The London compromise - commute v house/flat
Discussion
Depends on your long term plan really - kids, etc.
We live in walking distance of Grove Park (Bromley side) - zone 4, regular quick trains to Cannon St / Charing Cross, many stop at Lewisham for DLR. I work from home now but I've spent time commuting to both city and Canary Wharf, both are pretty easy. Nice and quick to get in if I do have meetings or for nights out. Lots of 30s semis with driveways and gardens for your budget, decent schools, etc - we moved here from North London when kids were on the way because we could actually afford a family home here. I'd also resisted buying a flat in the interim - I wanted to buy somewhere that would work for what we needed for the next 20+ years.
Crossrail will open up more places but I think many of them have had prices shoot up already.
We live in walking distance of Grove Park (Bromley side) - zone 4, regular quick trains to Cannon St / Charing Cross, many stop at Lewisham for DLR. I work from home now but I've spent time commuting to both city and Canary Wharf, both are pretty easy. Nice and quick to get in if I do have meetings or for nights out. Lots of 30s semis with driveways and gardens for your budget, decent schools, etc - we moved here from North London when kids were on the way because we could actually afford a family home here. I'd also resisted buying a flat in the interim - I wanted to buy somewhere that would work for what we needed for the next 20+ years.
Crossrail will open up more places but I think many of them have had prices shoot up already.
We live in Welling so further out that you are looking, I work all over London (currently in Putney) and the links to the mainline stations is great, 25 mins into LB, 30-35 into CX and Cannon St
Canary Wharf is the issue here, its a bit of a ballache to get to from many of the SE suburbs, Jubilee Line is your only option and when it goes its not great
Lewisham would probably be a good bet for you DLR and mainline but its still on the up side of "up and coming" and the prices don't neccesarily reflect that
Greenwich is fantastic as is Blackheath but you'll pay for those
We love Welling, we live right near Danson Park so have a huge green space and its all 1930's houses so decent plots and road space etc
Our house was in the 350k area for a 2 bed semi (which we will be extending as its a huge plot)
I think you'd be better off further out personally but the Wharf is the only potential fly in the ointment there
Canary Wharf is the issue here, its a bit of a ballache to get to from many of the SE suburbs, Jubilee Line is your only option and when it goes its not great
Lewisham would probably be a good bet for you DLR and mainline but its still on the up side of "up and coming" and the prices don't neccesarily reflect that
Greenwich is fantastic as is Blackheath but you'll pay for those
We love Welling, we live right near Danson Park so have a huge green space and its all 1930's houses so decent plots and road space etc
Our house was in the 350k area for a 2 bed semi (which we will be extending as its a huge plot)
I think you'd be better off further out personally but the Wharf is the only potential fly in the ointment there
House has Blackheath postcode - but isn't, it's also a stone's throw from the A2. It might be more space; but the noise will get tiring quickly.
Flat looks to be better positioned - but's only 690 sq ft.
To be honest, Greenwich / Blackheath sound ideal for you (I used to live bang on teh heath) - but you need to up the budget 650k gets you into flats twice the size of the Rotherhithe one and some houses). 30 mins to the wharf from Greenwich (even 50mins to the City) seems toppy? Are you a long way from the Station? I can cycle from Sidcup to Canary Wharf in 35mins. If you are doing Corp Finance / Lawyer hours, Brompton in (15mins max), Uber home bike in boot - 12quid & 15 mins max (unless Blackwall tunnel is screwed).
Problem with SE London, is it's up and down (I suppose like any bit of London). Good streets and property are going to be expensive; even if the surrounding areas are less desirable. Family sized homes on our road, still sell before they hit the Estate Agents - but it's a micro climate. I don't think you can go far wrong with a decent sized gaff in Blackheath to be fair. Car theft anywhere in SE London right now is absolute epidemic. Depends on what your garage looks like, but keyless stuff is flyiing off peoples driveways (I should know we lost a Touareg a few weeks ago).
BREXIT has to be acknowledged a risk (tail risk of no deal); but is it a home or investment? If the former; you might be best to max up for the first step.
Flat looks to be better positioned - but's only 690 sq ft.
To be honest, Greenwich / Blackheath sound ideal for you (I used to live bang on teh heath) - but you need to up the budget 650k gets you into flats twice the size of the Rotherhithe one and some houses). 30 mins to the wharf from Greenwich (even 50mins to the City) seems toppy? Are you a long way from the Station? I can cycle from Sidcup to Canary Wharf in 35mins. If you are doing Corp Finance / Lawyer hours, Brompton in (15mins max), Uber home bike in boot - 12quid & 15 mins max (unless Blackwall tunnel is screwed).
