Landlord reference checks - intrusive
Discussion
Does it bug anyone else how much information you have to provide?
Salary, level of anticipated bonus, other sources of income, employment status, copy of employment contract, bank details, five years address history, previous landlords details, employers details, national insurance number, evidence of previous rental payments (what do they even want here - bank statements?), bla bla various other things.
I understand that some of it is needed for a credit check, but some of it isn't. The thing that annoys me the most is there is no way of saying no. Surely a reference from my employer and a reference from a previous landlord should be more than sufficient?!
Salary, level of anticipated bonus, other sources of income, employment status, copy of employment contract, bank details, five years address history, previous landlords details, employers details, national insurance number, evidence of previous rental payments (what do they even want here - bank statements?), bla bla various other things.
I understand that some of it is needed for a credit check, but some of it isn't. The thing that annoys me the most is there is no way of saying no. Surely a reference from my employer and a reference from a previous landlord should be more than sufficient?!
Integroo said:
Does it bug anyone else how much information you have to provide?
Salary, level of anticipated bonus, other sources of income, employment status, copy of employment contract, bank details, five years address history, previous landlords details, employers details, national insurance number, evidence of previous rental payments (what do they even want here - bank statements?), bla bla various other things.
I understand that some of it is needed for a credit check, but some of it isn't. The thing that annoys me the most is there is no way of saying no. Surely a reference from my employer and a reference from a previous landlord should be more than sufficient?!
A copy of contract and proof of rent payments is a bit excessive - that's why they ask for a contact at your employer and your current landlord/letting agency to verify your stated earnings and your ability to pay the rent. Perhaps the area or that specific agent has been caught out by fraudulent or less than honest references leading to aborted tenancies caused by late/non payers, so concrete proof of money appearing then disappearing to pay the rent is required.Salary, level of anticipated bonus, other sources of income, employment status, copy of employment contract, bank details, five years address history, previous landlords details, employers details, national insurance number, evidence of previous rental payments (what do they even want here - bank statements?), bla bla various other things.
I understand that some of it is needed for a credit check, but some of it isn't. The thing that annoys me the most is there is no way of saying no. Surely a reference from my employer and a reference from a previous landlord should be more than sufficient?!
All the other guff about anticipated bonuses shouldn't be their concern - it is your guaranteed base earnings that should be used to assess your application. I can't and won't speculate on your particular situation, but in general if a tenancy application relies on a minimum amount of bonus above standard salary to make the minimum rent/income ratio adequate then the agency should not continue the application. That's the only way I could see employment bonuses becoming their concern.
With this intense level of scrutiny, I am curious to know how high the 'admin and inventory fees' are likely to be!
But yes, in general the info required is a ballache, especially when the agency won't make the leap into the 21st century and move away from handwritten forms. Ten years ago it wasn't nearly as invasive.
Something else I loathed about the whole process is that the agent may sell your details to utility brokers. I was pestered by calls from such places offering to set me up with broadband and TV services, and I was forced to start off using a specific energy provider then I had to go through the process of cancelling the account to switch to a better one. Kickbacks galore for letting agencies.
Edited by Eng274 on Tuesday 2nd April 11:02
Edited by Eng274 on Tuesday 2nd April 11:05
Eng274 said:
A copy of contract and proof of rent payments is a bit excessive - that's why they ask for a contact at your employer and your current landlord/letting agency to verify your stated earnings and your ability to pay the rent. Perhaps the area or that specific agent has been caught out by fraudulent or less than honest references leading to aborted tenancies caused by late/non payers, so concrete proof of money appearing then disappearing to pay the rent is required.
All the other guff about anticipated bonuses shouldn't be their concern - it is your guaranteed base earnings that should be used to assess your application. I can't and won't speculate on your particular situation, but in general if a tenancy application relies on a minimum amount of bonus above standard salary to make the minimum rent/income ratio adequate then the agency should not continue the application. That's the only way I could see employment bonuses becoming their concern.
With this intense level of scrutiny, I am curious to know how high the 'admin and inventory fees' are likely to be!
But yes, in general the info required is a ballache, especially when the agency won't make the leap into the 21st century and use online forms. Ten years ago it wasn't nearly as invasive.
