How did some people keep their houses in WW2?
Discussion
Afternoon all,
There has been much hyperbole comparing the current situation to the country being at war, but one point that did make me think was how people coped when we actually were at war?
At present, there's a lot of panic (completely understandably) from people who've seen their incomes greatly reduced or even wiped out completely, but we've only been in the current situation for a month. How on earth did people cope when the situation was going on for years?
I would imagine you can draw a parallel, from a financial perspective, between furloughing today and conscription in WW2. In today's terms, plenty of people's salaries are more or less covered by the amount paid out on furlough, but a significant proportion of people will be seeing really significant cuts in their household income at £2,500 per month.
Similarly, I would imagine - especially once the fact that you've practically nothing to spend your money is taken into account - that the majority of men called up would've seen their needs met by their soldier's salaries, but what happened to people in a highly paid profession? They presumably saw a major cut for years, not just a couple of months? How did they keep paying the mortgage?
There has been much hyperbole comparing the current situation to the country being at war, but one point that did make me think was how people coped when we actually were at war?
At present, there's a lot of panic (completely understandably) from people who've seen their incomes greatly reduced or even wiped out completely, but we've only been in the current situation for a month. How on earth did people cope when the situation was going on for years?
I would imagine you can draw a parallel, from a financial perspective, between furloughing today and conscription in WW2. In today's terms, plenty of people's salaries are more or less covered by the amount paid out on furlough, but a significant proportion of people will be seeing really significant cuts in their household income at £2,500 per month.
Similarly, I would imagine - especially once the fact that you've practically nothing to spend your money is taken into account - that the majority of men called up would've seen their needs met by their soldier's salaries, but what happened to people in a highly paid profession? They presumably saw a major cut for years, not just a couple of months? How did they keep paying the mortgage?
My Great Grandfather had a protected occupation as he owned an engineering firm, during WW2 they built and fitted flight cameras to aircraft. Ok not typical of the time but one such example. He was a fascinating man with a very devious sense of humour that I appear to have inherited and I have many fond memories of him from my childhood. My great grandmother wrote some very basic memoirs from the war I have some of them somewhere and will see if I can dig them out and see what she had to say about it too.
Most people back then rented and did not have a mortgage.
To answer your question they struggled a lot.
My grandfather volunteered at the start of WW2 and left a well paid management job to be a private in the RA. His wife and children received a part of his army pay but it was a pittance and they ended up with no rental house of their own. They then ended up moving between relatives houses until each grew fed up of them and sent them packing (imagine a small family arriving and staying at your house, we would all accept it but it will grate after a few months let alone 6 years!)
So they travelled from house to house not feeling welcome at any for 6 years, absent father, housing in general in very short supply because of bombing / influx of allied troops from all countries like Canada, USA, India, Australia, Poland, France etc etc. Hotels commandeered and so on.
Even after the war many families shared accommodation. Eventually my grandparents and their family got a prefab house and then afterwards a new build council house. Eventually my grandfather rebuilt his career and bought their own house.
All in all though 10+ years of effective homelessness.
To answer your question they struggled a lot.
My grandfather volunteered at the start of WW2 and left a well paid management job to be a private in the RA. His wife and children received a part of his army pay but it was a pittance and they ended up with no rental house of their own. They then ended up moving between relatives houses until each grew fed up of them and sent them packing (imagine a small family arriving and staying at your house, we would all accept it but it will grate after a few months let alone 6 years!)
So they travelled from house to house not feeling welcome at any for 6 years, absent father, housing in general in very short supply because of bombing / influx of allied troops from all countries like Canada, USA, India, Australia, Poland, France etc etc. Hotels commandeered and so on.
Even after the war many families shared accommodation. Eventually my grandparents and their family got a prefab house and then afterwards a new build council house. Eventually my grandfather rebuilt his career and bought their own house.
All in all though 10+ years of effective homelessness.
Kermit power said:
Afternoon all,
There has been much hyperbole comparing the current situation to the country being at war, but one point that did make me think was how people coped when we actually were at war?
At present, there's a lot of panic (completely understandably) from people who've seen their incomes greatly reduced or even wiped out completely, but we've only been in the current situation for a month. How on earth did people cope when the situation was going on for years?
I would imagine you can draw a parallel, from a financial perspective, between furloughing today and conscription in WW2. In today's terms, plenty of people's salaries are more or less covered by the amount paid out on furlough, but a significant proportion of people will be seeing really significant cuts in their household income at £2,500 per month.
