Cast Iron Radiators Leaking
Discussion
Hi,
We have around 15 cast iron radiators that were fitted when we re-plumbed our house. They’re about 3 years old and from, what I understood was, the “best” UK supplier – i.e. not one of the various remanufactured or cheap options.
We noted a few have small leaks at the gaskets over past few months on 3 of them but on closer inspection I’ve found problems on all of them - they all have either a small leak which is wet, a leak which seems to have oxidised but is dry or rust patches. It’s different across all the radiators.
We’ve spoken to the supplier who have said we can have them sent back to the manufacturer and re-worked (albeit when we thought only 3 were an issue). I’ve no experience of cast iron rads really and wondering if perhaps normal they experience very very minor leaks. I’m worried we sent them all back and the replacements have the same issue.
Some of them definitely have issues which I suspect is a manufacturing fault – I don’t want to waste my time trying to fix the rest if an amount of leakage which eventually oxidises up is par for the course with these?
The retailer doesn’t seem great on the technical side and the manufacturer just pointed us to the retailer.
Lastly, it sounds like we’re expected to pay for the plumber to remove and re-fit them. Some of the units are large and will need 4 people to move them out to the road. Great care will need taken with carpeted house etc. All in, I can see it being very expensive for us for it to be done properly. The retailer seems ok with covering all the shipping costs etc. as there is a 10 year warranty on the radiators. Would they have any liability for the labour costs though? I’ll push this but would be good to know is we have any legal right – I suppose they are offering to fix the product they supplied?
All painful stuff. So far we’ve had all the manifolds replaced by that manufacturer because of known issue and all our light switches replaced because of another known issue. Both made by massive brands.
Many thanks for any help.
We have around 15 cast iron radiators that were fitted when we re-plumbed our house. They’re about 3 years old and from, what I understood was, the “best” UK supplier – i.e. not one of the various remanufactured or cheap options.
We noted a few have small leaks at the gaskets over past few months on 3 of them but on closer inspection I’ve found problems on all of them - they all have either a small leak which is wet, a leak which seems to have oxidised but is dry or rust patches. It’s different across all the radiators.
We’ve spoken to the supplier who have said we can have them sent back to the manufacturer and re-worked (albeit when we thought only 3 were an issue). I’ve no experience of cast iron rads really and wondering if perhaps normal they experience very very minor leaks. I’m worried we sent them all back and the replacements have the same issue.
Some of them definitely have issues which I suspect is a manufacturing fault – I don’t want to waste my time trying to fix the rest if an amount of leakage which eventually oxidises up is par for the course with these?
The retailer doesn’t seem great on the technical side and the manufacturer just pointed us to the retailer.
Lastly, it sounds like we’re expected to pay for the plumber to remove and re-fit them. Some of the units are large and will need 4 people to move them out to the road. Great care will need taken with carpeted house etc. All in, I can see it being very expensive for us for it to be done properly. The retailer seems ok with covering all the shipping costs etc. as there is a 10 year warranty on the radiators. Would they have any liability for the labour costs though? I’ll push this but would be good to know is we have any legal right – I suppose they are offering to fix the product they supplied?
All painful stuff. So far we’ve had all the manifolds replaced by that manufacturer because of known issue and all our light switches replaced because of another known issue. Both made by massive brands.
Many thanks for any help.
Thanks. Inhibitor seems fine - the water in the system is still quite clean too (we can see it at the flow valves).
The ones with rust seem to be rusting on the outside surface - like paint job bad or not primed correctly.
The leaking ones seem like the rubber gasket is just leaking a little in places.
I did think about a leak sealer of some type. Feels like a slight bodge given the huge cost of them and I'm worried it gets worse and warranty expires. I don't really have the experience though and I don't think plumber works with cast irons ones much.
They were moved on-site very carefully using the correct lifting method - I helped myself as I was so paranoid about then being damaged.
The ones with rust seem to be rusting on the outside surface - like paint job bad or not primed correctly.
The leaking ones seem like the rubber gasket is just leaking a little in places.
I did think about a leak sealer of some type. Feels like a slight bodge given the huge cost of them and I'm worried it gets worse and warranty expires. I don't really have the experience though and I don't think plumber works with cast irons ones much.
They were moved on-site very carefully using the correct lifting method - I helped myself as I was so paranoid about then being damaged.
What pressure is the system running at? We've got the same number of rads but are all reclaimed and we had 4 done by someone locally but the rest I did with my father. b
h changing some of the bushes and a couple with corrosion all the way through the flow are at the bottom of the rad and cleaned with a 15mm copper pipe. Cleaned out at about 4 bar and then fitted. Had it all flushed and it was the cleanest system he'd ever flushed so not bad. Benn running at 1.75-2 bar ever since (18 months) with no issues. Averaged around £60 per rad plus about £20 for a set of bushes but not all were replaced.