It seems to be a standard portal and is an online form which makes it easier, but it is an utter pain and I need to give more personal detail to some dodgy estate agent than I frankly want to. Fees are apparently £250, which moving from Scotland where fees are unlawful stings a bit, though the development over the road we also looked at the agent wanted £420! All the other guff about anticipated bonuses shouldn't be their concern - it is your guaranteed base earnings that should be used to assess your application. I can't and won't speculate on your particular situation, but in general if a tenancy application relies on a minimum amount of bonus above standard salary to make the minimum rent/income ratio adequate then the agency should not continue the application. That's the only way I could see employment bonuses becoming their concern.
With this intense level of scrutiny, I am curious to know how high the 'admin and inventory fees' are likely to be!
But yes, in general the info required is a ballache, especially when the agency won't make the leap into the 21st century and use online forms. Ten years ago it wasn't nearly as invasive.
Edited by Eng274 on Tuesday 2nd April 11:02
Integroo said:
It seems to be a standard portal and is an online form which makes it easier, but it is an utter pain and I need to give more personal detail to some dodgy estate agent than I frankly want to. Fees are apparently £250, which moving from Scotland where fees are unlawful stings a bit, though the development over the road we also looked at the agent wanted £420!
I feel your pain. I moved from Scotland to England five years ago, moving from zero fees to "£80 inventory fee" and "£150 admin fee" was a proper culture shock.Maybe I was just lucky back home, but the traditional 'short assured' tenancy of 6 months then rolling monthly arrangement is not the default in England. Paying a £120 renewal fee every 6 months was also a piss take, until I insisted they inserted the rolling monthly contract clause after 6 months. The landlord didn't seem to care, but the agency clearly did, who make an insane profit on typing a new date and reprinting a few sheets of A4.
Edited by Eng274 on Tuesday 2nd April 11:13
Edited by Eng274 on Tuesday 2nd April 11:14
Sounds annoying, on the flip side, as a landlord myself I'd rather know up front if someone has poor credit, missed payments on rent before, will struggle for money if their bonus doesn't come in etc etc. Not saying it'd be a deal breaker if something flagged up, but it'd make me ask questions. 5 years back tenants that are still in a house I let applied, CCJ cropped up from 2 years back and 1 of them had just started a new job. Prompted me to ring them, ask some further questions which they were entirely honest about and put my mind at rest. 5 years in and they've been the best tenants I've ever had, so good in fact I've not raised the rent as I don't want them to leave.
I'm looking at moving house and speaking with my financial advisor, it would seem mortgage applications need to know just as much information as well, bank statements, payslips, other sources of income, any dependencies, number of children, any other properties, 5 years address history etc etc etc.
I'm looking at moving house and speaking with my financial advisor, it would seem mortgage applications need to know just as much information as well, bank statements, payslips, other sources of income, any dependencies, number of children, any other properties, 5 years address history etc etc etc.
zedx19 said:
Sounds annoying, on the flip side, as a landlord myself I'd rather know up front if someone has poor credit, missed payments on rent before, will struggle for money if their bonus doesn't come in etc etc. Not saying it'd be a deal breaker if something flagged up, but it'd make me ask questions. 5 years back tenants that are still in a house I let applied, CCJ cropped up from 2 years back and 1 of them had just started a new job. Prompted me to ring them, ask some further questions which they were entirely honest about and put my mind at rest. 5 years in and they've been the best tenants I've ever had, so good in fact I've not raised the rent as I don't want them to leave.
I'm looking at moving house and speaking with my financial advisor, it would seem mortgage applications need to know just as much information as well, bank statements, payslips, other sources of income, any dependencies, number of children, any other properties, 5 years address history etc etc etc.
You'd hope, though, that mortgage providers would keep that info securely. No such guarantee with a letting agency.I'm looking at moving house and speaking with my financial advisor, it would seem mortgage applications need to know just as much information as well, bank statements, payslips, other sources of income, any dependencies, number of children, any other properties, 5 years address history etc etc etc.
zedx19 said:
Sounds annoying, on the flip side, as a landlord myself I'd rather know up front if someone has poor credit, missed payments on rent before, will struggle for money if their bonus doesn't come in etc etc. Not saying it'd be a deal breaker if something flagged up, but it'd make me ask questions. 5 years back tenants that are still in a house I let applied, CCJ cropped up from 2 years back and 1 of them had just started a new job. Prompted me to ring them, ask some further questions which they were entirely honest about and put my mind at rest. 5 years in and they've been the best tenants I've ever had, so good in fact I've not raised the rent as I don't want them to leave.
