Council tax jump from C to D - any advice.
Discussion
Hi there.
Would just like to run this via others who could possibly give advice or have been in similar situation.
Have recently purchased a new larger property, we purchased this with a council tax band of C.
Around 15 years ago, it was extended and made into a larger property. A single attached garage is gone, it has in its place a utility room and an extra bedroom. Property is much larger because of the extension overall.
The council tax adjustments department have wrote to me and advised that the rate-able value of the house in 1991 would have been more than what they previously have valued it at, however my argument is that in 1991 , it would have been the same as the extension wasn't completed till after that date. If that makes sense.
Is this or does this seem a feasible appeal would anyone think.
I have always aspired to ,"if you don't ask you don't get."
So can anyone offer any advice please.
Many thanks for your time.
Would just like to run this via others who could possibly give advice or have been in similar situation.
Have recently purchased a new larger property, we purchased this with a council tax band of C.
Around 15 years ago, it was extended and made into a larger property. A single attached garage is gone, it has in its place a utility room and an extra bedroom. Property is much larger because of the extension overall.
The council tax adjustments department have wrote to me and advised that the rate-able value of the house in 1991 would have been more than what they previously have valued it at, however my argument is that in 1991 , it would have been the same as the extension wasn't completed till after that date. If that makes sense.
Is this or does this seem a feasible appeal would anyone think.
I have always aspired to ,"if you don't ask you don't get."
So can anyone offer any advice please.
Many thanks for your time.
I thought the bands where all guess work, I am probably wrong, but even new builds are referenced back to 1991.
So I think the council are correct in saying that if your house was transported in time back to 1991, in its current extended state, it would be worth more therefore the tax band changes.
As I said I am probably talking b
ks, so I apologise in advance if my understanding of council tax banding is incorrect and/or my explanation doesn't make much sense.
So I think the council are correct in saying that if your house was transported in time back to 1991, in its current extended state, it would be worth more therefore the tax band changes.
As I said I am probably talking b
ks, so I apologise in advance if my understanding of council tax banding is incorrect and/or my explanation doesn't make much sense. Your input is much appreciated , id just like to get thoughts on this as if you can get one up , its a triumph ha ha.
I had something similar with regards to my last property but it worked the other way around in a way.
My water bill standard charge was twice the amount of the family next door. I was single, living on my own and didnt really want a water meter. Next door had 3 kids, 2 adults and paid half what i did. Both houses very similar. Both semi detached, both had driveways but mine had an old unattached garage and possibly double glazing in 1991, im not sure. I had to get a water meter in the end, but alas didn't seem fair really.
I had something similar with regards to my last property but it worked the other way around in a way.
My water bill standard charge was twice the amount of the family next door. I was single, living on my own and didnt really want a water meter. Next door had 3 kids, 2 adults and paid half what i did. Both houses very similar. Both semi detached, both had driveways but mine had an old unattached garage and possibly double glazing in 1991, im not sure. I had to get a water meter in the end, but alas didn't seem fair really.
It seems a simple enough to appeal the banding, so just start this process:
https://www.gov.uk/council-tax-appeals/challenge-y...
https://www.gov.uk/council-tax-appeals/challenge-y...
Once a property is assessed it isn't revalued until it changes hands. Then any extensions etc are taken into account and a regrading will take place if deemed appropriate. They estimate its banding, in its new form, back to 91.
We were caught when we moved a few years ago. Our CT almost doubled because, since the house was assessed under the previous ownership, it had been very significantly extended. We weren't too bothered, it was still less than our previous house in the SE, even though a lot bigger. We tried every argument including criticising the flawed system but got nowhere.
Councils monitor house sales, check for any planning applications since the last change of owner and then reassess if there's been any.
We were caught when we moved a few years ago. Our CT almost doubled because, since the house was assessed under the previous ownership, it had been very significantly extended. We weren't too bothered, it was still less than our previous house in the SE, even though a lot bigger. We tried every argument including criticising the flawed system but got nowhere.
Councils monitor house sales, check for any planning applications since the last change of owner and then reassess if there's been any.
colinevan said:
Have recently purchased a new larger property, we purchased this with a council tax band of C.
Around 15 years ago, it was extended and made into a larger property.