Problem with SE London, is it's up and down (I suppose like any bit of London). Good streets and property are going to be expensive; even if the surrounding areas are less desirable. Family sized homes on our road, still sell before they hit the Estate Agents - but it's a micro climate. I don't think you can go far wrong with a decent sized gaff in Blackheath to be fair. Car theft anywhere in SE London right now is absolute epidemic. Depends on what your garage looks like, but keyless stuff is flyiing off peoples driveways (I should know we lost a Touareg a few weeks ago).
BREXIT has to be acknowledged a risk (tail risk of no deal); but is it a home or investment? If the former; you might be best to max up for the first step.
Edited by stongle on Tuesday 15th October 14:43
Edited by stongle on Tuesday 15th October 14:46
Bussolini said:
Agreed, the Wharf is the pain - it would be trains into either Canada Water / Surrey Quays / North Greenwich for Jubilee or into Lewisham for DLR. There are a few houses around about the price we are looking at in Lewisham, for example:
https://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/53013198
The other consideration is we are still young, do we really want to live in suburbia? We really like where we are in Greenwich at the moment - easy to get into the City for a night out etc., whilst being quiet and green enough it doesn't feel like you're slap bang in an urban jungle.
If it were me and I had your budget I'd be pushing and buying in Greenwich or Blackheath, they are lovely areas and worth it imohttps://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/53013198
The other consideration is we are still young, do we really want to live in suburbia? We really like where we are in Greenwich at the moment - easy to get into the City for a night out etc., whilst being quiet and green enough it doesn't feel like you're slap bang in an urban jungle.
For us in Welling nights out are ok trains run quite late, if we are really late then Jub is 24 hours so NG and then Uber or Night Bus home (normally Uber these days tbf)
Bussolini said:
We are in Millenium Quays by the Waitrose - it's probably closer to 20 minutes to my office tbh, just under ten minutes to the station, ten minutes on the train, five minutes to my office. The other half currently does DLR to Bank, tube to Liverpool Street and then walks up Bishopsgate which is about 45-50 minutes, though she is switching to a job near Tower Bridge and so will likely be nearer 40 minutes - DLR to Westferry then to Bank then walk, or bus to Tower Bridge and then walk. I have considered cycling, but would have to faff about with the foot tunnel.
I have a 20 year old Alfa 156 in an underground car park, not a thief's first choice
We could up the budget and buy something like what we are in for 600k ish - large two bed top floor flat - but 600k on a two bed flat seems mental, and we get a free 4-6k from the Govt with the LISA depending when we buy (accepting that is relatively immaterial in the grand scheme of things, but it seems a sensible budgetary cut off).
600 is still decent, you could probably pick something up in the Cator Estate with 3 beds for that - but it's going to put you into B'heath for the commute (so yoiu are train to Lewisham then DLR to Wharf - crica 30mins). Wife gets a better deal. I have a 20 year old Alfa 156 in an underground car park, not a thief's first choice
We could up the budget and buy something like what we are in for 600k ish - large two bed top floor flat - but 600k on a two bed flat seems mental, and we get a free 4-6k from the Govt with the LISA depending when we buy (accepting that is relatively immaterial in the grand scheme of things, but it seems a sensible budgetary cut off).
600 on a flat is mad, but it's crazy pretty much everywhere. We recently saw some 2 beds round the corner from us clearing 500. I think you're less likely to looe in Blackheath / Greenwich as it commands very strong rents. It's very difficult to get a longer term picture, BREXIT is weighing as a whole - but if you are competing for good area / school - it's still a buyers market. 3 houses in our road have had sold signs appear in the last month (no sale signs); ALL >775K.
I worked in the City and lived in Canary Wharf, other people that I worked with lived as far away as Eastbourne, paid £5000 in rail fares and had a hell of a commute, they also couldnt make evening do's, which was a problem. I bought a three storey house on Narrow Street, not far from the Grapes, and then later bought a 2 bedroomed apartment in Dundee Wharf, the flat cost me £170,000 to buy and I sold it for £750,000 last year.
It was an easy DLR ride to work, 30 minutes door to door.
I would always advise to live close to wear you work as most people work longish hours and weekends, I used to do 13 hours a day minimum and often 6 days a week. If I had to add on a 1-2 hour commute then it would have been bad news.
It was an easy DLR ride to work, 30 minutes door to door.
