Fishing lake purchase. Should/could I rent to fishermen
Discussion
Been looking at a property not far from me that Mrs F loves. On looking around the village, noticed there is a fishing lake set in 6 acres and stock with the regular fresh water fish up for sale too. (Details mention carp up to 13lbs etc)
Now, not having fished since I was a nipper, I have no knowledge on what a keen amateur fisherman looks for in an ideal spot.
I would like to purchase the lake as the access runs alongside the property we are looking at, albeit owned by a different vendor.
Anyone know what planning I would need or permissions to open it up and start a fishing syndicate.
It has no power, sewage or electric but I was thinking of how it could provide a bit of income.
As it covers about 4 of the 6 acres, there is areas for some camping.
What sort of prices do fishermen pay for spots, would this be a viable small business?
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
Kev
It sounds like a sizeable lake, could you rent it out to some watersports fans?
Something like a kayaking lake or windsurfing area might be a pretty profitable venture, plus you wouldn't have to do much in the way of upkeep - a fishing lake would require lots of testing for toxins (I guess?) and a regular stock check/replenishment.
Something like a kayaking lake or windsurfing area might be a pretty profitable venture, plus you wouldn't have to do much in the way of upkeep - a fishing lake would require lots of testing for toxins (I guess?) and a regular stock check/replenishment.
Haighermeister said:
And if it has good reputation, it is most likely being used a business already....
This is my thinking however the agents are saying the current owner has owned the lake for about 6 years and prefers to 'fish himself with just friends and family whilst enjoying the unspoilt nature surroundings'I have yet to get onto site and have a good look around.
The watersports idea might work but again until I get onto the area, cant see how sheltered it is. I am guessing if lots of shelter then the 'wind' part could be an issue unless I do a fair degree of felling which could be costly and I would guess be against some council or preservation society.
As the access runs up the side and along the back of the property we are looking at, I am not sure I'd love to have the public driving up and down so I will look to see if access could be gained elsewhere but still viewable by us.
There are several different types of fishing lake.
Put-and-take trout lake - Regularly stocked with farmed trout. Usually fly fishing only. Anglers will wander round looking for fish and carrying a rod, bag and net with them, rather than setting up all their gear in one spot and staying put. People pay to fish, with a limited number of fish. When they catch their limit, they buy another ticket or go home. Prices vary regionally, around here you're looking at about £20-30 per day for a three fish ticket. Some waters allow some catch and release. Sometimes run on a syndicate basis, but day tickets more common. Usually fish are rainbow trout stocked at around 2-3lb. Some waters specialise in much larger trout, sometimes 10-20lb fish, sometimes brown trout, and charge much higher ticket rates.
Example:
http://www.churnpool.co.uk/
http://www.lechladetrout.co.uk/
Pros - you tend to get a slightly more genteel kind of customer. They will be quiet. You will not be expected to allow night fishing. You will have a source of trout for your own table.
Cons - trout don't naturally live in small lowland lakes - you will be forever worrying about water temperatures and water quality, indeed the lake may turn out to be completely unsuitable. You will need to worry about people stealing your fish to eat. You will need to police the ticketing and observance of the rules yourself, or pay someone to do it. Punters will expect the banks to be kept to a standard more akin to a park than a natural environment.
Day ticket "commercial" carp fishery - This is coarse fishing, but boiled down to the lowest common denominator. You stock heavily with small carp, and anything else you can get environment agency permission to stock - exotics like orfe, goldfish and sturgeon are not unusual. You put enough fish in that the fishing is very easy - if you stock it heavily enough, there won't be enough natural food without people chucking in loose bait, so the fish have to risk taking angler's baits. These places are popular competition venues (indeed that's what they started out for) because for all their faults they tend to be very equal, removing much of the luck of the draw inherent in fishing competitions on more natural venues. All fish must be returned to the water, but because you will be maintaining unnaturally high stocking levels, you will not be able to rely on natural breeding to keep stocks up, and will periodically have to add more fish.
Example:
http://www.manorfarmfishing.com/ticket-prices.html
Pros - very, very popular. Commercially viable. Night fishing not necessarily expected.
