Advice please, regarding expired tenancy agreement.
Discussion
I'm in a bit of a sticky situation.
My Assured Shorthold Tenancy Agreement (AST) ended on 30th April. It was not renewed nor was I notified that it was a rolling contract. My girlfriend and I are moving into a place on the 7th July. When I today notified the property manager of my current place that I will be vacating on the 7th, they told me they required one months notice (which would require me to pay a full months rent on the 1st July). I basically said that is unnacceptable and that I will propose a compromise within my official notification. I have offered a compromise of 2 weeks rent plus £75. The contract/agreement which expired on the 30th april did not explain that it would rollover each month and that all terms would continue to apply. Fair enough, I hear you say, just pay the rent and move on (which i dont agree with at all). But...
The reason we are moving out is that the landlord was in breach of the agreement on many occasions, including a month long period without hot water (which was fixed only after i threatened to withhold part rent), and allowing a tenant to move in without a background check, which led to someone smashing up the house and screaming their heads off trying to get them. After this incident the street door window was not repaired for one week. Anybody could have entered the property. There is still blood on the door. The whole reason we're moving is because my girlfriend was terrified and we no longer felt safe or happy here. The landlord is obliged to provide a place for us to live undisturbed, and to repair and maintain the electrical/gas systems. He failed to do this. On these grounds my compromise seems generous.
Does anyone here have any experience with lettings/agreements, and do I have a foot to stand on? I will be moving out as scheduled regardless, I would just like to do it without laying out that much money, which could be used for furniture etc.
Thanks in advance and really appreciate any help offered.
My Assured Shorthold Tenancy Agreement (AST) ended on 30th April. It was not renewed nor was I notified that it was a rolling contract. My girlfriend and I are moving into a place on the 7th July. When I today notified the property manager of my current place that I will be vacating on the 7th, they told me they required one months notice (which would require me to pay a full months rent on the 1st July). I basically said that is unnacceptable and that I will propose a compromise within my official notification. I have offered a compromise of 2 weeks rent plus £75. The contract/agreement which expired on the 30th april did not explain that it would rollover each month and that all terms would continue to apply. Fair enough, I hear you say, just pay the rent and move on (which i dont agree with at all). But...
The reason we are moving out is that the landlord was in breach of the agreement on many occasions, including a month long period without hot water (which was fixed only after i threatened to withhold part rent), and allowing a tenant to move in without a background check, which led to someone smashing up the house and screaming their heads off trying to get them. After this incident the street door window was not repaired for one week. Anybody could have entered the property. There is still blood on the door. The whole reason we're moving is because my girlfriend was terrified and we no longer felt safe or happy here. The landlord is obliged to provide a place for us to live undisturbed, and to repair and maintain the electrical/gas systems. He failed to do this. On these grounds my compromise seems generous.
Does anyone here have any experience with lettings/agreements, and do I have a foot to stand on? I will be moving out as scheduled regardless, I would just like to do it without laying out that much money, which could be used for furniture etc.
Thanks in advance and really appreciate any help offered.
Edited by danjama on Monday 25th June 22:24
I am no expert but perhaps you could argue the landlord is in breach of the tenancy agreement, read it through carefully.
Also have a look at the Landlord and Tenant Act
Perhaps speak to citizens advice, it's free. And should give you a better answer than PH, as per my answer!
Good luck getting it sorted anyhow
Also have a look at the Landlord and Tenant Act
Perhaps speak to citizens advice, it's free. And should give you a better answer than PH, as per my answer!
Good luck getting it sorted anyhow
T16OLE said:
I am no expert but perhaps you could argue the landlord is in breach of the tenancy agreement, read it through carefully.
Also have a look at the Landlord and Tenant Act
Perhaps speak to citizens advice, it's free. And should give you a better answer than PH, as per my answer!
Good luck getting it sorted anyhow
Thanks. I have read it very carefully tonight, and I'm certain he was in breach on more than a few occasions, but i'm concerned about the validity of any such claims, due to no official complaints at the time (at least not for all of them) and no specific dates and times etc.Also have a look at the Landlord and Tenant Act
Perhaps speak to citizens advice, it's free. And should give you a better answer than PH, as per my answer!
