Buying house - would you lie?
Discussion
I've found a repossessed house for sale that is pretty much my ideal house.
Problem is, they will obviously only entertain bids from those who are immediately proceedable.
Would you lie to get your foot in the door?
My thinking: Submit strong offer. Just say i'm chain free, with evidence of a mortgage in principal letter, get some surveys done, then stall for as long as possible while I progress my sale.
Then at the 11th hour I can just drop in 'Sorry, change of circumstance, decided to part fund from sale of my current house, hope you understand. Still looking to exchange ASAP.'
Upside: Only possible way I might get this house, fairly good chance of all eventually falling into place.
Downsides: Feel guilty, may lose money spent on surveys etc, selling EA likely to blacklist me.
I'm sure I can sell my current place & have room to reduce it, it's just unfortunate the timelines haven't quite met up.
If it all goes wrong i'll only be screwing up a banks cashflow rather than an innocent vendor who has onward plans so i've pretty much morally justified it to myself as ok.
What would PH do? I've only ever been 100% truthful in past purchases, but I get the feeling this has always put me on the back foot.
Problem is, they will obviously only entertain bids from those who are immediately proceedable.
Would you lie to get your foot in the door?
My thinking: Submit strong offer. Just say i'm chain free, with evidence of a mortgage in principal letter, get some surveys done, then stall for as long as possible while I progress my sale.
Then at the 11th hour I can just drop in 'Sorry, change of circumstance, decided to part fund from sale of my current house, hope you understand. Still looking to exchange ASAP.'
Upside: Only possible way I might get this house, fairly good chance of all eventually falling into place.
Downsides: Feel guilty, may lose money spent on surveys etc, selling EA likely to blacklist me.
I'm sure I can sell my current place & have room to reduce it, it's just unfortunate the timelines haven't quite met up.
If it all goes wrong i'll only be screwing up a banks cashflow rather than an innocent vendor who has onward plans so i've pretty much morally justified it to myself as ok.
What would PH do? I've only ever been 100% truthful in past purchases, but I get the feeling this has always put me on the back foot.
They will want a screenshot that you have the funds to proceed, or at least should do
Its easy to photoshop if you want
Millions have done what you have suggested, then sales fell through/got delayed so EAs are more on the ball now, as the seller will blame the EA when it fcks up
For my last purchase EA wanted a screenshot that We had the deposit and all finalized paperwork from mortgage company, otherwise there was no accepting of offer
A decent vendor should rumble you pretty quick , not all are decent though
=
Its easy to photoshop if you want
Millions have done what you have suggested, then sales fell through/got delayed so EAs are more on the ball now, as the seller will blame the EA when it fcks up
For my last purchase EA wanted a screenshot that We had the deposit and all finalized paperwork from mortgage company, otherwise there was no accepting of offer
A decent vendor should rumble you pretty quick , not all are decent though
=
You can delay the sale as long as you want but the bank wont let you.
The agent can't take the property ''Off the market'' until its exchanged and your offer is publicly displayed until then.
OK, the agent may not want to ''sell it again'' especially in the early stages but if you mess them about they will.
They also have to give weekly updates on the property, any more viewings etc even when its SSTC.
They will end of just pulling it from you if you mess you about. Bank don't care who buys it they just want the most money quick.
The agent can't take the property ''Off the market'' until its exchanged and your offer is publicly displayed until then.
OK, the agent may not want to ''sell it again'' especially in the early stages but if you mess them about they will.
They also have to give weekly updates on the property, any more viewings etc even when its SSTC.
They will end of just pulling it from you if you mess you about. Bank don't care who buys it they just want the most money quick.
We had this dilemma last year.
1/ Hired the same EA to sell our house as was already selling the property we wanted to buy. Doubling their incentive to sell to us.
2/ Priced to sell our house, about 5K under market.