Similarly, I would imagine - especially once the fact that you've practically nothing to spend your money is taken into account - that the majority of men called up would've seen their needs met by their soldier's salaries, but what happened to people in a highly paid profession? They presumably saw a major cut for years, not just a couple of months? How did they keep paying the mortgage?
When the entire county is mobilised for war, there isn't a shortage of jobs to do, gainful employment isn't difficult to find and it will be paying work. There has been much hyperbole comparing the current situation to the country being at war, but one point that did make me think was how people coped when we actually were at war?
At present, there's a lot of panic (completely understandably) from people who've seen their incomes greatly reduced or even wiped out completely, but we've only been in the current situation for a month. How on earth did people cope when the situation was going on for years?
I would imagine you can draw a parallel, from a financial perspective, between furloughing today and conscription in WW2. In today's terms, plenty of people's salaries are more or less covered by the amount paid out on furlough, but a significant proportion of people will be seeing really significant cuts in their household income at £2,500 per month.
Similarly, I would imagine - especially once the fact that you've practically nothing to spend your money is taken into account - that the majority of men called up would've seen their needs met by their soldier's salaries, but what happened to people in a highly paid profession? They presumably saw a major cut for years, not just a couple of months? How did they keep paying the mortgage?
We really should be thinking about post WW2 where the jobs dried up and bills started coming in again. Fun fact, the UK received more money from the Marshall plan than any other nation.
The current crisis will be nothing like that. The big problem today is debt. Some people are leveraged up to their eyeballs in debt, often with few assets to show for it. Forget the house as even if you owe more than it's worth it's still a house you can live in.
I'm talking more about the cars on credit, the maxed out credit card that gets salaries poured into it each month so it can be maxed out again, the personal loan to pay for luxuries like holidays.
People who's entire pay goes to the servicing of debts with no buffer because they thought this would never happen.
Or worse yet, the BTL investments where rent is barely paying the minimum. Those are the people who will suffer.
Now I'm not predicting doom and gloom for everyone. Those smart enough to not get into debt that far, even if you've got a lease or PCP, as long as you can still service your debts on 80% of your income you'll be OK, you might need to tighten the belt a little, but still be doing OK compared to Mr and Mrs everything on credit and their pile of overdue notices.
So most people will be fine as the economy picks up post COVID-19. Some may even realise its a good time to reduce your debt risk before the next crisis hits.
t slinging thread? There are more than enough of those already.eliot said:
captain_cynic said:
Those smart enough to not get into debt that far, even if you've got a lease or PCP, as long as you can still service your debts on 80% of your income you'll be OK,
But capped at £2000 take home remember - so anyone on more than £30k will be getting a hair cut.BTW I thought the furlough scheme was Caped at £2800 pcm?
captain_cynic said:
Fair enough, but I am thinking of post COVID where some people will be taking a permanent cut. Those who planned buffers into their outgoings will be fine.
BTW I thought the furlough scheme was Caped at £2800 pcm?
you're both wrong! BTW I thought the furlough scheme was Caped at £2800 pcm?
Capped at £2,500 but that's gross, and I don't think you'll be getting a tax code change to reflect this for the period either.
The mortgage market was tiny in comparison to the current situation and indeed homes were not looked on as commodities in the same way. My grandfather owned his own house in Tottenham merely because it had been handed down to him by his fairly affluent father who was a dock manager. However in the war my gran (grandad in the Royal Artillery) ended up with extended family living within the same house as various family members were either bombed out or could not afford their rent. This was the case until the early 50's.
My dad's parents purchased a new house in 1935 when they married. I know it cost £550 and they paid a £50 deposit. I seem to recall that they said that the mortgage was around £3 per month. He was a milkman and my grandmother had been a book keeper before they married but obviously didn't work after as was the case in those days. He joined the Army when war broke out and they had the option of only paying the interest on the mortgage for the duration. However she moved back in with her parents to save on utilities etc and they managed to keep paying the capital as well. I have often wondered what would have happened if your property was destroyed by enemy action as insurance wouldn't have covered it. Would you have to have kept on paying the mortgage ?
Shakermaker said:
you're both wrong!
Capped at £2,500 but that's gross, and I don't think you'll be getting a tax code change to reflect this for the period either.
Which is £2000 take home, which is what i said.Capped at £2,500 but that's gross, and I don't think you'll be getting a tax code change to reflect this for the period either.
