Flickering G9 LED's - are they all this bad?

[oldcynic]

I stupidly bought an 8 bulb light fitting for my kitchen a couple of months back - looks great, very bright, but with 8 x 40 watt halogen bulbs it's like turning on a sun lamp in our kitchen.

So roll on a few weeks and I'm sick of wasting electricity and getting hot, so I bought 10 LED bulbs from Amazon for the princely sum of £12.88 - decent enough reviews, don't look too ugly, except when I swap the halogens for led's I discover:

1. They're not as bright. That's OK - we're well and truly tanned from the few weeks the halogens have been in, and the led's are bright enough.

2. They flicker. Properly flicker. Move your hand in front of them and it's like there's a strobe light in the room.

I've replaced bulbs all over the rest of the house with LED's and not seen this problem, so have I bought a bad batch or will all the tiny LED lights flicker like this? The other bulbs have been regular sized or at least 'candle' sized so more space for components and cooling.

I have a feeling the only reason the bulbs won't go back for a refund is to get a decent energy survey when the house goes on the market in a few weeks, after which the sun lamp will be reinstated; if I need to pay £5 or more per bulb then there's no point for the few months we expect to stay living here.

Has anyone had a decent experience of replacing small (G9 or similar) halogens with LED's without spending a small fortune?

[matthias73]

My grandad, a former Luftwaffe engineer and electrical engineer subsequently, has recently been granted a few patents for his work regarding flickering LED lights.

I understand the invention he has made will make it easy for companies to test their lights in the manufacturing process to ensure they don't flicker. I think he may have also designed a regulator of sorts too.

Amazing, for a 92 year old working from home. I'll have to phone him up and find out exactly what it was that he invented.

[garycat]

There are good batches and bad batches. I bought some in May and some bulbs have already gone darker, with individual LEDs within the bulb not working.

(these ones - http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00V636VKS?psc=... )

However, these ones which I bought 18 months ago are still workng well

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00EL8EG9S?psc=...


I too notice the flicker sometimes but only with fast movement, as they are in the bathroom it has an interesting effect on a golden stream of water (if you know what I mean )

[Jakg]

I've noticed a similar thing - I've kitted out my whole house with LEDs from LEDHut, and most of them are fine (in the typical bayonet / edison fittings) but the G9 ones I have in a bathroom do flicker. Mine were a bit more than £11, too...

[silverous]

Isn't the issue to do with minimum/maximum loads on transformers? I've had issues with a few replacement LEDs and found that increasing the load (i.e. putting more of them off the same transformer that low voltage halogens were on) took the transformer above its minimum load rating and resolved the situation.

[garycat]

silverous said:

Isn't the issue to do with minimum/maximum loads on transformers? I've had issues with a few replacement LEDs and found that increasing the load (i.e. putting more of them off the same transformer that low voltage halogens were on) took the transformer above its minimum load rating and resolved the situation.

G9s are mains voltage so don't use a transformer.

[Zoon]

I think you'll need an LED driver to run them properly, halogen transformers don't work too well for some reason.

I had some halogen downlights in the kitchen and swapped them for LED, they worked for about three weeks until they failed completely.

[silverous]

garycat said:

G9s are mains voltage so don't use a transformer.

Oops. Good point. I changed some G9s over so should have known that. Mine have had no issues although they weren't a particularly snug fit where they connect up, they seem to do the job and the light is very much like daylight (such that we end up leaving them on sometimes! )

[Dodsy]

My G9's dont flicker, but then I paid a lot more for them - but then I only needed 4, IIRC about £8 each.

[finlo]

Are they on a dimmer?

[oldcynic]

finlo said:

Are they on a dimmer?

Yes, they're mains voltage and no, they're not on a dimmer.

A little googling suggests to me that they're manufactured to a size and a budget - and with the other LED bulbs in the house costing £8 or more each I guess it's hardly surprising to see a contrast. Trouble is that even if I could trust that an £8 bulb would be better, that's £64 to populate my kitchen light fitting.

I think I was caught out because I've populated my caravan with cheap LED bulbs, but of course that's running at 12V DC so no flickering problem - despite the best efforts of the solar charger there's a huge battery connected to keep everything stable.

I'll look into lower wattage halogen bulbs as a halfway house, or just put the 40's back in when the weather cools off and I haven't got round to dealing with the problem

[E36GUY]

oldcynic said:

Yes, they're mains voltage and no, they're not on a dimmer.

A little googling suggests to me that they're manufactured to a size and a budget - and with the other LED bulbs in the house costing £8 or more each I guess it's hardly surprising to see a contrast. Trouble is that even if I could trust that an £8 bulb would be better, that's £64 to populate my kitchen light fitting.

I think I was caught out because I've populated my caravan with cheap LED bulbs, but of course that's running at 12V DC so no flickering problem - despite the best efforts of the solar charger there's a huge battery connected to keep everything stable.

