Builder charged too much for extra materials ?
Discussion
Hi, I have a question for all th PH building massive out there.
The front ground window has always had a rusty lintel, so as I am moving next year I thought I would finally get it done.
Got a recommended builder to quote and he seemed good as had done work down the road, his quote was expensive but time is running out before I put the house on the market so went with him.
This is the works he quoted for :
Acro prop to support load above window
Cut out and remove 3x courses of brickwork above window
Supply and Install single leaf I.G lintel
Include DPC and weep holes to prevent damp
Replace the 3x courses of brickwork with face bricks to match existing
Once cured remove acro props
We have allowed for the disposal of any debris created by ourselves
When he cut the brickwork, it was found it was not an ig lintel but a catnic box style lintel, so to avoid disturbance to the internal decoration, he proposed to cut out the rusty metal and install a heavy duty concrete lintel to support what was left of the metal lintel. Me not having a clue asked how much and he said £180 for the extra material, so 'sounded' ok and told him to do that.
I since have found concrete lintels are pretty cheap and he probably only used about 6 extra bricks, I did ask him why the lintel was so expensive compared to the travis Perkins I phoned but he replied it was a heavy duty concrete lintel, but Google does not reveal any distinction between the types of concrete used in lintels.
I'm happy with his work but not too happy with his inflated materials cost ! Any ideas ?
The front ground window has always had a rusty lintel, so as I am moving next year I thought I would finally get it done.
Got a recommended builder to quote and he seemed good as had done work down the road, his quote was expensive but time is running out before I put the house on the market so went with him.
This is the works he quoted for :
Acro prop to support load above window
Cut out and remove 3x courses of brickwork above window
Supply and Install single leaf I.G lintel
Include DPC and weep holes to prevent damp
Replace the 3x courses of brickwork with face bricks to match existing
Once cured remove acro props
We have allowed for the disposal of any debris created by ourselves
When he cut the brickwork, it was found it was not an ig lintel but a catnic box style lintel, so to avoid disturbance to the internal decoration, he proposed to cut out the rusty metal and install a heavy duty concrete lintel to support what was left of the metal lintel. Me not having a clue asked how much and he said £180 for the extra material, so 'sounded' ok and told him to do that.
I since have found concrete lintels are pretty cheap and he probably only used about 6 extra bricks, I did ask him why the lintel was so expensive compared to the travis Perkins I phoned but he replied it was a heavy duty concrete lintel, but Google does not reveal any distinction between the types of concrete used in lintels.
I'm happy with his work but not too happy with his inflated materials cost ! Any ideas ?
Knowing a few people in the trade, mark up on materials is pretty common as it gives them an additional profit. Some won't do the work without supplying their own materials, due to knowing what they've bought is OK (and the mark up, of course).
I think it's a case of suck it up, especially if you are happy with the job.
People are happy to pay hundreds extra for a reversing camera on their car when the unit price is pence. It's just the way thinks are.
Jon
I think it's a case of suck it up, especially if you are happy with the job.
People are happy to pay hundreds extra for a reversing camera on their car when the unit price is pence. It's just the way thinks are.
Jon
227bhp said:
You can try to dissect it all you like, but where is it going to get you? It isn't a massive amount of money.
I would just like to let the builder know that he is pretty much doubling his materials costs, especially when he said he would just charge me for the extra materials. It's not the amount it's the principle....rs4al said:
I would just like to let the builder know that he is pretty much doubling his materials costs, especially when he said he would just charge me for the extra materials. It's not the amount it's the principle....
I'm sure he'll be really concerned.Factor in his cost leaving site, driving around trying to find a lintel and down time, then deduct the fact that he should have done a proper survey and come with the right materials in the first place. As you see it quickly becomes difficult to break it down, so all you'll do is wind yourself up in knots for no real reason.
Jesus I'd like to work for you lot who think it's reasonable.
Builder took a guess and got it wrong.
There would be a bit more work - was that charged for ?
Generally a concrete lintel is cheaper than the equivalent steel.
There are heavy duty versions - they are deeper - ie 130mm rather than 65mm
Presumably you can now see the lintol in the facing brickwork ? - I'd have thought he'd have used an L shape steel
Wickes give a good idea on prices - no one pays list at a builders merchant.
http://www.wickes.co.uk/Products/Building-Material...
EDIT - do you mean he fitted an extra lintol inside the old steel on the inner blockwork and then used the original planned steel on the outer ?
Still sounds like less than £100 extra, all in, to me.
Builder took a guess and got it wrong.
There would be a bit more work - was that charged for ?
Generally a concrete lintel is cheaper than the equivalent steel.
