Soundproofing your home, I need independent advice please?
Discussion
I have had a problem with a noisey neighbour for some time but as their child gets further into her teenage years it is getting worse, so its time to do something. I have looked into various soundproofing solutions and I have decided on one of 2 options, either putting another skin of acoustic board directly onto the party wall and filling the floor cavity next to the wall with 100mm acoustic rock wool which is a simple option but may not help impact or going all out and building a new metal frame stud wall 25mm inside the other packed with 50mm acoustic rock wool, resiliant bars to hold the new surface away from the old and 2 layers of acoustic plaster board, one 19mm and one 12.5mm as well as 100mm rock wool in the floor against the wall.
I have spoken to a few suppliers but all are keen to push their own solutions so what I am after is some unbiased advice.
To give an overview of the problem, the main sound problems I am trying to eliminate are TV, music, loud talking and impact sound from doors and cupboards being slammed and the noise on the stairs. The house itself is a 70's build in block construction without a cavity in the divide as far as I can tell, which in itself explains the problem.
I am on the brink of spending a big
of money so I would like a little final advice.
Below is a link to the site I will be buying from. It will either be solution 1 or 3??
Thanks in advance,
Ian
I have spoken to a few suppliers but all are keen to push their own solutions so what I am after is some unbiased advice.
To give an overview of the problem, the main sound problems I am trying to eliminate are TV, music, loud talking and impact sound from doors and cupboards being slammed and the noise on the stairs. The house itself is a 70's build in block construction without a cavity in the divide as far as I can tell, which in itself explains the problem.
I am on the brink of spending a big
of money so I would like a little final advice.Below is a link to the site I will be buying from. It will either be solution 1 or 3??
Thanks in advance,
Ian
mat777 said:
You could politely tell the neighbour that unless their little brat doesn't learn some consideration you'll be filing a noise complaint with the council? Why should you have to spend money on a problem that isnt your fault?
I know where you are coming from and i have spoken to them but the house itself is as much to blame. i have spent thousands on renovatipns so another 2-3k is worth it to fix it and chwaper than moving!I have a similar problem as the first floor walls in our 1867 terrace are single leaf brick. I plan to build a acoustic wall 50mm acoustic rock wool (soundsorb) and skin and then full width built in wardrobe in front. Impact noise isn't an issue for me though. For impact noise you need to use gaskets on the joints or med density silicone.
psychoR1 said:
I have a similar problem as the first floor walls in our 1867 terrace are single leaf brick. I plan to build a acoustic wall 50mm acoustic rock wool (soundsorb) and skin and then full width built in wardrobe in front. Impact noise isn't an issue for me though. For impact noise you need to use gaskets on the joints or med density silicone.
Having done a lot of research it seems its a common problem, the main thing is choosing the best solution as there are so many out there. From wjat i can gather an imdependant wall is the mpst affective solution for airborn and impact noise. good luck with your solutiom mate, think i will just have to bite the bullet and go for it, just dont want to make the wrong decission!We had a similar problem with an 1870 semi-detached we owned. Next door neighbour preferred the acoustics of his landing for his Folk Warbling. The guitar, stamping (drums) and singing came straight through the lath and plaster - single brick - lath and plaster. Which was fine except he couldn't sing, we had a newborn and he chose the most inconvenient times to do this.
The guy that demonstrated his product came with a box made of acoustic board, lined with rockwool. He put an ipod with speakers in it, quite loud, and put the lid on. We couldn't hear the music, so it seemed a resonable approach.
We had someone in to give us a steer and ended up with an isolated stud frame filled with 80mm of acoustic rockwool, plus two layers of acoustic board, edged with proper seals, then two layers of sticky backed 'lead' rolls. This was done in two rooms upstairs. We couldn't get into the floors in those locations, but from renovations elsewhere we found about 1ft depth of slag-ash which would do a good job.
In the loft we found that the roof void was open between the two properties (not exactly safe considering house fires and insurance). In this location I ended up doing the job myself. We put chicken wire on his side of the joists, packed the gaps with acoustic rockwool, then covered the rockwool with very heavy 'lead' rolls from roof to above hte lath and plaster ceilings of the rooms below.