Good luck getting it sorted anyhow
It definitely says nothing about 'once the agreement has expired' (it was a six month agreement).
I will definitely get down to Citizens advice, depending on their reply to my compromise. Problem is CAB is only open 10am-2pm here where I live, which would mean I can't get there until next Monday.
Thanks again. I thought I would ask here anyway, on the chance that some here may be in the relevant field.
Hello,
In a previous life i used to be a estate agent and write up Tenancy Agreements. The agent is correct that after the term expires the contract moves onto a rolling basis. I've only read your thread quickly but also its important to know that once on a 'rolling' contract you can only give your months notice on your rent due date. So not only are you tied in, but it may be for more than a month, i.e. if you're unlucky and miss your rent due date by one day you have to wait 1 month and 30 days before the contract is up. Some agents are not great and dont understand the way this works, so you may just get away with putting in a months notice from whenever, although if the LL knows his/her stuff then they will challenge this.
With regard to your LL they do sound horrendous, although most are great these days its the old school/room to rent type who are generally the worst. Again although they may have been in breech its unlikely to help your current situation.
If the agent is helpful and the market where you are strong, one way to get you sorted may be to agree with the agent that you leave as soon as a new tenant can be found - you may have to pay something towards the agents finding fee (as its happening earlier than the LL would expect and so costing him more money) but it may still work out better than a month or more's rent extra.
Hope that helps
Phil
In a previous life i used to be a estate agent and write up Tenancy Agreements. The agent is correct that after the term expires the contract moves onto a rolling basis. I've only read your thread quickly but also its important to know that once on a 'rolling' contract you can only give your months notice on your rent due date. So not only are you tied in, but it may be for more than a month, i.e. if you're unlucky and miss your rent due date by one day you have to wait 1 month and 30 days before the contract is up. Some agents are not great and dont understand the way this works, so you may just get away with putting in a months notice from whenever, although if the LL knows his/her stuff then they will challenge this.
With regard to your LL they do sound horrendous, although most are great these days its the old school/room to rent type who are generally the worst. Again although they may have been in breech its unlikely to help your current situation.
If the agent is helpful and the market where you are strong, one way to get you sorted may be to agree with the agent that you leave as soon as a new tenant can be found - you may have to pay something towards the agents finding fee (as its happening earlier than the LL would expect and so costing him more money) but it may still work out better than a month or more's rent extra.
Hope that helps
Phil
hardcastlephil said:
Hello,
In a previous life i used to be a estate agent and write up Tenancy Agreements. The agent is correct that after the term expires the contract moves onto a rolling basis. I've only read your thread quickly but also its important to know that once on a 'rolling' contract you can only give your months notice on your rent due date. So not only are you tied in, but it may be for more than a month, i.e. if you're unlucky and miss your rent due date by one day you have to wait 1 month and 30 days before the contract is up. Some agents are not great and dont understand the way this works, so you may just get away with putting in a months notice from whenever, although if the LL knows his/her stuff then they will challenge this.
With regard to your LL they do sound horrendous, although most are great these days its the old school/room to rent type who are generally the worst. Again although they may have been in breech its unlikely to help your current situation.
If the agent is helpful and the market where you are strong, one way to get you sorted may be to agree with the agent that you leave as soon as a new tenant can be found - you may have to pay something towards the agents finding fee (as its happening earlier than the LL would expect and so costing him more money) but it may still work out better than a month or more's rent extra.
Hope that helps
Phil
^^^^^the above is correct, for once the fixed term of an Assured Shorthold Tenancy Agreement ends, the the tenancy becomes a Periodic Tenancy, the length of the same being according to how frequent the rent is paid. So if paid monthly on the 15th day of the month, then a tenant is required to serve on the LL/Agent a One Month Notice from the 15th day, ending on the proceeding 14th day. Follow the above considerate advice, working with LL/Agent, and perhaps a tenant might be found to shortain the required Notice period.In a previous life i used to be a estate agent and write up Tenancy Agreements. The agent is correct that after the term expires the contract moves onto a rolling basis. I've only read your thread quickly but also its important to know that once on a 'rolling' contract you can only give your months notice on your rent due date. So not only are you tied in, but it may be for more than a month, i.e. if you're unlucky and miss your rent due date by one day you have to wait 1 month and 30 days before the contract is up. Some agents are not great and dont understand the way this works, so you may just get away with putting in a months notice from whenever, although if the LL knows his/her stuff then they will challenge this.