Cons - the water will turn muddy brown and most of the water plants are likely to die off. It will need constant management. You create a massive magnet for fish predators. Some of these places have to install aeration in the summer. I can't think of a delicate way of putting it - amongst all the decent people, this sort of place will also attract the sort of people who, unless adequately controlled, will be noisy and antisocial, won't look after your fish properly, will leave litter, get pissed and stoned and be generally obnoxious. You will have to attend it to collect monies and police behaviour, or pay someone to do so. Ethically dubious, in my opinion.
Traditional day ticket coarse fishery
You basically leave it much to itself, wander down when you can be bothered to check tickets or require people to call at the house and pay before fishing. You tidy the banks up a bit, clear swims, perhaps make platforms, but keep it pretty natural looking and don't invest massively. You can't charge premium prices, perhaps a fiver a day, and probably won't make much profit on it.
Pros - it will be a nicer place to be around, will require minimal management, you won't get the yob element, you'll get more wildlife, you'll have minimal time and money invested, nobody will think it unreasonable if you ask people to be off an hour after dark to an hour before dawn.
Cons - it's not likely to make much money, being day ticket you may still get some slobs leaving litter.
Traditional club coarse fishery
As above, except that you rent it to a fishing club. They take on responsibility for upkeep of the banks, enforcement of the rules, chucking off poachers, banning litter louts, stocking any fish they require. I've no idea what the going rate for rent is. Probably more if you had bigger carp than you have.
Pros - revenue stream with no collection costs. No need to collect monies or enforce rules yourself, nor to look after the place yourself. Littering much less of a problem with a good club. Yobs less likely to join clubs. Probably the least hassle option.
Cons - you will delegate some control, you might want to allow night fishing (I expect you'd get more for it if you did, and pretty much an essential for the carp fishers), not sure what sort of rent you could expect.
Private coarse syndicate water
Some people are willing to pay a lot more money for the combination of exclusivity, peace and quiet, good fishing and nice surroundings. You are likely to get nice people - membership is likely to be by invitation or after vetting. You keep the numbers low. You could probably rent to a syndicate and let them sort out running it themselves.
Example:
http://www.anglersnet.co.uk/fisheries/wingcoar.htm
Pros - should be decent sorts, should be nice and quiet, may be more profitable than renting to a more open club.
Cons - needs to be somewhere a bit special. Needs some good fish. 12lb carp are not going to cut it. Night fishing essential.
Put-and-take trout lake - Regularly stocked with farmed trout. Usually fly fishing only. Anglers will wander round looking for fish and carrying a rod, bag and net with them, rather than setting up all their gear in one spot and staying put. People pay to fish, with a limited number of fish. When they catch their limit, they buy another ticket or go home. Prices vary regionally, around here you're looking at about £20-30 per day for a three fish ticket. Some waters allow some catch and release. Sometimes run on a syndicate basis, but day tickets more common. Usually fish are rainbow trout stocked at around 2-3lb. Some waters specialise in much larger trout, sometimes 10-20lb fish, sometimes brown trout, and charge much higher ticket rates.
Example:
http://www.churnpool.co.uk/
http://www.lechladetrout.co.uk/
Pros - you tend to get a slightly more genteel kind of customer. They will be quiet. You will not be expected to allow night fishing. You will have a source of trout for your own table.
Cons - trout don't naturally live in small lowland lakes - you will be forever worrying about water temperatures and water quality, indeed the lake may turn out to be completely unsuitable. You will need to worry about people stealing your fish to eat. You will need to police the ticketing and observance of the rules yourself, or pay someone to do it. Punters will expect the banks to be kept to a standard more akin to a park than a natural environment.
Day ticket "commercial" carp fishery - This is coarse fishing, but boiled down to the lowest common denominator. You stock heavily with small carp, and anything else you can get environment agency permission to stock - exotics like orfe, goldfish and sturgeon are not unusual. You put enough fish in that the fishing is very easy - if you stock it heavily enough, there won't be enough natural food without people chucking in loose bait, so the fish have to risk taking angler's baits. These places are popular competition venues (indeed that's what they started out for) because for all their faults they tend to be very equal, removing much of the luck of the draw inherent in fishing competitions on more natural venues. All fish must be returned to the water, but because you will be maintaining unnaturally high stocking levels, you will not be able to rely on natural breeding to keep stocks up, and will periodically have to add more fish.