So a search on the council tax for the place would have shown the Improvement Index flag against it. When you extend a property, the CT isn't re-assessed until the next change of CT payer. The flag shows that's waiting.Around 15 years ago, it was extended and made into a larger property.
colinevan said:
A single attached garage is gone, it has in its place a utility room and an extra bedroom. Property is much larger because of the extension overall.
The council tax adjustments department have wrote to me and advised that the rate-able value of the house in 1991 would have been more than what they previously have valued it at, however my argument is that in 1991 , it would have been the same as the extension wasn't completed till after that date. If that makes sense.
It doesn't work like that. The VOA (independent of the council) look at the house as it sits now, and work the 1991 value of THAT out. That's then used for the new band.The council tax adjustments department have wrote to me and advised that the rate-able value of the house in 1991 would have been more than what they previously have valued it at, however my argument is that in 1991 , it would have been the same as the extension wasn't completed till after that date. If that makes sense.
You can appeal it - you'll have had the paperwork. They'll either accept your argument and it'll stay in the old band, or tell you that they consider it is in the higher - and they'll show you their working with comparable properties.
From this bit...
colinevan said:
A single attached garage is gone, it has in its place a utility room and an extra bedroom. Property is much larger because of the extension overall.
...I'd guess that the new band is right.Do not base your appeal on any nonsense like the extension not being there in 1991.
You need to find properties that are very comparable to yours locally, and provide evidence of what they sold for in 1991. This should, if you have any case at all, prove that houses that were similar to your house as it stands now in 1991 were selling for values that put them in a band C and not a band D.
If your research shows that houses of similar size and quality to yours (taking into account all factors such as location, local amenities etc.) were selling for band D prices in 1991 then I'm afraid you probably have no case at all.
The previous owner wouldn't have had to pay increased rates because these rate increases resulting from extensions etc. don't take effect until the house changes hands.
I won a CT appeal to get my flat lowered from D to C. The basis was that when the block had been massively refurbished in 2001 it was re-rated from a B to a D, this was because they were selling for very inflated sums in 2002, so the VOA worked out this new 2002 value back to 1991 and plonked it in a band D.
Fast forward to 2015 and I was able to show that these massive sales prices in 2002 were a blip, and that since then the block has consistently sold for less than the price of some nearby band C flats (despite mine now being a D). The band C block even has a swimming pool, but somehow were paying less than me.
After much going back and forth, and scheduling a tribunal, eventually the VOA saw sense and re-rated all of the 2 bed flats in my block
You need to find properties that are very comparable to yours locally, and provide evidence of what they sold for in 1991. This should, if you have any case at all, prove that houses that were similar to your house as it stands now in 1991 were selling for values that put them in a band C and not a band D.
If your research shows that houses of similar size and quality to yours (taking into account all factors such as location, local amenities etc.) were selling for band D prices in 1991 then I'm afraid you probably have no case at all.
The previous owner wouldn't have had to pay increased rates because these rate increases resulting from extensions etc. don't take effect until the house changes hands.
I won a CT appeal to get my flat lowered from D to C. The basis was that when the block had been massively refurbished in 2001 it was re-rated from a B to a D, this was because they were selling for very inflated sums in 2002, so the VOA worked out this new 2002 value back to 1991 and plonked it in a band D.
Fast forward to 2015 and I was able to show that these massive sales prices in 2002 were a blip, and that since then the block has consistently sold for less than the price of some nearby band C flats (despite mine now being a D). The band C block even has a swimming pool, but somehow were paying less than me.
After much going back and forth, and scheduling a tribunal, eventually the VOA saw sense and re-rated all of the 2 bed flats in my block
Same thing happened to us a few years back. They apparently review a house whenever it is purchased. Ours has been extended 3 times over the past 20 years or so.
Bloke from the council made an appointment and then turned up several hours earlier when we weren't in. He phoned, I told him to come back later as planned and he just then did an 'appraisal' based on me telling him how many rooms we had and him looking at the house from the kerb. Went up a band and we were told it was pointless to appeal.
To be honest, it was fair enough as the extensions had doubled the size of the house - adding a garage, reception room, utility room, dressing room, bedroom and bathroom. Then again, half of that had been done before the previous owners bought it. Guess we were just unlucky to cop the lot.
Bloke from the council made an appointment and then turned up several hours earlier when we weren't in. He phoned, I told him to come back later as planned and he just then did an 'appraisal' based on me telling him how many rooms we had and him looking at the house from the kerb. Went up a band and we were told it was pointless to appeal.