3/ EA were instructed to find us a buyer without a chain,
3/ Put in a strong offer on the house we wanted. Over the asking price, on the provisio that it comes off the market immediately. With instructions that the EA convey the message that we're priced to sell and motivated to go.
We had a sale agreed within a week of instructing the agent and before the probate seller had a chance to respond to our offer.
1/ Hired the same EA to sell our house as was already selling the property we wanted to buy. Doubling their incentive to sell to us.
2/ Priced to sell our house, about 5K under market.
3/ EA were instructed to find us a buyer without a chain,
3/ Put in a strong offer on the house we wanted. Over the asking price, on the provisio that it comes off the market immediately. With instructions that the EA convey the message that we're priced to sell and motivated to go.
We had a sale agreed within a week of instructing the agent and before the probate seller had a chance to respond to our offer.
They like to complete within 28 days and the property stays on the market until completion. The 28 days can be extended if you are far enough along the process. I got gazumped this way buying with a fresh mortgage.
If the house has been on the market a while they may go for it. If its freah to market they will reject.
If the house has been on the market a while they may go for it. If its freah to market they will reject.
DaveCWK said:
Would you lie to get your foot in the door?
No-ish, but I would make an offer at this point, you need to stay in the game.If it is the perfect house, I would be less concerned about the proposed lie and more concerned that you might miss out on the house. You have a few days to come up with a plan that allows you to get the house. The plan probably involves you actually being chain free for the purposes of the new purchase.
We were in a similar-ish situation when our current house came up for sale 18 months ago. We were in a slightly different situation in that our old house was already on a BTL mortgage even though we were living in it (long story) and this enabled us to present our position as chain free on the new one getting a mortgage for the new place from the only bank that would let us (Santander).
We ended up completing on the new place and then selling the old place 2 months later breaking the chain in both cases. We did briefly have 2 massive mortgages and had to pay the 2nd home stamp duty but then got that back once we sold the old place. Short term it was a little hairy but now we have completed our last ever house purchase
Is there anyway you can get a mortgage on the new place without needing to sell the old place (get a consent to let on the existing mortgage on the current place?). Can you get the deposit/extra stamp cost out of the current place or from somewhere else even temporarily?
DaveCWK said:
My thinking: Submit strong offer. Just say i'm chain free, with evidence of a mortgage in principal letter, get some surveys done, then stall for as long as possible while I progress my sale.
Then at the 11th hour I can just drop in 'Sorry, change of circumstance, decided to part fund from sale of my current house, hope you understand. Still looking to exchange ASAP.'
As someone who is currently selling a house, at the top of the chain (albeit only a 3 house one) i'm pretty sure my buyers original buyer tried this one. He nearly caused the whole thing to collapse. I tried to be accommodating and they were selling a leasehold flat & i'm pretty sure they got greedy and went for the strong offer rather than the one able to proceed quickly.Then at the 11th hour I can just drop in 'Sorry, change of circumstance, decided to part fund from sale of my current house, hope you understand. Still looking to exchange ASAP.'
Then the stalling started. Put it this way, we're now at 19 weeks, with a new buyer at the bottom. I had to put my house back on the market to force them to make a decision.
I would say don't do it personally - when they find out, and they probably will, you will potentially piss them off enough to sell to someone else anyway.
20 years ago we couldn't get anywhere near the repo houses - the Estate Agents and their mates were 'getting first dibs', as we found out when we queried the statement on one house for sale "this property has, or may have a connection with an employee" or words to that effect.
We then used to go into Estate Agents and ask for the houses on the 'other coloured paper'
Morally If you do as planned you are bringing yourself down to their level - but 'he who plays the game may end up winning'. IMHO ea's and banks are the establishments most likely to screw the customer, so do it!
When looking (before the 'net ) we used to got in ea's every weekend to be asked "aren't you on our mailing list ?, we send them all out.... oh I didn't get to your name in my alphabetic list", so the next agent I went to I 'became' Mr Abbott so that we were sent everything. It worked. The truth was then revealed when necessary
We then used to go into Estate Agents and ask for the houses on the 'other coloured paper'
Morally If you do as planned you are bringing yourself down to their level - but 'he who plays the game may end up winning'. IMHO ea's and banks are the establishments most likely to screw the customer, so do it!
