's been done.
I know you're reluctant to cause any visual damage but if you remove a brick by one of the ties where the inspection was done you'll almost certainly find there is no significant rust; and no need to have the job done.
It's very rare for butterfly ties to significantly corrode in 1930's houses unless it has black ash mortar.
It's very rare for butterfly ties to significantly corrode in 1930's houses unless it has black ash mortar.
I was at a 1930's house today that has had new ties fitted, they are now having an extension.
Whilst knocking through some of the old 1930's ties were exposed, they are as good as the day they were made. Despite looking corroded through a boroscope, apparently.
Whilst there are some houses with failing ties a significant amount of scamming is going on.
Whilst knocking through some of the old 1930's ties were exposed, they are as good as the day they were made. Despite looking corroded through a boroscope, apparently.
Whilst there are some houses with failing ties a significant amount of scamming is going on.
This can be a pain.
As I see it you'd have two courses of action, if you had time. If you've exposed a tie you could invite the Wall Tie Company to reinspect on the basis of better access to the ties and ask for a revised report. A mention of Trading Standards might help if they weren't to helpful.
Sometimes the Valuer would be interested to looking if they're local. In my experience they are often interested to know such information as it helps their knowledge on future similar valuations.
Another option, if the retention is similar to the cost, is not to have it done and not release the retention. Unless you have a time obligation within the mortgage offer to get the work done.
As I see it you'd have two courses of action, if you had time. If you've exposed a tie you could invite the Wall Tie Company to reinspect on the basis of better access to the ties and ask for a revised report. A mention of Trading Standards might help if they weren't to helpful.
Sometimes the Valuer would be interested to looking if they're local. In my experience they are often interested to know such information as it helps their knowledge on future similar valuations.
Another option, if the retention is similar to the cost, is not to have it done and not release the retention. Unless you have a time obligation within the mortgage offer to get the work done.
Gassing Station | Homes, Gardens and DIY | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff