Covenant on property, how do i find this?

[Vincefox]

I'm looking at putting a fence up along the edge of my driveway where it runs alongside my neighbours. Below legal height and not requiring planning but he seems to think there's a covenant for the estate preventing fencing.

I've contacted my council but heard sod all back, where should this be written? I can't find it on my house paperwork anywhere but want it in writing before i pay to build the damn thing.

[anonymous-user]

If there is one it will be in the deeds to the property

If you don't have these you can download from the land registry for a few quid.

[akirk]

go onto the land registry website and download a copy of your deeds...

[Vincefox]

Thanks chaps, much appreciated.

[TooMany2cvs]

Vincefox said:

but he seems to think there's a covenant for the estate preventing fencing.

Entirely possible and likely if you live on some kind of estate-developed area, even if it was developed long ago.

The more relevant question is whether anybody is ever likely to enforce the covenant. Your neighbour can't. The council can't. Only the beneficiary of the covenant can. That might be the house builder company, or it might be an individual - or whoever inherited his estate, or whoever inherited their estate.

[Cyberprog]

TooMany2cvs said:

Entirely possible and likely if you live on some kind of estate-developed area, even if it was developed long ago.

The more relevant question is whether anybody is ever likely to enforce the covenant. Your neighbour can't. The council can't. Only the beneficiary of the covenant can. That might be the house builder company, or it might be an individual - or whoever inherited his estate, or whoever inherited their estate.

The discussion I had with the people who had inherited our covenant benefits, was that they only enforced them when lots of people complained and/or during the building of the estate.

[aw51 121565]

The Land Registry only holds a copy of the title deeds, which don't include covenants (such as a requirement for front gardens to be open plan, for example), from memory. Or perhaps not all LR records are as basic as those they hold for my property, and some have the full info including covenants?

The fine details will be in the paper copy which is presumably held by the mortgage lender (assuming there is a mortgage) or should otherwise be held somewhere safe (in a safe).

[dingg]

TooMany2cvs said:

Entirely possible and likely if you live on some kind of estate-developed area, even if it was developed long ago.

The more relevant question is whether anybody is ever likely to enforce the covenant. Your neighbour can't. The council can't. Only the beneficiary of the covenant can. That might be the house builder company, or it might be an individual - or whoever inherited his estate, or whoever inherited their estate.

take care on what you advise the neighbour could easily be the beneficiary of the covenant , so could well enforce the condition .

On my property certain covenants were applied to the properties that were built on land that was sold in the 1920's , they all(the covenants) were designed to protect the original landowner (quite commonplace) when the freehold of the land was turned over to the new owner he became the beneficiary , so in short on one side of my property I'm the beneficiary of the covenant as I'm the owner of the land that was sold after my neighbours(I can enforce the covenants over their property) , but my other neighbour has the benefit over my property as his land was bought after my house was built.

My 'old' neighbour did try to enforce a covenant over our property only to find that he didn't have the power to do so but we had the power over his property (all down to when the properties were built/sold), isn't fate quite kind?

he no longer owns the property next door.....

[Jobbo]

TooMany2cvs said:

Vincefox said:

but he seems to think there's a covenant for the estate preventing fencing.

Entirely possible and likely if you live on some kind of estate-developed area, even if it was developed long ago.

The more relevant question is whether anybody is ever likely to enforce the covenant. Your neighbour can't. The council can't. Only the beneficiary of the covenant can. That might be the house builder company, or it might be an individual - or whoever inherited his estate, or whoever inherited their estate.

That's bad advice - if it is an estate with a similar covenant on other properties, it's most probably a scheme of development. In that instance, such covenants are mutually enforceable; see Brunner v. Greenslade (a 1970 case). So all neighbours may well be able to enforce it. Whether they are likely to do so in practice is another matter.

Note that this does not just apply to covenants imposed since the case was decided in 1970, either.

[akirk]

aw51 121565 said:

The Land Registry only holds a copy of the title deeds, which don't include covenants (such as a requirement for front gardens to be open plan, for example), from memory. Or perhaps not all LR records are as basic as those they hold for my property, and some have the full info including covenants?

The fine details will be in the paper copy which is presumably held by the mortgage lender (assuming there is a mortgage) or should otherwise be held somewhere safe (in a safe).

Depends, mine has all the covenants in it as well

[Busa mav]

akirk said:

Depends, mine has all the covenants in it as well

Same here, I think he is confusing planning conditions with covenants.

[Muncher]

If there is a covenant it will be on the title at the land registry or referred to on the title at the land registry (by reference to a previous transfer) if it isn't there, there isn't one.

The covenant will state who the beneficiaries are, which may include your neighbours, but the general aim of those covenants was to keep the development looking tidy whilst the developer was still trying to sell off remaining units. If you get hold of the title, let me know as I'm a property lawyer.

[parakitaMol.]

As others have said, on deeds. We looked into having a covenant enforced and found it was completely impossible.

[Billsnemesis]

The correct place to look for covenants is on the land registry records and they are cheap and easy to download.

I have seen these covenants as a common entry on developments prohibiting fences between the houses and the road. They are intended to preserve the open plan nature of the front gardens. If they are correctly worded then they are enforceable but it would be necessary to check the wording very carefully.

If you can find the wording and post it up here then it may be possible to get someone to express an opinion on enforceability.

[blueg33]

Depending on the age of the property the covenant may be there to enforce a planning condition.

If the property is older there is no guarantee that the covenants will be detailed on the title, there may just be a passing reference stating that covenants exist.

Its only £4 to download the title so still worth doing.

Ten scheme of development point above is relevant and can bite

[richie99]

Some great covenants on my house. No washing hanging out on Sundays. You can't wash your car on the drive but have to drive it through the garage to a yard behind to wash it. Even has doors at both ends of the garage to permit this. No one left to enforce them now though.

[davek_964]

richie99 said:

Some great covenants on my house. No washing hanging out on Sundays. You can't wash your car on the drive but have to drive it through the garage to a yard behind to wash it. Even has doors at both ends of the garage to permit this. No one left to enforce them now though.

I vaguely recall that mine has a covenant saying that fences in the rear garden are not allowed to be over 4ft tall. Every house on the street has 6ft fences these days though.

[mcflurry]

My old house, built in 1857, had a restriction on unmarried couples living there..
Somehow doubt that would be enforced these days

[parakitaMol.]

davek_964 said:

richie99 said:

Some great covenants on my house. No washing hanging out on Sundays. You can't wash your car on the drive but have to drive it through the garage to a yard behind to wash it. Even has doors at both ends of the garage to permit this. No one left to enforce them now though.

I vaguely recall that mine has a covenant saying that fences in the rear garden are not allowed to be over 4ft tall. Every house on the street has 6ft fences these days though.

That was a similar one to the one we had, ours was no buildings or chattels and also no bonfires on Sundays or between dawn and dusk. Our neighbour decided to spend the entire summer cutting down and burning woodland (that he owned) behind our house - from 8am when his tree blokes arrived - we needed gas masks and the whole house and everything in it stunk of wood burning - we tried to find out how to enforce the dawn to dusk and Sunday rule (to have a break from it) and our solicitor said you can't really enforce it. Maybe newer ones are clearer or stronger in case - I don't know but it was all a bit of a waste of time.

[akirk]

they can be enforceable, I know someone who made a lot of money selling the 'cancelling' of a covenant... all in a) the wording and b) someone being around who is allowed to enforce it