I'm looking at moving house and speaking with my financial advisor, it would seem mortgage applications need to know just as much information as well, bank statements, payslips, other sources of income, any dependencies, number of children, any other properties, 5 years address history etc etc etc.
Surely there is an in-between though. You get a reference check from an employer that says the tenant is a permanent employee on x, you get a reference check from a previous landlord that says the tenant paid the rent each month and there were no issues. I'm looking at moving house and speaking with my financial advisor, it would seem mortgage applications need to know just as much information as well, bank statements, payslips, other sources of income, any dependencies, number of children, any other properties, 5 years address history etc etc etc.
I do wonder how difficult it must be for people on lower salaries, or in less secure employment, or with some other negative in their history (bankruptcy, custodial sentence etc.) to find somewhere to live. I am lucky as a well paid professional renting as a couple I will always be near the top of the landlords list when it comes to choosing someone to rent to.
Oh and on the mortgage point, two things: (i) I trust a bank more than some random letting agent and (ii) the bank is lending you a large sum of money that you are to repay over a long time, not enter into a 12 month lease!
Edited by Integroo on Tuesday 2nd April 11:47
We were renting privately a few years ago, very informal chat with the owner / like the cut of your jib, sign a lease and job done however a unforeseen change in circumstances meant we were again looking to rent at short notice and yes, some of the agencies were borderline ridiculous with their demands... but as one chap said, it's their ball to do with as they please and such is demand for property that agencies and indeed landlord can make potential tenants jump through hoops to try and secure a house. That and many will be rightly wary about renting out to the wrong person, more so with the new laws that seem to offer infinite protection to the tenant thus landlords and agencies will be very careful to ensure they have the right person in place. Sadly, we were also renting out our house and fell foul of these new rules and ultimately it costs us thousands of pounds, a year of stress and almost our marriage trying to get our house back.
The ban on fees and charging for all these spurious checks should be coming into force in June I understand (though with all Brexit stuff going on, God knows). Should only be able to charge a holding deposit (1 weeks rent, refundable), 6 weeks deposit max (though think will be capped at 5 for most), and any changes to tenancy capped at £50. I rent myself, and what some of the agencies charge is fairly ridiculous. If possible I'd try and hold off for another couple of months to save a good few hundred quid.
Not sure what sort of percentage the agents skim for rent for a 'managed' property, but ours is under Purplebricks, and they're bloody useless, and any repairs and things through them seem to cost the landlord top whack. If they're losing out on cash through loss of fees I wonder if going to see their slice of the pie, and therefore rents, go up to compensate?
Not sure what sort of percentage the agents skim for rent for a 'managed' property, but ours is under Purplebricks, and they're bloody useless, and any repairs and things through them seem to cost the landlord top whack. If they're losing out on cash through loss of fees I wonder if going to see their slice of the pie, and therefore rents, go up to compensate?
Pothole said:
You'd hope, though, that mortgage providers would keep that info securely. No such guarantee with a letting agency.
Yeah this is true, I can't imagine letting agencies aren't particularly secure. Someone else mentioned about mortgages being for life, large sums of money etc but there are risks with tenants if proper checks aren't carried out. We ended up with a nightmare tenant who seemed lovely, but then started dealing drugs out the place, then stopped paying rent and trashed every room in the house. We started the eviction process, which was lengthy and all the while she continued living there without paying a penny. House cost a significant amount of money and time to put back into a condition and that's with me doing it myself at weekends. So a bad tenant can put a landlord significantly out of pocket and cause a lot of stress, so I'd rather see the same checks that mortgage applications go through applied to tenants.
zedx19 said:
Yeah this is true, I can't imagine letting agencies aren't particularly secure.