To be honest, it was fair enough as the extensions had doubled the size of the house - adding a garage, reception room, utility room, dressing room, bedroom and bathroom. Then again, half of that had been done before the previous owners bought it. Guess we were just unlucky to cop the lot.
colinevan said:
my argument is that in 1991 , it would have been the same as the extension wasn't completed till after that date. If that makes sense.
My house was built in 2009, as it didn't exist should I have paid zero tax? Not being arsy but the whole system is bullst as you can see! The valuations are pure guess work. By all means appeal, it costs nothing to do, but don't use that argument! I did this when I found other houses IDENTICAL to ours were in a lower band and won However I doubt very much you will win, unless as mentioned there are houses of similar size in the lower band already. ETA, just checked ours & sure enough it has the improvement flag next to it :-
"Improvement indicator - this shows that improvements have been made to the property that might result in the Council Tax band changing if a “relevant transaction” takes place, for example, if the property is sold."
Edited by Dave_ST220 on Thursday 25th February 13:33
speedyman said:
Just checked my house which I purchased new in 1991 its in band E and it has an improvement indicator against it. I have not had an extenstion built nor have I had any work done that required planning consent, so what else is classed as an improvement?
No idea. But, when it comes to a change of CT payer, they shouldn't have any problem retaining that banding.colinevan said:
Thanks.
I shall appeal, but am realistically ready for the " computer says no" approach.
Us mere mortals paying all what we can , and then some more in this case to keep the councils afloat, sigh !
what 'computer says no ' would that be I shall appeal, but am realistically ready for the " computer says no" approach.
Us mere mortals paying all what we can , and then some more in this case to keep the councils afloat, sigh !
the property is a Band D property, your misapprehension / deliberately mis understanding of the relevance of 1991 is the cause of your dismay.
Dave_ST220 said:
ETA, just checked ours & sure enough it has the improvement flag next to it :-
"Improvement indicator - this shows that improvements have been made to the property that might result in the Council Tax band changing if a “relevant transaction” takes place, for example, if the property is sold."
Anyone know if the flag stays there for ever?"Improvement indicator - this shows that improvements have been made to the property that might result in the Council Tax band changing if a “relevant transaction” takes place, for example, if the property is sold."
Just checked our road and half the properties have improvement flags! I know two of them changed hands, in one case 10yrs ago, and haven't had anything done since then.
colinevan said:
.
I had something similar with regards to my last property but it worked the other way around in a way.
My water bill standard charge was twice the amount of the family next door. I was single, living on my own and didnt really want a water meter. Next door had 3 kids, 2 adults and paid half what i did. Both houses very similar. Both semi detached, both had driveways but mine had an old unattached garage and possibly double glazing in 1991, im not sure. I had to get a water meter in the end, but alas didn't seem fair really.
That's based on rateable value, a figure which can seem almost random.I had something similar with regards to my last property but it worked the other way around in a way.
My water bill standard charge was twice the amount of the family next door. I was single, living on my own and didnt really want a water meter. Next door had 3 kids, 2 adults and paid half what i did. Both houses very similar. Both semi detached, both had driveways but mine had an old unattached garage and possibly double glazing in 1991, im not sure. I had to get a water meter in the end, but alas didn't seem fair really.
Council tax is based on the property value in 1991.
If the house was in the NW and you were using United Utilities then unless the property had a weirdly low RV and you used a huge amount of water it's generally way cheaper to have a water meter. Our bills halved.
Sheepshanks said:
Anyone know if the flag stays there for ever?
Definitely not. This place had an II on it when we bought it - once the band was changed (it'd sold in 1991 for just under the upper threshold of the band it was in - and the trigger for the flag was a bloody great big two-storey extension that added maybe two-thirds to the floor area), the flag has gone away.OP.
Council Tax/Business Rates are a complex area, but essentially the banding of the property is of the property in it's current physical situation, but values as at 1 April 1991, so yes they are right.
No reason not to try an appeal, but they are increasingly stubborn, and given market values are so historic very hard to prove.
Council Tax/Business Rates are a complex area, but essentially the banding of the property is of the property in it's current physical situation, but values as at 1 April 1991, so yes they are right.
No reason not to try an appeal, but they are increasingly stubborn, and given market values are so historic very hard to prove.
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