There are heavy duty versions - they are deeper - ie 130mm rather than 65mm
Presumably you can now see the lintol in the facing brickwork ? - I'd have thought he'd have used an L shape steel
Wickes give a good idea on prices - no one pays list at a builders merchant.
http://www.wickes.co.uk/Products/Building-Material...
EDIT - do you mean he fitted an extra lintol inside the old steel on the inner blockwork and then used the original planned steel on the outer ?
Still sounds like less than £100 extra, all in, to me.
Edited by Renovation on Saturday 12th December 10:09
[quote=Renovation
EDIT - do you mean he fitted an extra lintol inside the old steel on the inner blockwork and then used the original planned steel on the outer ?
Still sounds like less than £100 extra, all in, to me.
[/quote]
Yes that's exactly what the builder did.
It took him one phone call and a 15min round trip to source the lintel, it is a 60mm lintel.
The most expensive concrete lintel I could find is £27 +vat from travis Perkins !!
So I reckon £60 in materials.
He was already charging a days labour but finished the job at 2pm.
Probably doesn't help having my six month old M4 sitting on the drive.....
EDIT - do you mean he fitted an extra lintol inside the old steel on the inner blockwork and then used the original planned steel on the outer ?
Still sounds like less than £100 extra, all in, to me.
Edited by Renovation on Saturday 12th December 10:09
[/quote]
Yes that's exactly what the builder did.
It took him one phone call and a 15min round trip to source the lintel, it is a 60mm lintel.
The most expensive concrete lintel I could find is £27 +vat from travis Perkins !!
So I reckon £60 in materials.
He was already charging a days labour but finished the job at 2pm.
Probably doesn't help having my six month old M4 sitting on the drive.....
The explanation of the job can read different ways as usual.
I'm assuming the concrete lintel was put in on the internal leaf of brickwork in addition to the IG L shaped one on the outside leaf! The concrete lintel would be exposed otherwise! And you would need less bricks not more!
I agree that any cost increase should be justified, but sounds to me like more work has been done.
I'm assuming the concrete lintel was put in on the internal leaf of brickwork in addition to the IG L shaped one on the outside leaf! The concrete lintel would be exposed otherwise! And you would need less bricks not more!
I agree that any cost increase should be justified, but sounds to me like more work has been done.
If the cost of the additional works were agreed on a cost plus basis, then you would be right to question the cost of the materials if you were being overcharged.
However, if you simply agreed £180 as the total cost for the additional work, then that is the cost you should pay. It is irrelevant what the lintel cots the builder to buy. It might even be possible, that the builder had one left over from a previous job and therefore he didn't have to buy a new lintel for you anyway.
However, if you simply agreed £180 as the total cost for the additional work, then that is the cost you should pay. It is irrelevant what the lintel cots the builder to buy. It might even be possible, that the builder had one left over from a previous job and therefore he didn't have to buy a new lintel for you anyway.
Although I'm of a different trade (cars) my take on it is this...
We quote for a job, prices agreed and customer gives the go ahead, during the course of the works the job needs to change (extra/less damage/rot) so we offer an alternative option with new prices. This is the time I'm happy to discuss/negotiate our costs- if the customer doesnt want to pay any additional costs things can be decided before we progress. IMO once the customer has said yes and we have completed the job they're committed. To research and argue a price after saying yes is pretty bad form and ensures we're very unlikely to work for them again.
We quote for a job, prices agreed and customer gives the go ahead, during the course of the works the job needs to change (extra/less damage/rot) so we offer an alternative option with new prices. This is the time I'm happy to discuss/negotiate our costs- if the customer doesnt want to pay any additional costs things can be decided before we progress. IMO once the customer has said yes and we have completed the job they're committed. To research and argue a price after saying yes is pretty bad form and ensures we're very unlikely to work for them again.
Edited by TallPaul on Sunday 13th December 09:26
Clearly He's 'ripped you off'! Not an extortionate amount granted, but has been found out. There was no extra work as such as you say he finished by 2 o clock - He would've based his quote on a full days work even if he knew he could do it quicker. I'd be paying him cost price for the extra lintel and a good 'drink' in cash as a bonus!
If he expected to get repeat business and recommendations he'd be wrong and I'd be telling him that.
If he expected to get repeat business and recommendations he'd be wrong and I'd be telling him that.
MGTS said:
Perhaps ask to see an invoice for the lintel?
And Make sure you see an INVOICE not a QUOTATION (there is likely to be a massive difference)
What the lintel cost the builder is irrelevant, all that matters is what the customer agreed to pay for it. The time for negotiation is before the job's done, not after.And Make sure you see an INVOICE not a QUOTATION (there is likely to be a massive difference)
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