Kitchen advice please - hardwood doors, mdf carcass
Discussion
Hello
Does anyone have any experience of using mdf/chipboard kitchen cupboard carcasses and then having hardwood outer doors made for a kitchen please?
I live in London and wish to have a traditional shaker style kitchen. I am looking for ways to bring the cost of fitting a kitchen down but want for it to have an expensive look! Can anyone suggest any kitchen door companies that would fit hardwood doors to an mdf carcass please?
Thanks for your help
Sparky
Does anyone have any experience of using mdf/chipboard kitchen cupboard carcasses and then having hardwood outer doors made for a kitchen please?
I live in London and wish to have a traditional shaker style kitchen. I am looking for ways to bring the cost of fitting a kitchen down but want for it to have an expensive look! Can anyone suggest any kitchen door companies that would fit hardwood doors to an mdf carcass please?
Thanks for your help
Sparky
Well, eventually anyway 
I actually take a slightly different approach to Shaker style kitchen making, which is to use veneered MDF for the painted doors (hardwood is available if wished) but the grain of the veneer shows through the paint anyway and the reduced cost of materials does keep the overall cost of the kitchen under control. I mostly use birch plywood (very high quality laminated hardwood) for the cabinets rather than MDF (which would need to be painted) or MFC (melamine faced chipboard) which would be a better choice in my opinion than MDF.
Are you planning to make the MDF cabinets yourself, or have them made on site? Reason I ask is that I don't actually know of any ready-made MDF cabinets, all the big makers use MFC.
Sorry, forgot to add that if I was looking for a company to fit hardwood (or any other kind) or doors to existing carcases I would Google 'replacement kitchen doors' or have a look on eBay. In both cases they will be assuming that the hinges or at least the hinge plates will already have been fitted to the carcases and will want to know the position of those hinges so that the 35mm holes in the doors can be drilled in the right places
I actually take a slightly different approach to Shaker style kitchen making, which is to use veneered MDF for the painted doors (hardwood is available if wished) but the grain of the veneer shows through the paint anyway and the reduced cost of materials does keep the overall cost of the kitchen under control. I mostly use birch plywood (very high quality laminated hardwood) for the cabinets rather than MDF (which would need to be painted) or MFC (melamine faced chipboard) which would be a better choice in my opinion than MDF.
Are you planning to make the MDF cabinets yourself, or have them made on site? Reason I ask is that I don't actually know of any ready-made MDF cabinets, all the big makers use MFC.
Sorry, forgot to add that if I was looking for a company to fit hardwood (or any other kind) or doors to existing carcases I would Google 'replacement kitchen doors' or have a look on eBay. In both cases they will be assuming that the hinges or at least the hinge plates will already have been fitted to the carcases and will want to know the position of those hinges so that the 35mm holes in the doors can be drilled in the right places
Edited by singlecoil on Saturday 18th May 18:20
Sparkysea said:
Thanks both.
I wasn't necessarily looking for the carcasses to arrive assembled. I am particularly interested in an "in frame" shaker kitchen...is this something you do singlecoil?
I could do it, but choose not to. My kitchens look traditional (though without frames) but are in fact very modern. The majority of modern appliances and hardware are not designed to be used in frames.I wasn't necessarily looking for the carcasses to arrive assembled. I am particularly interested in an "in frame" shaker kitchen...is this something you do singlecoil?
There are lots of ways to make a box and stick a door on it - however in most cases you do get what you pay for.
Personally I would not even consider using plain mdf for kitchen cabinets, veneered at a push but always pre-finished. I hate internally painted cupboards.
There are numerous companies providing 'cheap' cabinets and then put on a nicer door - I woudld prefer painted hardwood but painted mdf is fine.
As said above a lot of appliances are biased towards a lack of front frame, but can easily be done with a bit of clever planning.
Personally I would not even consider using plain mdf for kitchen cabinets, veneered at a push but always pre-finished. I hate internally painted cupboards.
There are numerous companies providing 'cheap' cabinets and then put on a nicer door - I woudld prefer painted hardwood but painted mdf is fine.
As said above a lot of appliances are biased towards a lack of front frame, but can easily be done with a bit of clever planning.
Thanks Blaketron, yes appreciate what you are saying... you get what you pay for but George Clarke of C4 Home Show and C4 website says save on the carcass and go for the door. Which I need to do because am renovating the whole house! Think it is easy to do with current gloss doors but not as easy with the inframe shaker
Before your project gets to complex, have you looked at the in-frame stuff that people like B&Q do? If you have, what was it that you didn't like? My reason for asking is that if you are on a tight budget AND you want in-frame, unless you go to one of the 'sheds' I don't see how you are going to get what you want.
Thinking about it, you might like to have a look at what DIY Kitchens do too. I'm not sure if they do in-frame but several people here have recommended them. Most in-frame kitchens are only basically ordinary carcases with a frame fixed to the front anyway.
Usual solution for an in-frame integrated dishwasher is to fix the door and drawer front to the frame, and have the whole frame open, I always think it looks a bit of a bodge because there has to be a gap around the outside of the frame.
Thinking about it, you might like to have a look at what DIY Kitchens do too. I'm not sure if they do in-frame but several people here have recommended them. Most in-frame kitchens are only basically ordinary carcases with a frame fixed to the front anyway.
Usual solution for an in-frame integrated dishwasher is to fix the door and drawer front to the frame, and have the whole frame open, I always think it looks a bit of a bodge because there has to be a gap around the outside of the frame.
Edited by singlecoil on Saturday 18th May 21:49
singlecoil said:
Usual solution for an in-frame integrated dishwasher is to fix the door and drawer front to the frame, and have the whole frame open, I always think it looks a bit of a bodge because there has to be a gap around the outside of the frame.