When looking (before the 'net ) we used to got in ea's every weekend to be asked "aren't you on our mailing list ?, we send them all out.... oh I didn't get to your name in my alphabetic list", so the next agent I went to I 'became' Mr Abbott so that we were sent everything. It worked. The truth was then revealed when necessary
I wouldn't rate your chances of getting away with it OP - I've just bought a repo and I had to provide proof of available funds before the EA would even forward my offer. I then had 14 days to complete during which the house was still advertised with 'we've received an offer of £xxx ' which is worrying when you've had to instruct a solicitor.
It won’t work. I’ve bought a number of repos and it can be nail biting stuff
The house will be on the market until you exchange. As mentioned, you will need to submit proof of funds and an AIP which I know is worth nothing but they are trying to weed out quickly those who can’t complete. They will ask for exchange in 28 days or 14 days for cash purchases
The EA will push you at regular intervals to make sure things are moving forward. They will be looking for a mortgage offer first and then your legals being complete so you can exchange. Everyone in the process needs to be geared up to move quickly - you, mortgage company, valuer, solicitor etc.
In the back of your mind is always if things don’t move quickly, I might be outbid and loose money I’ve already laid out. They won’t drop you for a small amount, especially if you are well advanced but the risk is there all the same
If this is your dream house then you need to make yourself chain free to have a chance. You should get it below market value though.
Best of luck
The house will be on the market until you exchange. As mentioned, you will need to submit proof of funds and an AIP which I know is worth nothing but they are trying to weed out quickly those who can’t complete. They will ask for exchange in 28 days or 14 days for cash purchases
The EA will push you at regular intervals to make sure things are moving forward. They will be looking for a mortgage offer first and then your legals being complete so you can exchange. Everyone in the process needs to be geared up to move quickly - you, mortgage company, valuer, solicitor etc.
In the back of your mind is always if things don’t move quickly, I might be outbid and loose money I’ve already laid out. They won’t drop you for a small amount, especially if you are well advanced but the risk is there all the same
If this is your dream house then you need to make yourself chain free to have a chance. You should get it below market value though.
Best of luck
I wouldn't hesitate to lie if you really want it OP. It's often not possible to have a level playing field as a buyer if you aren't willing to bend the truth.
I have been involved with a number of repo's and auction houses and there isn't a single one I can recall where someone hasn't tried it on. Last one we bought required all the normal AIP / Proof of funds and completion was required in 28 days. We dragged it out 2 months and it is likely to complete December in a little over another month.
Having said that OP, I wouldn't bother unless you have a plan B in place for some bridging finance or something. There would be little or no chance of you being able to move at anything other than glacial pace unless you were willing to take a haircut on your place.
I have been involved with a number of repo's and auction houses and there isn't a single one I can recall where someone hasn't tried it on. Last one we bought required all the normal AIP / Proof of funds and completion was required in 28 days. We dragged it out 2 months and it is likely to complete December in a little over another month.
Having said that OP, I wouldn't bother unless you have a plan B in place for some bridging finance or something. There would be little or no chance of you being able to move at anything other than glacial pace unless you were willing to take a haircut on your place.