FFG
h changing some of the bushes and a couple with corrosion all the way through the flow are at the bottom of the rad and cleaned with a 15mm copper pipe. Cleaned out at about 4 bar and then fitted. Had it all flushed and it was the cleanest system he'd ever flushed so not bad. Benn running at 1.75-2 bar ever since (18 months) with no issues. Averaged around £60 per rad plus about £20 for a set of bushes but not all were replaced.FFG
I use reproduction cast iron rads in all of my properties - I've never had this problem. However, I wouldn't necessarily know about it because the property would have been sold on.
As I understand it, Carron do not actually make the rads - they only assemble them. The sections will likely have been cast in China and I'm afraid the casting quality isn't that great. Usually a decent gasket will overcome the poor casting I'd imagine.
Given that these rads are generally made up to order - it could be that your batch had faulty gaskets or simply that the person making them up failed to tighten the threaded nuts properly/in sequence or even over tightened them.
They should run up to 4 bar no problem.
As I understand it, Carron do not actually make the rads - they only assemble them. The sections will likely have been cast in China and I'm afraid the casting quality isn't that great. Usually a decent gasket will overcome the poor casting I'd imagine.
Given that these rads are generally made up to order - it could be that your batch had faulty gaskets or simply that the person making them up failed to tighten the threaded nuts properly/in sequence or even over tightened them.
They should run up to 4 bar no problem.
I have replaced a pair of gaskets (1-top & 1-bottom) in one of our radiators, which had started to weep. Relatively straightforward but the tool used to get to the joints is about a metre long.
The link below is the assembly instructions for my rads.
http://www.mhsradiators.co.uk/download/2104/
The link below is the assembly instructions for my rads.
http://www.mhsradiators.co.uk/download/2104/
Years ago I used to work on iron pipe commercial stuff ,an old pipe fitter I worked with used to keep a piece of Welsh slate in his box,he used to use it on small leaks on fittings,he'd hold the slate in the joint and tap it with a hammer ,the slate would break and crumble and he'd keep working it in caulking the joint.
Hi Orbit123,
We installed Carron cast iron radiators throughout in 2013, and over half of them are leaking at the gaskets now. The more the radiators have been used, the more they are leaking - presumably they will all leak eventually.
We're really not keen to replace them piecemeal, not least because the inhibitors will cost another >£100 when it is all drained down and anticipating labour will be thousands.
How did Carron deal with your situation? I would consider replacing them all with new versions and hopefully improved gaskets (their warranty is now 'lifetime') - but given that a few of them weight >400 kg I certainly don't want to go through this process ever again.
I would greatly appreciate any advice.
We installed Carron cast iron radiators throughout in 2013, and over half of them are leaking at the gaskets now. The more the radiators have been used, the more they are leaking - presumably they will all leak eventually.
We're really not keen to replace them piecemeal, not least because the inhibitors will cost another >£100 when it is all drained down and anticipating labour will be thousands.
How did Carron deal with your situation? I would consider replacing them all with new versions and hopefully improved gaskets (their warranty is now 'lifetime') - but given that a few of them weight >400 kg I certainly don't want to go through this process ever again.
I would greatly appreciate any advice.
Edited by TommyFF on Monday 16th April 21:27
Hi,
we contacted the company we bought them through who said they would arrange collection and replacement from Carron if we had them all outside our house for collection. That was after a lot of complaining and I had to do a test to check our inhibitor (which was fine). No-one would confirm if the next batch would just have same issues. Our x15 are all upstairs and a fair few of them take 4 strong people to move. I had our plumber get rough costs and with drain, new inhibitor, disconnection and re-connection and all the labour it was into thousands. Add to that the inevitable accidents and damage to wall or carpets and also having no heating (so only possible in summer). Plumber we have now is a decent guy but he didn't fit them in 1st place and said it would be terrible job he'd really want to bill well for.
In the end up I added some fernox leak sealer and it seems to have done the job so far on almost all of them in terms of stopping proper leaks.
We have a lot of "rust" marks on some of ours which seems to just be surface rust - like those parts didn't get enough paint at factory. I have some paint I'm going to try at some point on that. Some of the sections are clearly out of alignment now I know more - and the paint is sealed there so they were build in factory like that vs moving during delivery. Quality control must be terrible. Plumber was surprised with the rubber gaskets being used by Carron between sections and I think expected something more like you'd see in an old car cylinder head.
I should have taken it all further but exhaustion got the better of me - the seller wasn't very interested in anything beyond collection and return and legal was my next option. I wrote to Carron who just said our contract was with the company that sold then - no interest at all.
I had to get most of the electrical switches in our house replaced as they had some kind of manufacturing fault too.