If you are on 40% or more, i assume it will all net itself out eventually.
MikeStroud said:
Most people back then rented and did not have a mortgage.
To answer your question they struggled a lot.
My grandfather volunteered at the start of WW2 and left a well paid management job to be a private in the RA. His wife and children received a part of his army pay but it was a pittance and they ended up with no rental house of their own. They then ended up moving between relatives houses until each grew fed up of them and sent them packing (imagine a small family arriving and staying at your house, we would all accept it but it will grate after a few months let alone 6 years!)
So they travelled from house to house not feeling welcome at any for 6 years, absent father, housing in general in very short supply because of bombing / influx of allied troops from all countries like Canada, USA, India, Australia, Poland, France etc etc. Hotels commandeered and so on.
Even after the war many families shared accommodation. Eventually my grandparents and their family got a prefab house and then afterwards a new build council house. Eventually my grandfather rebuilt his career and bought their own house.
All in all though 10+ years of effective homelessness.
Thanks for that, this was exactly the sort of answer I was looking for. My grandfathers were both in protected occupations (one was a local authority engineer who spent the war building RAF bases whilst still employed by the council on secondment and the other an accountant in the War Office who needless to say didn't get any less busy) so I didn't have any frame of reference within my own family.To answer your question they struggled a lot.
My grandfather volunteered at the start of WW2 and left a well paid management job to be a private in the RA. His wife and children received a part of his army pay but it was a pittance and they ended up with no rental house of their own. They then ended up moving between relatives houses until each grew fed up of them and sent them packing (imagine a small family arriving and staying at your house, we would all accept it but it will grate after a few months let alone 6 years!)
So they travelled from house to house not feeling welcome at any for 6 years, absent father, housing in general in very short supply because of bombing / influx of allied troops from all countries like Canada, USA, India, Australia, Poland, France etc etc. Hotels commandeered and so on.
Even after the war many families shared accommodation. Eventually my grandparents and their family got a prefab house and then afterwards a new build council house. Eventually my grandfather rebuilt his career and bought their own house.
All in all though 10+ years of effective homelessness.
I think then like now, it varies a lot. My grandparents were farmers/ farm labours, so to an extent the war didn't really affect them. There was plenty of work even if you weren't called up. Obviously the economy was "healthy" Some people didn't have much money, for various reasons but there was only a very limited (both in monetary value and availability) social payments as well
Its a good question. If you'd just taken a good job or promotion and decided to go for it on the family home with a mortgage and then found yourself in the army for years then I have no idea! Must be plenty of people like that now - life seemed good, jobs going well - you take the plunge and then this arrives.
My grandparents rented their entire life. Grandparents the other side didnt serve(not physically fit) so I guess they got lucky er.
My godmother lives in a small house, its been in the family for ever so shes never had a mortgage, there are plenty of houses like that and would have been during the war.
My grandparents rented their entire life. Grandparents the other side didnt serve(not physically fit) so I guess they got lucky er.
My godmother lives in a small house, its been in the family for ever so shes never had a mortgage, there are plenty of houses like that and would have been during the war.
Kermit power said:
At present, there's a lot of panic ...
It wont be a popular opinion at the moment, I'm sure, but maybe it's because we've turned into a bunch of hand-wringing, spineless liberals?Since you're comparing the situation with war:
- British fatalities so far due to COVID: 26,771 (many of whom had underlying health problems anyway)
- British fatalities on day 1 alone of the Somme offensive in WWI: 19,240
- Civilian Fatalities in London alone during the Blitz: 32,000
National response during COVID: flat panic and economic suicide.
MikeStroud said:
My grandfather volunteered at the start of WW2 and left a well paid management job to be a private in the RA.
He may have done and good for him, however conscription started in 1939, so he would have been called up anyway quite quickly.Most people rented in those days. The rent - or mortgage - was paid by the government.
My paternal grandfather spent most of the war trying to get our family (wife and 5 kids) back from Japan to the UK. A mammoth and dangerous journey at that time. I believe they lived off other people's kindness whilst slowly migrating across the US.
My maternal grandfather was 'earning' in North Africa and various POW camps in Europe.
I don't think there is any comparison between this and the World Wars. (Financial or otherwise).
The only danger of rationing we have is people's greed and selfishness.
My maternal grandfather was 'earning' in North Africa and various POW camps in Europe.
I don't think there is any comparison between this and the World Wars. (Financial or otherwise).
The only danger of rationing we have is people's greed and selfishness.
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