I would always advise to live close to wear you work as most people work longish hours and weekends, I used to do 13 hours a day minimum and often 6 days a week. If I had to add on a 1-2 hour commute then it would have been bad news.
Robbo 27 said:
I would always advise to live close to wear you work as most people work longish hours and weekends, I used to do 13 hours a day minimum and often 6 days a week. If I had to add on a 1-2 hour commute then it would have been bad news.
See I think this is bad advice, live where you wanna live as work can and will change outside of your control, as long as you have a decent journey time into town you are fine, I am going SE to SW at the moment and it's still only 90 mins maxThe OP might focus his whole move around CW only for his company to move into the city
Be down to the commute you're willing to suffer in my opinion, delays get peoples backs right up people go absolutely sick at Waterloo when they occur where as I am happy to zone out and people watch while I wait.
I live in West Byfleet/Byfleet with a 40-ish min train into Waterloo, moved where we do to avoid living in London but have a semi-ok commute if we do want to work in London, at the time my wife worked in London but has since left and works in Surrey and I swore Id never work on London so I got a job in London this year. For me I am currently as far as Leytenstone where my door to door commute is up to 2 hrs at the moment. But that's my job and for all I know I could be in Manchester on a project there next year that's how it is, I enjoy the change of scenery and enjoy what I do but appreciate that 2 hrs, 1 train ride, 2 tubes and a bus might be nuts for some people.
I live in West Byfleet/Byfleet with a 40-ish min train into Waterloo, moved where we do to avoid living in London but have a semi-ok commute if we do want to work in London, at the time my wife worked in London but has since left and works in Surrey and I swore Id never work on London so I got a job in London this year. For me I am currently as far as Leytenstone where my door to door commute is up to 2 hrs at the moment. But that's my job and for all I know I could be in Manchester on a project there next year that's how it is, I enjoy the change of scenery and enjoy what I do but appreciate that 2 hrs, 1 train ride, 2 tubes and a bus might be nuts for some people.
Son bought in 1 bed ground floor of terrace in Tooting Broadway for same price as Daughter bought 2 bed terrace in St Albans. Both are very happy as they both have direct links to their places of work.
One word of caution from their purchase experience is you must be prepared to almost make an offer when you call for an appointment. So many times by the time they got to see the place it was already gone. I guess it may change but there are so few good places available at the entry level it will be hot. It took them both over 1 year to secure a place.
One word of caution from their purchase experience is you must be prepared to almost make an offer when you call for an appointment. So many times by the time they got to see the place it was already gone. I guess it may change but there are so few good places available at the entry level it will be hot. It took them both over 1 year to secure a place.
Bussolini said:
Abbott said:
Son bought in 1 bed ground floor of terrace in Tooting Broadway for same price as Daughter bought 2 bed terrace in St Albans. Both are very happy as they both have direct links to their places of work.
One word of caution from their purchase experience is you must be prepared to almost make an offer when you call for an appointment. So many times by the time they got to see the place it was already gone. I guess it may change but there are so few good places available at the entry level it will be hot. It took them both over 1 year to secure a place.
Is that recently? I was under the impression that property wasn't moving quickly at the moment and an offer under the asking price might get accepted (particularly where you are a flexible ftb not in a chain). Is that not the case for the flats nearer the entry level of the market? For example, the one in the OP I want to view is up at 475k and I intended to offer no more than £450k. One word of caution from their purchase experience is you must be prepared to almost make an offer when you call for an appointment. So many times by the time they got to see the place it was already gone. I guess it may change but there are so few good places available at the entry level it will be hot. It took them both over 1 year to secure a place.
They both bought within the last 2 years and they were around your budget. They went to see lots of places where offers were made over the asking.
I do not expect the Bottom end of the market to suddenly drop but I am not an expert
Brother in-law lives in Sawbridgeworth and commutes in to Bow everyday, forgive my ignorance on London regions but from his door to his office door was about the hour mark.
Do you have to live in London OP?
Could you not live outside and get more for your money as such then move in to London after when you "possibly" paid down your mortgage abit and wont get stung as much?
Do you have to live in London OP?
Could you not live outside and get more for your money as such then move in to London after when you "possibly" paid down your mortgage abit and wont get stung as much?
Bussolini said:
Hmm, wasn't what I expected but I have no experience in this market.
No hard rules - supply & demand varies wildly and also depends very much on the position of the vendor.Rightmove etc make it far easier to see how long a property has been on the market & what the current vendor paid for it than ever used to be the case.
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