Agreed, but it is the only way to get virtually any integrated appliance into an inframe design kitchen.Edited by singlecoil on Saturday 18th May 21:49
Same issue to a lesser extent, the the design uses Drawline units throughout.
Neil - YVM said:
Blakeatron said:
I do like george but this time he is wrong - cheap cabinets will ruin a kitchen no matter how good your doors are.
Agreed. but many people only see what is directly in front of them, i.e doors, handles and worktops.Many of the doors are hanging at angle - it appears that the cheap particleboard is so weak that the hinges have pulled out the screws. The pull out larder is also wonky. The kitchen is less than 2years old and needs replacing.
I would advise you for for dense quality cabinets with proper solid core laminate edging. I would also line the bottom with Lino scuff sheets and drip trays under the sink
singlecoil said:
Sparkysea said:
Thanks both.
I wasn't necessarily looking for the carcasses to arrive assembled. I am particularly interested in an "in frame" shaker kitchen...is this something you do singlecoil?
I could do it, but choose not to. My kitchens look traditional (though without frames) but are in fact very modern. The majority of modern appliances and hardware are not designed to be used in frames.I wasn't necessarily looking for the carcasses to arrive assembled. I am particularly interested in an "in frame" shaker kitchen...is this something you do singlecoil?
stanwan said:
I will have to agree and confirm blakeatron's opinion. The kitchen in our new house was obviously done it with cheap MFC cabinets. Whilst there doesn't appear to be much of a difference once installed its likely to show with continued usage.
Many of the doors are hanging at angle - it appears that the cheap particleboard is so weak that the hinges have pulled out the screws. The pull out larder is also wonky. The kitchen is less than 2years old and needs replacing.
I would advise you for for dense quality cabinets with proper solid core laminate edging. I would also line the bottom with Lino scuff sheets and drip trays under the sink
I would suggest that if MFC is to be used, that the make of the MFC itself be ascertained. When I do MFC kitchens my suppliers cut and edge band the parts from Egger material. Goodness knows where the material for cheap cabinets comes from. Many of the doors are hanging at angle - it appears that the cheap particleboard is so weak that the hinges have pulled out the screws. The pull out larder is also wonky. The kitchen is less than 2years old and needs replacing.
I would advise you for for dense quality cabinets with proper solid core laminate edging. I would also line the bottom with Lino scuff sheets and drip trays under the sink
Always worth anyone buying cabinets having a good look at the hinge hardware, hinge plates should ideally be fixed with 'system' screws, these are fat screws which are specifically designed for use with MFC, reject any that are fitted with ordinary thin screws.
Deva Link said:
If by "in frame" you mean where the doors are smaller than the overall cabinet, then we had a rental house in the family that SIL refurbed and put a shaker kitchen in - he'd bought it 12 months old off eBay as someone was ripping it out as they'd got fed up with it. The wall units were a pain to use as the actual door opening was very narrow so most things had to be maneuvered in and out.
Yes, that's what I mean. They start with a basic cabinet, then fit a frame to it, the door or drawer front then fits into the aperture that remains. Better manufacturers will fit the wall unit frames so that the bottom part of the frame underhangs the cabinet to form a lighting pelmet, places like Howden fit the frame so that the user has to lift stuff over the lip of the frame at the bottom.Quick sketch to show what I was trying to say in the last post.
The cabinet on the left is a typical cheapo, notice the way the bottom of the frame obstructs the placing of items in the base of the cabinet. Cabinet on the right the frame is flush with the inside cabinet base, items can be slid out, the frame acts as a lighting pelmet.
The cabinet on the left is a typical cheapo, notice the way the bottom of the frame obstructs the placing of items in the base of the cabinet. Cabinet on the right the frame is flush with the inside cabinet base, items can be slid out, the frame acts as a lighting pelmet.
singlecoil said:
The cabinet on the left is a typical cheapo, notice the way the bottom of the frame obstructs the placing of items in the base of the cabinet. Cabinet on the right the frame is flush with the inside cabinet base, items can be slid out, the frame acts as a lighting pelmet.
It was the narrowness of the door opening that was more of a problem - I appreciate you've just done an example sketch, but, relatively, the frame was much wider all round on ours and putting dinner plates away meant they had to be twisted to get them in.singlecoil said:
Yes, that's what I mean. They start with a basic cabinet, then fit a frame to it, the door or drawer front then fits into the aperture that remains. Better manufacturers will fit the wall unit frames so that the bottom part of the frame underhangs the cabinet to form a lighting pelmet, places like Howden fit the frame so that the user has to lift stuff over the lip of the frame at the bottom.
The hinges were fixed with proper MFC screws- unfortunately the board is so bad that the hinges have yanked them out!! One of the handles - a cheap multi piece affair has also snapped off the fixings. A couple of hinges have snapped as well....stanwan said:
I will have to agree and confirm blakeatron's opinion. The kitchen in our new house was obviously done it with cheap MFC cabinets. Whilst there doesn't appear to be much of a difference once installed its likely to show with continued usage.
Many of the doors are hanging at angle - it appears that the cheap particleboard is so weak that the hinges have pulled out the screws. The pull out larder is also wonky. The kitchen is less than 2years old and needs replacing.
And this is why it is a shame that people don't see the value in decent carcases.Many of the doors are hanging at angle - it appears that the cheap particleboard is so weak that the hinges have pulled out the screws. The pull out larder is also wonky. The kitchen is less than 2years old and needs replacing.
We have just made some alterations to a kitchen we installed 8 years ago, new owners wanted a range cooker. Apart from the bearings on the magic corner everything else is pretty much as we installed it. Worth paying a little bit more for? I think so.
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