Smart Meters - how to avoid for time being
Discussion
My utility company tells me it wants to fit smart meters to my electric and gas.
As I understand it, this hasn't been made complusory, so I can just say no - fair enough.
I have concerns on the data security side anyway and they seem to be a bit early on their rollout as apparently the 'national network' won't be up and running until next April at the earliest - which means that at the moment, smart meters from different suppliers are incompatible - which means that you can't switch companies and retain 'Smart' features - should you want them.
Anyone know of any companies which are doing a slower rollout? Companies which haven't started yet?
No doubt Utility Company Snooping is inevitable in the long run but I'd like to put it off until at least some of the glitches in their systems have been fixed or until the whole thing goes up in smoke or I run up the curtains and join the choir invisible.
As I understand it, this hasn't been made complusory, so I can just say no - fair enough.
I have concerns on the data security side anyway and they seem to be a bit early on their rollout as apparently the 'national network' won't be up and running until next April at the earliest - which means that at the moment, smart meters from different suppliers are incompatible - which means that you can't switch companies and retain 'Smart' features - should you want them.
Anyone know of any companies which are doing a slower rollout? Companies which haven't started yet?
No doubt Utility Company Snooping is inevitable in the long run but I'd like to put it off until at least some of the glitches in their systems have been fixed or until the whole thing goes up in smoke or I run up the curtains and join the choir invisible.
footnote said:
Anyone know of any companies which are doing a slower rollout? Companies which haven't started yet?
I'm with BG and they haven't mentioned anything about a smart meter. Or if they have, I didn't notice it.There was a feature on these things on Watchdog recently - looks like another expensive mess created by the insatiable drive for 'tech'.
Glade said:
What's the privacy concern...
Ok, they know you put the kettle on half way through coronation St. So what?
Internet connected, so capable of constant real-time monitoring, and there are concerns about the security and ability to resist unauthorised access : http://www.scmagazineuk.com/why-smart-meters-need-... and tampering http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/10/30/smart_mete...Ok, they know you put the kettle on half way through coronation St. So what?
Also a step towards the utility companies being able to turn off domestic (Internet of Things) devices to manage demand.
Glade said:
What's the privacy concern...
Ok, they know you put the kettle on half way through coronation St. So what?
You see that other thread about talk talk leaking everyone's details? That. The more connected things are, the more security holes there are. And most IOT devices so far have been shown to have appalling security.Ok, they know you put the kettle on half way through coronation St. So what?
Consider how jeeps were recently hacked by going in through the media system. Why can a media system give access to the brakes? Similarly people will find their bank accounts being hacked by people accessing via their meters or fridges.
That's without getting on to the "demand management" side of things.
Lot's of stories about smart meters causing other problems also
One of my tenants had a smart meter installed which led to the consumer unit tripping every night meaning they had to reset every morning.
Had full test on electrical installation done which showed no problems. Elec company didn't want to know so I've had the meter removed.
No way will any of properties be getting a smart meter!
One of my tenants had a smart meter installed which led to the consumer unit tripping every night meaning they had to reset every morning.
Had full test on electrical installation done which showed no problems. Elec company didn't want to know so I've had the meter removed.
No way will any of properties be getting a smart meter!
marshalla said:
Glade said:
What's the privacy concern...
Ok, they know you put the kettle on half way through coronation St. So what?
Internet connected, so capable of constant real-time monitoring, and there are concerns about the security and ability to resist unauthorised access : http://www.scmagazineuk.com/why-smart-meters-need-... and tampering http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/10/30/smart_mete...Ok, they know you put the kettle on half way through coronation St. So what?
Also a step towards the utility companies being able to turn off domestic (Internet of Things) devices to manage demand.
his comments were quite concerning (I'll get my tin foil hat 
) I'm certainly with Marshalla's last comment after the chat that you will not be in control of when your electricity supply may or may not be on.
Glade said:
What's the privacy concern...
Ok, they know you put the kettle on half way through coronation St. So what?
Or you're doing the ironing. Or anything that uses 3kw of power for a couple of minutes. I really don't get the privacy concerns with these. I would hold out until they have been standardised though. Ok, they know you put the kettle on half way through coronation St. So what?
roofer said:
Can we charge them for using our internet ? ... 
They have their own sim card.
Trif said:
I really don't get the privacy concerns with these.
I think the worry is how it communicates the info to the supplier and what the supplier does with that. It will not change the way I live, I do not trust it, I do not trust the companies to be resilient enough, Talk Talk anyone?