Example:
http://www.manorfarmfishing.com/ticket-prices.html
Pros - very, very popular. Commercially viable. Night fishing not necessarily expected.
Cons - the water will turn muddy brown and most of the water plants are likely to die off. It will need constant management. You create a massive magnet for fish predators. Some of these places have to install aeration in the summer. I can't think of a delicate way of putting it - amongst all the decent people, this sort of place will also attract the sort of people who, unless adequately controlled, will be noisy and antisocial, won't look after your fish properly, will leave litter, get pissed and stoned and be generally obnoxious. You will have to attend it to collect monies and police behaviour, or pay someone to do so. Ethically dubious, in my opinion.
Traditional day ticket coarse fishery
You basically leave it much to itself, wander down when you can be bothered to check tickets or require people to call at the house and pay before fishing. You tidy the banks up a bit, clear swims, perhaps make platforms, but keep it pretty natural looking and don't invest massively. You can't charge premium prices, perhaps a fiver a day, and probably won't make much profit on it.
Pros - it will be a nicer place to be around, will require minimal management, you won't get the yob element, you'll get more wildlife, you'll have minimal time and money invested, nobody will think it unreasonable if you ask people to be off an hour after dark to an hour before dawn.
Cons - it's not likely to make much money, being day ticket you may still get some slobs leaving litter.
Traditional club coarse fishery
As above, except that you rent it to a fishing club. They take on responsibility for upkeep of the banks, enforcement of the rules, chucking off poachers, banning litter louts, stocking any fish they require. I've no idea what the going rate for rent is. Probably more if you had bigger carp than you have.
Pros - revenue stream with no collection costs. No need to collect monies or enforce rules yourself, nor to look after the place yourself. Littering much less of a problem with a good club. Yobs less likely to join clubs. Probably the least hassle option.
Cons - you will delegate some control, you might want to allow night fishing (I expect you'd get more for it if you did, and pretty much an essential for the carp fishers), not sure what sort of rent you could expect.
Private coarse syndicate water
Some people are willing to pay a lot more money for the combination of exclusivity, peace and quiet, good fishing and nice surroundings. You are likely to get nice people - membership is likely to be by invitation or after vetting. You keep the numbers low. You could probably rent to a syndicate and let them sort out running it themselves.
Example:
http://www.anglersnet.co.uk/fisheries/wingcoar.htm
Pros - should be decent sorts, should be nice and quiet, may be more profitable than renting to a more open club.
Cons - needs to be somewhere a bit special. Needs some good fish. 12lb carp are not going to cut it. Night fishing essential.
otolith said:
Some seriously useful stuff...
Wow, just what I was after and a lot of food for thought.You raised one of my concerns as to what types of people are into fishing. I want to avoid the 'loutish' behaviour due to having a youngish family and also there are a couple of nearbyish neighbours who I obviously don't want to p
s off when we have just moved in.Not looking to earn enough to retire on but want to make enough to cover any costs incurred to keep it looking nice and being a pleasant place for the family to use too.
Thanks...
KevF said:
Wow, just what I was after and a lot of food for thought.
You raised one of my concerns as to what types of people are into fishing. I want to avoid the 'loutish' behaviour due to having a youngish family and also there are a couple of nearbyish neighbours who I obviously don't want to ps off when we have just moved in.
Not looking to earn enough to retire on but want to make enough to cover any costs incurred to keep it looking nice and being a pleasant place for the family to use too.
Thanks...
Kev - can't add much that's not already been said, but can I grab first dibs on a peg if you buy it You raised one of my concerns as to what types of people are into fishing. I want to avoid the 'loutish' behaviour due to having a youngish family and also there are a couple of nearbyish neighbours who I obviously don't want to p
s off when we have just moved in.Not looking to earn enough to retire on but want to make enough to cover any costs incurred to keep it looking nice and being a pleasant place for the family to use too.
Thanks...
All the best mate (and v/jealous as having my own lake would fulfil a lifetime ambition for me!)
Hi Kev
You will need Planning Permission if you want to open it to the public.
Increase in traffic etc.
Check the access to and from the site, visibilty splays and so forth.
Can the surrounding roads cope with additional traffic??? These are all material concerns in determing approval or not.
I don't know much about fishing can't stand the smell or taste of fish LOL but you may also want to speak to DEFRA as I'm pretty sure you will need some sort of license!!!