Outcome: we could still hear the music to the point that my wife was in tears and we ended up with counter-attack of putting the radio on the landing at full volume on a random station. Occasionaly leaving it on during the day while we were out (his wife didn't work and was at home all day so couldn't have missed the hint). We started the process of keeping a log, but soon realised that anything official would cause problems once we came to sell. So we changed tack, found a house elsewhere that we liked, and moved.
We thought we'd found a solution that meant we could stay, but it ended up running our lives and costing us way more than the soundproofing. But we're in a much better place now.
Dr Rick
The guy that demonstrated his product came with a box made of acoustic board, lined with rockwool. He put an ipod with speakers in it, quite loud, and put the lid on. We couldn't hear the music, so it seemed a resonable approach.
We had someone in to give us a steer and ended up with an isolated stud frame filled with 80mm of acoustic rockwool, plus two layers of acoustic board, edged with proper seals, then two layers of sticky backed 'lead' rolls. This was done in two rooms upstairs. We couldn't get into the floors in those locations, but from renovations elsewhere we found about 1ft depth of slag-ash which would do a good job.
In the loft we found that the roof void was open between the two properties (not exactly safe considering house fires and insurance). In this location I ended up doing the job myself. We put chicken wire on his side of the joists, packed the gaps with acoustic rockwool, then covered the rockwool with very heavy 'lead' rolls from roof to above hte lath and plaster ceilings of the rooms below.
Outcome: we could still hear the music to the point that my wife was in tears and we ended up with counter-attack of putting the radio on the landing at full volume on a random station. Occasionaly leaving it on during the day while we were out (his wife didn't work and was at home all day so couldn't have missed the hint). We started the process of keeping a log, but soon realised that anything official would cause problems once we came to sell. So we changed tack, found a house elsewhere that we liked, and moved.
We thought we'd found a solution that meant we could stay, but it ended up running our lives and costing us way more than the soundproofing. But we're in a much better place now.
Dr Rick
I think the main failing of these retro-fit solutions (in hindsight) is that you can never seal all the transmission routes. Sound is just shock waves between the houses, so you'd need to stop the route that these waves take over the whole party wall. That includes joists, tie-bars, masonry, plaster etc etc. And depending on the age of the property, that can be a REALLY big deal. You effectively need to stop the whole side of the house acting like a drum skin.
Oh yes, and don't forget that chimneys can act as huge fog horns; funelling the sound from one part of hte hosue to the other. We found we could hear those in the ajoining room through the fireplace, clear as a bell. That resulted in us never using the room for fear of making too much noise from our side as much as too much from their side.
I think these houses were either made on the cheap, or from a quieter time of life. Or even that back then everyone worked / socialised at the same times so there was never any problem.
We may have taken the expensive route out, but it's a really complex task to completely isolate the sound. If I were in your shoes, I'd be inviting them round to experience the noise first hand to see if they can apply the leverage 'in house' once they realise how bad it is for you.
Dr Rick
Oh yes, and don't forget that chimneys can act as huge fog horns; funelling the sound from one part of hte hosue to the other. We found we could hear those in the ajoining room through the fireplace, clear as a bell. That resulted in us never using the room for fear of making too much noise from our side as much as too much from their side.
I think these houses were either made on the cheap, or from a quieter time of life. Or even that back then everyone worked / socialised at the same times so there was never any problem.
We may have taken the expensive route out, but it's a really complex task to completely isolate the sound. If I were in your shoes, I'd be inviting them round to experience the noise first hand to see if they can apply the leverage 'in house' once they realise how bad it is for you.
Dr Rick
I had sound insulating board put on my party wall a few weeks ago when I had the chimney breast took out, my neighbour has an annoying habit of singing to abba quite loudly on a weekend night after he's had a few.
Whilst it hasn't completely blocked out the sound I no longer have to turn my TV up in order to hear it (I used to turn it up from 10 to 20 to give you an idea)
It has done nothing for the upstairs of the house but the small decibel reduction in my lounge is a godsend, I no longer hear him cough as if he was sitting next to me.