If I had a two week holiday then my usage would be minimal, observably so on any data.
So, I will say no, and I will send them a meter reading.
This is very interesting. My supplier has installed one in my factory. The reason they gave me was that the old meter has to be replaced for safety reasons as it was 40 years sold, it seemed to be working fine however.
I'd assume the small box I have now with two flashing lights on it is a 'Smart meter' then?
I'd assume the small box I have now with two flashing lights on it is a 'Smart meter' then?
jmorgan said:
I think the worry is how it communicates the info to the supplier and what the supplier does with that.
It will not change the way I live, I do not trust it, I do not trust the companies to be resilient enough, Talk Talk anyone?
If I had a two week holiday then my usage would be minimal, observably so on any data.
So, I will say no, and I will send them a meter reading.
They already hold far more valuable information then how much electricity you are using. Someone looking to rob your place will not be hacking into your utilities providers system to see if you are gone. They will be checking it out in person and seeing if you do have anything of value. The big problems are not the accurate billing smart meters provide, it is the lack of care to security business has and the credential duplication that most of us do. It will not change the way I live, I do not trust it, I do not trust the companies to be resilient enough, Talk Talk anyone?
If I had a two week holiday then my usage would be minimal, observably so on any data.
So, I will say no, and I will send them a meter reading.
Trif said:
They already hold far more valuable information then how much electricity you are using. Someone looking to rob your place will not be hacking into your utilities providers system to see if you are gone. They will be checking it out in person and seeing if you do have anything of value. The big problems are not the accurate billing smart meters provide, it is the lack of care to security business has and the credential duplication that most of us do.
It is all new, I do not think it is known all the issues that may arise. That is one of mine. Why look at one house when you can rig up a receiver and drive through an estate. There would appear to be options for the nefarious goings on.But the main issue for me is, I give them a meter reading, that pretty much says what I have used. This ology sends them the same info. But with a few more things it can do that I do not like.
Glade said:
What's the privacy concern...
Ok, they know you put the kettle on half way through coronation St. So what?
At the very least, periods of time when your energy use is reduced will be pretty much public knowledge, or available to those who can break the rudimentary security. Like when you're on holiday. 'Break in here, no one is here!' Ok, they know you put the kettle on half way through coronation St. So what?
It's interesting how free people are with their information - stating that whether they are at home boiling the kettle is of no interest or value to anyone - and yet, if it has no value or interest, then why do the utility companies want it?
It's certainly not tocut my usage and save me money on my bill - they're not turkeys voting for Christmas.
And £11billion is a lot to spend just so that I don't have the trauma of an estimated bill in the future - poor me!
It'll be interesting when people get say an NIP in the future, and perhaps claim they weren't driveing at the time - heaven forbid.
But Mr Jones, you live alone don't you? And it was a freezing night at 2am and yet your electric and gas usage for the time shows no usage - isn't it more likely you were driving the vehicle?
The person you claim was driving, Ms Y, also lives alone and her electric consumption is consistent with a kettle being boiled and a television being watched over an extended period of time.
Just a thought...
It's certainly not tocut my usage and save me money on my bill - they're not turkeys voting for Christmas.
And £11billion is a lot to spend just so that I don't have the trauma of an estimated bill in the future - poor me!
It'll be interesting when people get say an NIP in the future, and perhaps claim they weren't driveing at the time - heaven forbid.
But Mr Jones, you live alone don't you? And it was a freezing night at 2am and yet your electric and gas usage for the time shows no usage - isn't it more likely you were driving the vehicle?
The person you claim was driving, Ms Y, also lives alone and her electric consumption is consistent with a kettle being boiled and a television being watched over an extended period of time.
Just a thought...
richie99 said:
At the very least, periods of time when your energy use is reduced will be pretty much public knowledge, or available to those who can break the rudimentary security. Like when you're on holiday. 'Break in here, no one is here!'
Do you really think that is likely?!A common burglar wanting to take a TV down to cash converters (which is what 90+ of household burglaries are) is not going to have the capability to hack a electric companies network, and the people who do have that capability are not going to be a household burglar after a £50 TV. Even if you knew you could take an expensive car, the data they could pull off the network is far far more valuable than risking prison for a £30k BMW.
The National Grid has a very difficult job managing expected demand, and we produce a lot of energy which is wasted but there as a buffer against increases in demand - about 8% from memory. If that can be safely reduced to 2 or 3% then why not? If someone knows that I have a shower at 8am, who cares?
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