Moving for better prospects?
Discussion
Morning all.
Friendly debate over breakfast with the wife this morning. Note - this is not asking for someone to make a decision, just for interest!
Situation:
- 2 x adults both mid-30s, 1 x 17 year-old child, 1 x primary school-age child.
- Live in a deprived city in the UK - e.g. average gross household income is £27.6k, 11% households have <£10k income.
- Both adults in full time employment with gross HH income of c.£45k per annum.
- Mortgaged property, currently owe £90k-ish. No other debts, reasonable savings.
- Immediate family within 20 minutes travel distance.
Debate:
- area we live in has few major employers, and limited prospects as larger employers tend to be regional offices;
- very little in the way of arts, culture, shopping etc and almost no nightlife to speak of - all shops and cafes closed by 5:30pm;
- Schools are a big mixture of below-average to average, with only faith schools rated excellent, and they tend to be vastly oversubscribed;
- very cheap cost of living, all things considered - 2 bed Semi for £120k, 4 bed detached for <£210k in nice condition in reasonably-safe areas;
- almost no child-care owing to relatives being close by.
I'm starting from the opinion that it is better to move to an area with longer-term prospects for both us and the children, with more employers etc but also arts, theatre, culture, nightlife. Wife is of the opinion that it is better to live like a king in a poor area than like a pauper in a rich area.
What would you do? (note: this is just for discussion, I know the sensible thing is to work out differences in cost-of-living etc!)
Friendly debate over breakfast with the wife this morning. Note - this is not asking for someone to make a decision, just for interest!
Situation:
- 2 x adults both mid-30s, 1 x 17 year-old child, 1 x primary school-age child.
- Live in a deprived city in the UK - e.g. average gross household income is £27.6k, 11% households have <£10k income.
- Both adults in full time employment with gross HH income of c.£45k per annum.
- Mortgaged property, currently owe £90k-ish. No other debts, reasonable savings.
- Immediate family within 20 minutes travel distance.
Debate:
- area we live in has few major employers, and limited prospects as larger employers tend to be regional offices;
- very little in the way of arts, culture, shopping etc and almost no nightlife to speak of - all shops and cafes closed by 5:30pm;
- Schools are a big mixture of below-average to average, with only faith schools rated excellent, and they tend to be vastly oversubscribed;
- very cheap cost of living, all things considered - 2 bed Semi for £120k, 4 bed detached for <£210k in nice condition in reasonably-safe areas;
- almost no child-care owing to relatives being close by.
I'm starting from the opinion that it is better to move to an area with longer-term prospects for both us and the children, with more employers etc but also arts, theatre, culture, nightlife. Wife is of the opinion that it is better to live like a king in a poor area than like a pauper in a rich area.
What would you do? (note: this is just for discussion, I know the sensible thing is to work out differences in cost-of-living etc!)
w00tman said:
Wife is of the opinion that it is better to live like a king in a poor area than like a pauper in a rich area.
You can make lots of changes to your personal lives to lift yourself above pauper status.There are limited things you can do to lift an entire area by yourself.
You may be able to travel to other areas for your arts fixes, but you'l always be coming back home to a hole of an area.
Does that help ?
Antony Moxey said:
In what way does your wife believe you are living like kings?
It was an exaggeration for the purposes of the debate - don't read too much in to it 
It was more:
- We have a house that is cheap to run and own, in good condition, in a safe area with good neighbours;
- We have an old but fun car;
- We save c. 50% of our net pay each month (well we actually overpay the mortgage at this point, but obviously discretional);
- our commutes to work are both less than 10 minutes by cars;
- We are in good health and our remaining parents are likewise;
- We have a reasonably good network of friends (moreso on her side).
I do not own a Veyron or a chalet in France, don't get me wrong.
I'm in a similar position. The BBC released an article the other day on average incomes by town. I live in Doncaster the 4th lowest in the country and the town has all the problems which go along with that.