I'll look into lower wattage halogen bulbs as a halfway house, or just put the 40's back in when the weather cools off and I haven't got round to dealing with the problem

Your issue is £12 for ten lamps. This is absolutely bottom of the barrel quality in all respects. They've got decent reviews? From whom? Certified lighting experts qualified to comment on such? Unlikely. Even the £8 lamps you mention are still at the lower end of the market for quality. It's not neccessarily that they won't do the job of illuminating your space so you can see but it's how they do it.

There is an absolute chasm between good and bad in the LED world. For example, retrofits with the quality of diodes that we use would cost you £25 each and at that point you're in proper down light territory. Aspects such as the colour rendering index (CRI) and the number of Macadam Steps of the diode will affect how the lamp interracts with the colours of your interior choices either negatively or positively. The lay person clearly won't know this at the outset and most retailers don't either so don't or simply couldn't give that person the right information to make an informed choice. They simply focus on the energy saving but that's only part of it if you are looking for a high quality finish overall.

It's like anything else, a Hyundai will get you to and from work safely, in reasonable quiet comfort with no fuss but if you want the BMW Msport with HK, Nav and leather you'll pay more.

[hairyben]

£1.29

[oldcynic]

E36GUY said:

Your issue is £12 for ten lamps. This is absolutely bottom of the barrel quality in all respects. They've got decent reviews? From whom? Certified lighting experts qualified to comment on such? Unlikely. Even the £8 lamps you mention are still at the lower end of the market for quality. It's not neccessarily that they won't do the job of illuminating your space so you can see but it's how they do it.

There is an absolute chasm between good and bad in the LED world. For example, retrofits with the quality of diodes that we use would cost you £25 each and at that point you're in proper down light territory. Aspects such as the colour rendering index (CRI) and the number of Macadam Steps of the diode will affect how the lamp interracts with the colours of your interior choices either negatively or positively. The lay person clearly won't know this at the outset and most retailers don't either so don't or simply couldn't give that person the right information to make an informed choice. They simply focus on the energy saving but that's only part of it if you are looking for a high quality finish overall.

It's like anything else, a Hyundai will get you to and from work safely, in reasonable quiet comfort with no fuss but if you want the BMW Msport with HK, Nav and leather you'll pay more.

I've no doubt you're right, but even if I'm willing to pay £25 per bulb I've no idea how to pick a decent one.

My house is currently being decorated in magnolia emulsion and white gloss in preparation for sale, so finding the Hyundai of light bulbs is exactly right - inoffensive, functional, sensibly priced. The latest batch is rather more Lada or Trabant than Hyundai, and bottom of that range too, so I don't think they'll be installed beyond several hours after the EPC Certificate is issued.

Thanks for the various responses. I shall choose my light fittings more carefully in future.

ETA I guess what I really wanted to know is whether there's any reasonable LED bulbs out there at a sensible price, and if so how do I find them?

Edited by oldcynic on Wednesday 26th August 23:03

[E36GUY]

oldcynic said:

I've no doubt you're right, but even if I'm willing to pay £25 per bulb I've no idea how to pick a decent one.

My house is currently being decorated in magnolia emulsion and white gloss in preparation for sale, so finding the Hyundai of light bulbs is exactly right - inoffensive, functional, sensibly priced. The latest batch is rather more Lada or Trabant than Hyundai, and bottom of that range too, so I don't think they'll be installed beyond several hours after the EPC Certificate is issued.

Thanks for the various responses. I shall choose my light fittings more carefully in future.

ETA I guess what I really wanted to know is whether there's any reasonable LED bulbs out there at a sensible price, and if so how do I find them?

You, cough, speak to a specialist in the business and take their advice. Where to find one though.....

[Dodsy]

I've had these in since 2012 and they are still working fine, bit cheaper now than when I bought them £5.29 + free delivery. Maybe just order 1 and try it, if it works order the rest

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B005KIPAA2?psc=...

[garycat]

I just bought these and am very impressed - no flickering that I can see despite my dimmer switch being 6 years old and probably pre-dating the LED compatible ones. They are as bright as the 35w halogens they replaced but I cannot comment on the longevity as I only fitted them yesterday.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00V5QI36G?psc=... (the bulbs, not the chandelier)

Edited by garycat on Sunday 6th September 08:56

[oldcynic]

Thanks for that.

The halogens are back in for the moment and the kitchen looks much better as a result; they will probably stay there until we hopefully sell in the next couple of months, but if I try again with LED's I'll take a look at them.

[David-hn2nm]

Did you ever sort out the problem with the strobe effect on the G9 LED bulbs. I've just replaced the lighting in my front room to have this same problem. Has anyone come across some G9 LEDs that don't cause flickering.

I have also come across a great way to check. Use your mobile phone camera close to the LED light. If there is lines across the picture it is showing up the strobing/flicker effect.

It would be great to hear from someone who has found a solution to this problem.

[RYH64E]

I've replaced all of the bulbs in the house with LEDs except the G9s, the colour never seems right. It's a bit annoying as there are 10 40w G9s in the living room, 6 in the hallway and 6 in the dining room.