Whilst it hasn't completely blocked out the sound I no longer have to turn my TV up in order to hear it (I used to turn it up from 10 to 20 to give you an idea)
It has done nothing for the upstairs of the house but the small decibel reduction in my lounge is a godsend, I no longer hear him cough as if he was sitting next to me.
This all sounds very familiar to the situation in my previous property. It was a 1960’s built bungalow, not my first choice of style of property, but it was cheap and I saw a money making opportunity.
From the first day it was clear that sound levels from next door were (to me) unacceptable. I could hear what was on the tv, the radio alarm in the mornings, coughing. This situation really frustrated me. Initially I put it down to the old lady next door having poor hearing and having the tv on very loud, but I think it was more down to the construction of the property. From what I could tell the party wall was single skin brick and as it was a bungalow there was less mass bearing down from a second storey above. I think some roof timbers passed through onto the adjoining property also.
I did a lot of reading and research into possible solutions and came up with very similar options to the OP here. The cost of the necessary works was high, but as it had got to the point where I didn’t look forward to coming home from work in the evenings, something had to be done.
Just as it was getting to the completely unbearable stage and was nearly ready to fork out on soundproofing works, the old lady next door moved out and into a home for the elderly. All was peaceful and quiet and I enjoyed living in my own home again, for a while.
The new owners were DIY enthusiasts and the first thing they did was start work on a loft conversion, hammering and drilling at all hours. This was just too much for me and I put the place on the market, promptly sold it and now live in a detached house. I really had to stretch for this, but felt it was the only real solution.
I know that this is not really answering the original question, or indeed not what the OP wants to hear, but it highlights the inadequacy of some forms of house construction for modern living.
From the first day it was clear that sound levels from next door were (to me) unacceptable. I could hear what was on the tv, the radio alarm in the mornings, coughing. This situation really frustrated me. Initially I put it down to the old lady next door having poor hearing and having the tv on very loud, but I think it was more down to the construction of the property. From what I could tell the party wall was single skin brick and as it was a bungalow there was less mass bearing down from a second storey above. I think some roof timbers passed through onto the adjoining property also.
I did a lot of reading and research into possible solutions and came up with very similar options to the OP here. The cost of the necessary works was high, but as it had got to the point where I didn’t look forward to coming home from work in the evenings, something had to be done.
Just as it was getting to the completely unbearable stage and was nearly ready to fork out on soundproofing works, the old lady next door moved out and into a home for the elderly. All was peaceful and quiet and I enjoyed living in my own home again, for a while.
The new owners were DIY enthusiasts and the first thing they did was start work on a loft conversion, hammering and drilling at all hours. This was just too much for me and I put the place on the market, promptly sold it and now live in a detached house. I really had to stretch for this, but felt it was the only real solution.
I know that this is not really answering the original question, or indeed not what the OP wants to hear, but it highlights the inadequacy of some forms of house construction for modern living.
My only advice would be to do it properly or not at all.
I built an amateur music studio in my spare room in a previous house, I put in floating walls and floors and ceiling using reslilient channel to effectively "uncouple" it from the main structure of the house. It worked very well (though I still had to play during sociable hours) but it was a lot of work and if I hadn't done it myself and a band mate who works in the building trade then it would have cost a fortune.
There are lots of products on the market such as acoustic foams and boards etc, but they are rarely very effective unless used as part of a full install and often simply improve the acoustics in your house rather than providing a particularly good barrier. Having a brilliantly insulated wall is pointless if sound can simply travel through the floor joists or the roofspace.
A good place to look for advice is home studio and music websites/forums. Many of the best ones were American ones, full of some extremely knowlegable people who have soundproofed their homes and studios (i'm a bit out of touch as to exactly which sites i'm afraid, as music has taken a back seat to nappies recently)!
I built an amateur music studio in my spare room in a previous house, I put in floating walls and floors and ceiling using reslilient channel to effectively "uncouple" it from the main structure of the house. It worked very well (though I still had to play during sociable hours) but it was a lot of work and if I hadn't done it myself and a band mate who works in the building trade then it would have cost a fortune.
There are lots of products on the market such as acoustic foams and boards etc, but they are rarely very effective unless used as part of a full install and often simply improve the acoustics in your house rather than providing a particularly good barrier. Having a brilliantly insulated wall is pointless if sound can simply travel through the floor joists or the roofspace.