With regard to your LL they do sound horrendous, although most are great these days its the old school/room to rent type who are generally the worst. Again although they may have been in breech its unlikely to help your current situation.
If the agent is helpful and the market where you are strong, one way to get you sorted may be to agree with the agent that you leave as soon as a new tenant can be found - you may have to pay something towards the agents finding fee (as its happening earlier than the LL would expect and so costing him more money) but it may still work out better than a month or more's rent extra.
Hope that helps
Phil
Excellent and informative posts, exactly what I was hoping for (though not exactly what I wanted to hear). So then I will wait and hope they will compromise with me (which i think is possible due to many factors) and if they won't compromise, I will do as advised and offer to vacate on the 30th July or when a new tenant is found, whichever is sooner. Suppose the return of the deposit will sort of lick that wound 
p.s. does anyone ever know a month in advance that they are going to be moving?
I also can't believe the contract is valid despite its expiry. What on earth is the point of the fixed term then?
Anyway, this is all rhetoric. Thanks to you both kindly for your professional and polite advice. If you're ever in Romford i'll owe you a pint.
p.s. does anyone ever know a month in advance that they are going to be moving?
I also can't believe the contract is valid despite its expiry. What on earth is the point of the fixed term then?
Anyway, this is all rhetoric. Thanks to you both kindly for your professional and polite advice. If you're ever in Romford i'll owe you a pint.
Wings said:
Zod said:
Your agreement will almost certainly provide that after six months you move onto a tenancy terminable by either party on one months's notice.
That is not correct, for a landlord is still required under the Housing Act to serve a Notice of 2 months.Wings said:
Zod said:
Your agreement will almost certainly provide that after six months you move onto a tenancy terminable by either party on one months's notice.
That is not correct, for a landlord is still required under the Housing Act to serve a Notice of 2 months.2 months landlord, 1 month tenant, assuming you pay monthly.
Put simply, you owe a months rent and you need to give notice now to expiry on the 31st of July - assuming your rent/contract date is the 1st.
More importantly, you need to get an acceptance of the notice (as opposed to an acknowledgement).
Assuming the property is in England or Wales.
More importantly, you need to get an acceptance of the notice (as opposed to an acknowledgement).
Assuming the property is in England or Wales.
Edited by mk1fan on Wednesday 27th June 09:17
B17NNS said:
Zod said:
Your agreement will almost certainly provide that after six months you move onto a tenancy terminable by either party on one months's notice.
This.danjama said:
I also can't believe the contract is valid despite its expiry. What on earth is the point of the fixed term then?
AFAIK, if you left on the exact expiry date that would be end of the contract, whereas staying ties you automatically into a 1 month notice period, which can be given on rent day.A tenant is perfectly entitled to leave a rented property on or before the expiry date and time within the tenancy agreement. They don't need to give notice to do this - although it is polite and can be helpful. So the dates / contracts aren't worthless.
SPTs are useful because it means that no paperwork need be done, the parties just continue as they were. This, of course, impacts on Letting Agents revenue streams but, in reality, who cares they're a service provider and the service isn't necessary.
SPTs are useful because it means that no paperwork need be done, the parties just continue as they were. This, of course, impacts on Letting Agents revenue streams but, in reality, who cares they're a service provider and the service isn't necessary.
mk1fan said:
A tenant is perfectly entitled to leave a rented property on or before the expiry date and time within the tenancy agreement. They don't need to give notice to do this - although it is polite and can be helpful. So the dates / contracts aren't worthless.
Really?you find me an agreement which sates this.
FlashmanChop said:
Really?
you find me an agreement which sates this.
An agreement doesn't need to. Once a contract is forefilled then it comes to an end. There is no legal requirement or indeed enforceable contract term for a Tenant to provide Notice to the Landlord that they are vacating the property on or before expiry of the term.you find me an agreement which sates this.
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