If the owner has the intiials T. P. then walk away!!!!!
Email me and I'll give you the name of the lake etc and my reasons!
brian.herbison@ntlworld.com
You will need Planning Permission if you want to open it to the public.
Increase in traffic etc.
Check the access to and from the site, visibilty splays and so forth.
Can the surrounding roads cope with additional traffic??? These are all material concerns in determing approval or not.
I don't know much about fishing can't stand the smell or taste of fish LOL but you may also want to speak to DEFRA as I'm pretty sure you will need some sort of license!!!
If the owner has the intiials T. P. then walk away!!!!!
Email me and I'll give you the name of the lake etc and my reasons!
brian.herbison@ntlworld.com
You don't need a licence, as far as I know, to run a fishery. Anyone who fishes in it must have a rod licence from the Environment Agency (even the owner), and if you want to introduce any fish you need a section 30 consent from them. Should just be a form-filling exercise if you aren't doing anything weird.
Kev,
I've met a couple of people who have owned reasonably well known fishing lakes and both said it is a labour of love, and not a good business.
UNless you love it the effort vs reward renders it pointless, or very scant income for the work put in.
The best way to earn from it without any effort is to rent the fishing rights out to a fishing club. They will sort the upkeep out, pay you a modest amount PA (it won't be a lot) and use it themselves without you doing anything.
I don't know the figures but I would imagine the amounts involved would be small enough that you would prefer to keep it for yourself, unless you need the money
I've met a couple of people who have owned reasonably well known fishing lakes and both said it is a labour of love, and not a good business.
UNless you love it the effort vs reward renders it pointless, or very scant income for the work put in.
The best way to earn from it without any effort is to rent the fishing rights out to a fishing club. They will sort the upkeep out, pay you a modest amount PA (it won't be a lot) and use it themselves without you doing anything.
I don't know the figures but I would imagine the amounts involved would be small enough that you would prefer to keep it for yourself, unless you need the money
To be honest, the only reason for buying the lake is the access to it. It is a long strip of land which runs across the back of the garden of the property we are looking at buying. I would rather own it and know who was coming and going.
Certainly do not need the money so any income would only be spent on tending the area. The owner will not sell just the access strip even though I have noted a perfect alternative access further down the road.
Just didn't want to be left with 6 acres of land that I have no use for......
A lot of food for thought and thanks to those that have replied...
Kev
Worm dunkin !!!
KevF said:
To be honest, the only reason for buying the lake is the access to it. It is a long strip of land which runs across the back of the garden of the property we are looking at buying. I would rather own it and know who was coming and going.
Certainly do not need the money so any income would only be spent on tending the area. The owner will not sell just the access strip even though I have noted a perfect alternative access further down the road.
Just didn't want to be left with 6 acres of land that I have no use for......
In that case, I reckon renting it to a well run club would be the way to go. Have a look at their own waters and see which are nicely looked after.Certainly do not need the money so any income would only be spent on tending the area. The owner will not sell just the access strip even though I have noted a perfect alternative access further down the road.
Just didn't want to be left with 6 acres of land that I have no use for......
Thought about similar a few years ago - fishing and holiday cabins on the land we owned.
Planners did not want to know because of the increase in traffic. So, on the one hand they wanted to encourage business in the countryside but then wouldn't allow planning for people to get there in their cars.
Having thought about it it wasn't worth doing. Fishermen start at about 5am so getting up and cooking their brekkie was not appealing nor was collecting the day ticket money.
We had a problem with knobs poaching too and leaving lots of litter / booze cans even though it was actually private land.
One guy even parked up in out front garden with his girlfriend and started fishing! When we asked him to politely move on he got really agressive about 'anyone' could fish in the river as they were part of the countryside
Planners did not want to know because of the increase in traffic. So, on the one hand they wanted to encourage business in the countryside but then wouldn't allow planning for people to get there in their cars.
Having thought about it it wasn't worth doing. Fishermen start at about 5am so getting up and cooking their brekkie was not appealing nor was collecting the day ticket money.
We had a problem with knobs poaching too and leaving lots of litter / booze cans even though it was actually private land.
One guy even parked up in out front garden with his girlfriend and started fishing! When we asked him to politely move on he got really agressive about 'anyone' could fish in the river as they were part of the countryside
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