Someone else mentioned about mortgages being for life, large sums of money etc but there are risks with tenants if proper checks aren't carried out. We ended up with a nightmare tenant who seemed lovely, but then started dealing drugs out the place, then stopped paying rent and trashed every room in the house. We started the eviction process, which was lengthy and all the while she continued living there without paying a penny. House cost a significant amount of money and time to put back into a condition and that's with me doing it myself at weekends. So a bad tenant can put a landlord significantly out of pocket and cause a lot of stress, so I'd rather see the same checks that mortgage applications go through applied to tenants.
Would intrusive reference checks really have helped however? Someone else mentioned about mortgages being for life, large sums of money etc but there are risks with tenants if proper checks aren't carried out. We ended up with a nightmare tenant who seemed lovely, but then started dealing drugs out the place, then stopped paying rent and trashed every room in the house. We started the eviction process, which was lengthy and all the while she continued living there without paying a penny. House cost a significant amount of money and time to put back into a condition and that's with me doing it myself at weekends. So a bad tenant can put a landlord significantly out of pocket and cause a lot of stress, so I'd rather see the same checks that mortgage applications go through applied to tenants.
Integroo said:
Would intrusive reference checks really have helped however?
Reference from previous landlord would have, as it turned out this isn't the first time she'd pulled this trick. The agency we used at the time though did not carry out this check. Seemed to attract bad tenants that house, so much so that we've since sold it at a loss. zedx19 said:
Reference from previous landlord would have, as it turned out this isn't the first time she'd pulled this trick. The agency we used at the time though did not carry out this check. Seemed to attract bad tenants that house, so much so that we've since sold it at a loss.
I'm okay with references as long as there is some leeway for first time tenants, but copies of employment contracts etc seems a step far too far.Integroo said:
Does it bug anyone else how much information you have to provide?
Salary, level of anticipated bonus, other sources of income, employment status, copy of employment contract, bank details, five years address history, previous landlords details, employers details, national insurance number, evidence of previous rental payments (what do they even want here - bank statements?), bla bla various other things.
I understand that some of it is needed for a credit check, but some of it isn't. The thing that annoys me the most is there is no way of saying no. Surely a reference from my employer and a reference from a previous landlord should be more than sufficient?!
We rent out a nice family house in a nice area, at a price that undercuts all letting agents a little. We advertise via open rent. There are no fees, but referencing is 30 quid each. Salary, level of anticipated bonus, other sources of income, employment status, copy of employment contract, bank details, five years address history, previous landlords details, employers details, national insurance number, evidence of previous rental payments (what do they even want here - bank statements?), bla bla various other things.
I understand that some of it is needed for a credit check, but some of it isn't. The thing that annoys me the most is there is no way of saying no. Surely a reference from my employer and a reference from a previous landlord should be more than sufficient?!
We had 15 people interested in the first week of advertising. I put together a fairly intrusive set of questions.
5 couples were prepared to fill it in.
I have no doubt that 5 of them would have been decent tenants.
We went with the couple that we thought would stay longest and be least risk. We didn't get that from the questionnaire, but my bulls
tometer, and my wife's gut feel. This lot have been there 13 months.
They have decorated A couple of rooms. With written permission. And the back garden is much improved.
Rent review likely in 11 months but not going up much.
I need to do some pointing in the summer.
chunder27 said:
I think what bothers most people is the fee.
When we all know it costs a few quid for an ID check.
One of the most unregulated industries ever.
Yes, very annoying I have to pay £250 in fees when they are being banned in June. As mentioned above, some places wanted closer to £500! When we all know it costs a few quid for an ID check.
One of the most unregulated industries ever.
Integroo said:
I'm okay with references as long as there is some leeway for first time tenants, but copies of employment contracts etc seems a step far too far.
Prove you can pay the rent. Prove you have every intention of paying the rent.
Show me, that when you leave the place will be in one piece.
The first requires proof of income. Doesn't mean you won't be sacked tomorrow.
The second requires a credit history check. And proof you paid on time previously.
Third requires a reference from previous landlord.
Sorry if you have just started self employment and don't have your first self assessment done. Sorry if you've never rented before.
Getting it wrong can cost ££££ and months of stress. So intrusive it is.
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