A good place to look for advice is home studio and music websites/forums. Many of the best ones were American ones, full of some extremely knowlegable people who have soundproofed their homes and studios (i'm a bit out of touch as to exactly which sites i'm afraid, as music has taken a back seat to nappies recently)!
Inkyfingers said:
My only advice would be to do it properly or not at all.
I built an amateur music studio in my spare room in a previous house, I put in floating walls and floors and ceiling using reslilient channel to effectively "uncouple" it from the main structure of the house. It worked very well (though I still had to play during sociable hours) but it was a lot of work and if I hadn't done it myself and a band mate who works in the building trade then it would have cost a fortune.
There are lots of products on the market such as acoustic foams and boards etc, but they are rarely very effective unless used as part of a full install and often simply improve the acoustics in your house rather than providing a particularly good barrier. Having a brilliantly insulated wall is pointless if sound can simply travel through the floor joists or the roofspace.
A good place to look for advice is home studio and music websites/forums. Many of the best ones were American ones, full of some extremely knowlegable people who have soundproofed their homes and studios (i'm a bit out of touch as to exactly which sites i'm afraid, as music has taken a back seat to nappies recently)!
Thanks for all the advice so far, i have looked at detached property a few times but its a big cost when this may work. i understand there is no real fix for this but a reasonable improvement is what i am after. once the kid moves on i should be far better but before this happens something needs to be done. i think you are right about doing it right the first time thats why i have the independant wall in mind and packing the floor at the party wall. i even have it on mind to do the flanking walls if i need to. i thinl my biggest problem will be the fact we share joists but not sure how much of a problem this will be as the worst of it is certainly through the party wall. i have in mind to do all rooms that join, not just one and if need be the attic space too but i dont habe that as part of the plan. only one room will not have an independant wall as the space isnt there for it but i will cover the wall up to 80mm deep.I built an amateur music studio in my spare room in a previous house, I put in floating walls and floors and ceiling using reslilient channel to effectively "uncouple" it from the main structure of the house. It worked very well (though I still had to play during sociable hours) but it was a lot of work and if I hadn't done it myself and a band mate who works in the building trade then it would have cost a fortune.
There are lots of products on the market such as acoustic foams and boards etc, but they are rarely very effective unless used as part of a full install and often simply improve the acoustics in your house rather than providing a particularly good barrier. Having a brilliantly insulated wall is pointless if sound can simply travel through the floor joists or the roofspace.
A good place to look for advice is home studio and music websites/forums. Many of the best ones were American ones, full of some extremely knowlegable people who have soundproofed their homes and studios (i'm a bit out of touch as to exactly which sites i'm afraid, as music has taken a back seat to nappies recently)!
Do resiliance bars actually work then?? does anyone have a success story? Am i on the right track with my plan? I hate throwing money away but it must be worth a shot????
This might not be that helpful, but in an episode of DIY SOS they had to sound proof a kids disco area downstairs from the upstairs bedroom. They had a company come in and the guy demonstrated the effectiveness of it by covering a radio playing loud music and the sound was eliminated.. Sorry but I can't remember the companys name but maybe a drop a line to the program.
Evil.soup said:
Do resiliance bars actually work then?
Yes they do, very well if installed correctly.Use quality products like http://www.isover.com/ and double-up (15mm) soundboard.
Spudler said:
Yes they do, very well if installed correctly.
Use quality products like http://www.isover.com/ and double-up (15mm) soundboard.
Cheers fella, doing things right is what i have in mind so i am feeling quite optamistic, thanks again all for all the info amd thanks for the links!Use quality products like http://www.isover.com/ and double-up (15mm) soundboard.
Evil
Look at this place also - they do acoustic blankets that we use for silencing HVAC equipment. They can do a foul faced insulated lead backed blanket which is pretty effective at silencing low frequency (deep basey) noise!
http://www.tapacoustic.com/contact.html
Look at this place also - they do acoustic blankets that we use for silencing HVAC equipment. They can do a foul faced insulated lead backed blanket which is pretty effective at silencing low frequency (deep basey) noise!
http://www.tapacoustic.com/contact.html
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