Last year we had a problem with valves (which are really just decorative and left fully open on ours as we have manifold controls). The valves were sold from same place with the radiators. Basically if you turn them off (as our decorator did by mistake) they jump a thread and won't open again. I've figured out a little fix for that myself. Pretty poor too though.
Let me know if you get anywhere or want to trade info (I got your PM) - they cost us a fortune and I picked over other cheaper ones (which looked same) as I just wanted the best and least hassle option - type of thing that should really last almost forever in my view. My big worry was that I'd pay a fortune to get them swapped and then new ones would just have the same problem as the problem is in production.
I was surprised with the manufacturer take on it - most other things you buy these days (including the above electrical switches) the manufacturer gets right in there and helps.
Cheers.
we contacted the company we bought them through who said they would arrange collection and replacement from Carron if we had them all outside our house for collection. That was after a lot of complaining and I had to do a test to check our inhibitor (which was fine). No-one would confirm if the next batch would just have same issues. Our x15 are all upstairs and a fair few of them take 4 strong people to move. I had our plumber get rough costs and with drain, new inhibitor, disconnection and re-connection and all the labour it was into thousands. Add to that the inevitable accidents and damage to wall or carpets and also having no heating (so only possible in summer). Plumber we have now is a decent guy but he didn't fit them in 1st place and said it would be terrible job he'd really want to bill well for.
In the end up I added some fernox leak sealer and it seems to have done the job so far on almost all of them in terms of stopping proper leaks.
We have a lot of "rust" marks on some of ours which seems to just be surface rust - like those parts didn't get enough paint at factory. I have some paint I'm going to try at some point on that. Some of the sections are clearly out of alignment now I know more - and the paint is sealed there so they were build in factory like that vs moving during delivery. Quality control must be terrible. Plumber was surprised with the rubber gaskets being used by Carron between sections and I think expected something more like you'd see in an old car cylinder head.
I should have taken it all further but exhaustion got the better of me - the seller wasn't very interested in anything beyond collection and return and legal was my next option. I wrote to Carron who just said our contract was with the company that sold then - no interest at all.
I had to get most of the electrical switches in our house replaced as they had some kind of manufacturing fault too.
Last year we had a problem with valves (which are really just decorative and left fully open on ours as we have manifold controls). The valves were sold from same place with the radiators. Basically if you turn them off (as our decorator did by mistake) they jump a thread and won't open again. I've figured out a little fix for that myself. Pretty poor too though.
Let me know if you get anywhere or want to trade info (I got your PM) - they cost us a fortune and I picked over other cheaper ones (which looked same) as I just wanted the best and least hassle option - type of thing that should really last almost forever in my view. My big worry was that I'd pay a fortune to get them swapped and then new ones would just have the same problem as the problem is in production.
I was surprised with the manufacturer take on it - most other things you buy these days (including the above electrical switches) the manufacturer gets right in there and helps.
Cheers.
montecristo said:
I've bought about 30 over the years from castironradiators.biz with no leaks so far. They told me that no one has the casting foundry to make them in the UK any more, everyone has them made in China.
Not the place I bought them from but they sell the same valves we have - so I expect some Carron link there too.orbit123 said:
Not the place I bought them from but they sell the same valves we have - so I expect some Carron link there too.
Sorry but I'm afraid Carron do not manufacture the radiators. They simply order in from Chinese foundries like everyone else. They assemble them over here and paint them, but that is quite different to actually making them themselves. Like most things from China, they are poor quality. If you go to a reclamation yard and closely inspect some genuine old British ones you will see a world of difference in the quality of the casting.
I've used Paladin, Carron and a couple of other suppliers, they are all the same. Sadly I'm not aware of any British casting foundries making them?
To be fair to the Chinese, the casting on our ones all seems fine - it's the assembly part that is terrible. Sections not aligned properly, not painted properly and we're not that sure rubber gaskets will be correct thing to use for this. Now I think on it more a gasket sealing a radiator should probably be more like what is used in a car.
This is a very helpful perspective, thank you very much. It all sounds a bit hopeless if these cast iron radiators start to leak.
Our CH water has been tested annually & the boiler serviced annually, and the inhibitors are always adequately topped up.. pH is always within the correct range etc.
Some companies use 'paper' gaskets e.g. http://www.sovereignradiators.com. If anyone has had experience of them, please do share.
Thanks again.
Update: a materials engineer has advised me that silicone gaskets are inappropriate for this purpose and will likely perish long before 'paper' / leather gaskets
Our CH water has been tested annually & the boiler serviced annually, and the inhibitors are always adequately topped up.. pH is always within the correct range etc.
Some companies use 'paper' gaskets e.g. http://www.sovereignradiators.com. If anyone has had experience of them, please do share.
Thanks again.
Update: a materials engineer has advised me that silicone gaskets are inappropriate for this purpose and will likely perish long before 'paper' / leather gaskets
Edited by TommyFF on Monday 16th April 22:27
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