The upside is I own my own decent newish house with garden, garage, off-street parking all with a 5 figure mortgage I took out this year. I actually laugh inside when I see millennials/gen x whining about never being able to afford a house. My mate in a similar position has just taken 5 months off work because he fancied it and it's so cheap to live up north. That said I'm not oblivious to the fact that it would be lovely to live in Chipping Norton but it's not particularly realistic.
I'm leaning towards what I've got over being able to walk to the Tate Modern.
The upside is I own my own decent newish house with garden, garage, off-street parking all with a 5 figure mortgage I took out this year. I actually laugh inside when I see millennials/gen x whining about never being able to afford a house. My mate in a similar position has just taken 5 months off work because he fancied it and it's so cheap to live up north. That said I'm not oblivious to the fact that it would be lovely to live in Chipping Norton but it's not particularly realistic.
I'm leaning towards what I've got over being able to walk to the Tate Modern.
w00tman said:
It was more:
- We have a house that is cheap to run and own, in good condition, in a safe area with good neighbours;
- We have an old but fun car;
- We save c. 50% of our net pay each month (well we actually overpay the mortgage at this point, but obviously discretional);
- our commutes to work are both less than 10 minutes by cars;
- We are in good health and our remaining parents are likewise;
- We have a reasonably good network of friends (moreso on her side).
Your situation would be the utter envy of millions of Londoners and people elsewhere. You may end up working your nads off for two decades just so you can return to a situation like that. - We have a house that is cheap to run and own, in good condition, in a safe area with good neighbours;
- We have an old but fun car;
- We save c. 50% of our net pay each month (well we actually overpay the mortgage at this point, but obviously discretional);
- our commutes to work are both less than 10 minutes by cars;
- We are in good health and our remaining parents are likewise;
- We have a reasonably good network of friends (moreso on her side).
If the jobs were secure and life is good as is I'd stay put and maybe do something on the side that might grow. No way would I intentionally throw myself into a poverty stricken grind for some theoretical success that may never arrive and may never bring any more joy.
I have lived in the north and the south. Disposable income tends to vary a little but on the whole living costs scale with increased / decreased income.
Unless you can keep your income the same in LCOL area as HCOL area then you are quids in.
But IMHO that does not happen all that often. Also worth bearing in mind it can take <10 years for an area to change from LCOL to HCOL... I have seen this happen where people get priced out of the area when they want to move up the ladder.
When I last moved back up from the south to the north when I was working for a blue chip firm they quickly re-negotiated my package down by £9k..
HTH.
Unless you can keep your income the same in LCOL area as HCOL area then you are quids in.
But IMHO that does not happen all that often. Also worth bearing in mind it can take <10 years for an area to change from LCOL to HCOL... I have seen this happen where people get priced out of the area when they want to move up the ladder.
When I last moved back up from the south to the north when I was working for a blue chip firm they quickly re-negotiated my package down by £9k..
HTH.
Btw OP, a more general thought, your Missus doesn't want to move. You realise that if you prevail and persuade her, and if the move is anything other than a brilliant change your life will be made a misery for decades. Worth the risk?
Edited to add also kids don't transplant easily, your 17 y'o will hate you because they'll lose all of their mates, and your primary age kid will have a huge disruption socially at a key development stage.
Edited to add also kids don't transplant easily, your 17 y'o will hate you because they'll lose all of their mates, and your primary age kid will have a huge disruption socially at a key development stage.
Edited by Timmy40 on Thursday 3rd May 12:52
I'd be tempted to stay put personally, unless moving somehow guarantees increased net household income (i.e. you've already bagged a secure higher paying job). Otherwise, it makes fook all difference if there's nice bars and galleries to use if you can't afford the time or expense to enjoy them.
Moving will give your children (and you) richer experiences but probably less material possessions.
Moving will increase your debt burden (mortgage), so put more pressure on you both to continue working for longer.
...but will give you a nicer environment when you finally do finish work.
Moving will increase your debt burden (mortgage), so put more pressure on you both to continue working for longer.
...but will give you a nicer environment when you finally do finish work.
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