We always want proof of funds, an agreement in principle means nothing and will be ignored, if you are supremely sure your house will sell quick and its your dream house then bridge fund it (1% per month) . Failing that you may get lucky and be dealing with a crap agent, Remember the mortgage valuer will contact the agent not you to arrange access so the agent will know
dogz said:
It won’t work. I’ve bought a number of repos and it can be nail biting stuff
The house will be on the market until you exchange. As mentioned, you will need to submit proof of funds and an AIP which I know is worth nothing but they are trying to weed out quickly those who can’t complete. They will ask for exchange in 28 days or 14 days for cash purchases
Based on the above, it doesn't sound like there is any point getting an offer accepted if you can't proceed. The house will remain on the market either way.The house will be on the market until you exchange. As mentioned, you will need to submit proof of funds and an AIP which I know is worth nothing but they are trying to weed out quickly those who can’t complete. They will ask for exchange in 28 days or 14 days for cash purchases
Your best bet might just to be honest with the EA and explain you really want the house, are prepared to pay top whack for it, but need to sell your house first. But you'll put it on (with them) for a really competitive price so it shfts quickly.
Agreeing with giving the agent "double bubble" by marketing your house with them.
Also see if it's worth asking them for mortgage advice, they'll either have someone in house( more fees and commission for the EA) or they'll farm out to a local company ( with a kickback to the EA naturally)
Not only will they know the exact situation of your sale and financing - which will reassure them, but the extra cash they make out of it means there's more incentive for them to recommend you to the seller.
Also see if it's worth asking them for mortgage advice, they'll either have someone in house( more fees and commission for the EA) or they'll farm out to a local company ( with a kickback to the EA naturally)
Not only will they know the exact situation of your sale and financing - which will reassure them, but the extra cash they make out of it means there's more incentive for them to recommend you to the seller.
We bought a house last year (probate) that had the exact activity you describe twice.
2x strong offers from "proceedable" buyers that turned out to be a bit less proceedable due to needing to sell rather than their initial suggestion of being ready to go!
Sellers decided, in the end to sell to us, for substantially less than the two previous offers. We were first time buyers with a mortgage in place moving from a rental. Just a shame it took 3 months from our offer being put forward for it to be accepted but it was worth it in the end - we have a lovely house now!
2x strong offers from "proceedable" buyers that turned out to be a bit less proceedable due to needing to sell rather than their initial suggestion of being ready to go!
Sellers decided, in the end to sell to us, for substantially less than the two previous offers. We were first time buyers with a mortgage in place moving from a rental. Just a shame it took 3 months from our offer being put forward for it to be accepted but it was worth it in the end - we have a lovely house now!
I think people here are forgetting this is a business selling a house on behalf of a bank or other entity and it’s just a commercial transaction
The agent has no sway in the decision making process. They just present the facts to the corporate seller. Can the buyer proceed immediately, are funds available, does it look like the buyer can get a mortgage if required etc. The corporate seller will have a minimum price they will sell the house for which will reduce over time dependant on interest in the property, number of offers, what other similar ones have sold for etc
They will not accept your offer if you cannot satisfy the 3 criteria above as you cannot proceed and if it’s not above the minimum value set. Things can and do slip, so whilst the 28 day exchange is an aspiration it’s not set in stone. To be clear though, if you don’t show progress towards hitting that date as close as is reasonably possible you will be dropped if a similar offer comes in. To buy a repo or at auction you need to be able to proceed immediately to think otherwise is naive
As has been mention you could bridge but costs are high to do so and unless its an absolute steal or your dream house with few others similar, I’d avoid this route at all costs
The agent has no sway in the decision making process. They just present the facts to the corporate seller. Can the buyer proceed immediately, are funds available, does it look like the buyer can get a mortgage if required etc. The corporate seller will have a minimum price they will sell the house for which will reduce over time dependant on interest in the property, number of offers, what other similar ones have sold for etc
They will not accept your offer if you cannot satisfy the 3 criteria above as you cannot proceed and if it’s not above the minimum value set. Things can and do slip, so whilst the 28 day exchange is an aspiration it’s not set in stone. To be clear though, if you don’t show progress towards hitting that date as close as is reasonably possible you will be dropped if a similar offer comes in. To buy a repo or at auction you need to be able to proceed immediately to think otherwise is naive
As has been mention you could bridge but costs are high to do so and unless its an absolute steal or your dream house with few others similar, I’d avoid this route at all costs
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