Some plumbing advice for a DIYer please..... toilet overflow

[TTmonkey]

Fitted a new toilet Wednesday, one with an internal overflow.

I’ve fitted toilets like this successfully before, no dramas.

This one is bugging me though. The float isn’t turning off the water supply. No amount of adjustment of the float height seems to work. If I hold the float arm fully up it still runs. As you can see by the photos the float is fully submerged but the water just keeps coming.

So I thought I had a dodgy refill unit with a duff valve, so yesterday I changed it with another brand new one. Flow master 400 I think it is. It turned out to be exactly the same design that I already had. (Coincidence).

Fitted it and again had the problem. Still water running down the pan.

Flushed a few times when suddenly, it stopped the water flow. Happy day I thought, went in with other work. Later in the evening I flushed the toilet and them it wouldn’t stop the water again.

I know I must be doing something wrong, because two brand new units doIng the same thing - must be me. But I’ve run out of ideas.

Can’t see anything on the net that seems to apply in this situation.

Thanks in advance,,

[TTmonkey]

Seems I can’t even post photos the right way up now.... fml today.

[chrisch77]

You may find that the inlet valve body is height adjustable, not just the screw thread adjuster on the float, and the valve is currently too long to ever work with the overflow tube height in the cistern.

The inlet valve should have come with instructions that will state a recommended height to set the top of the valve body above the overflow tube. Adjusting the height go the valve may be difficult in situ so you may need to measure as it is and then take the valve out to shorten it.

[TTmonkey]

chrisch77 said:

You may find that the inlet valve body is height adjustable, not just the screw thread adjuster on the float, and the valve is currently too long to ever work with the overflow tube height in the cistern.

The inlet valve should have come with instructions that will state a recommended height to set the top of the valve body above the overflow tube. Adjusting the height go the valve may be difficult in situ so you may need to measure as it is and then take the valve out to shorten it.

I get what you mean, but the float is fully submerged and the lever is fully pressed in the up position, but still the valve doesn’t close.

[ade73]

Has the toilet water inlet got a shut off valve attached? If so, try closing it a bit to slow the water coming in.

Had this on one of our toilets and this did the trick.

[SiH]

WIth these Flowmaster units the bottom fill ones have a 'stem' that comes in two parts to allow for variability in height in the cistern. The top part of that stem has a plastic collar (rather like a big copper olive) that you slide down to tighten the top part of the stem to the bottom part. Have you tightened that down as if not you could end up with water leaking from between the top and bottom parts which will go straight into the cistern, bypassing the valve unit. That could explain why you're still getting water into the cistern even though the float will be apparently closing the valve.
Failing that it could just be bad luck and you've got a second dodgy unit.

[TTmonkey]

SiH said:

WIth these Flowmaster units the bottom fill ones have a 'stem' that comes in two parts to allow for variability in height in the cistern. The top part of that stem has a plastic collar (rather like a big copper olive) that you slide down to tighten the top part of the stem to the bottom part. Have you tightened that down as if not you could end up with water leaking from between the top and bottom parts which will go straight into the cistern, bypassing the valve unit. That could explain why you're still getting water into the cistern even though the float will be apparently closing the valve.
Failing that it could just be bad luck and you've got a second dodgy unit.

Thanks will take a look. I have a spare part to look at

[Sheepshanks]

Fluidmaster, isn't it?

I don't think you're supposed to undo the collar to adjust the height, just click the top and bottom sections around.

I recall they're supposed to be flushed out, but I've never done that (DIYer, fitted a few). Hard to imagine that two would fail and a bit odd that it worked once.

[TTmonkey]

Sheepshanks said:

Fluidmaster, isn't it?

I don't think you're supposed to undo the collar to adjust the height, just click the top and bottom sections around.

I recall they're supposed to be flushed out, but I've never done that (DIYer, fitted a few). Hard to imagine that two would fail and a bit odd that it worked once.

Yes fluidmaster. Both effectively the same design, brand new. The one that came with the cistern was all plastic, the one replacing it had a bronze lower fitting where you connect the pipe, but other than that, identical.

Tried dropping the water pressure right down, no difference, except takes longer to fill.

Tried raising and lowering the overall height using the adjuster on the stem, no difference.

Going to try a different brand later if I can get one.

One thing I would say.... these things are stupidly cheap. I’d rather pay more for something a bit more ‘quality’, and perhaps something that I know has been pre configured and tested.,.... cheap isn’t always best.

[eps]

If they're the ones I think they are, are you in a hard water area or is there a lot of crud in the system? If so, more than likely something has got itself lodged in the cap and it doesn't seal properly. Remove the cap - they're a bit of a faff to remove - then see if you can see anything obvious or feel anything - either way wash out and it will probably be fine after you've done this.

Ideally make sure the water in the cistern is crud free though, otherwise you will have the same problem later on..

HTH

[TTmonkey]

eps said:

If they're the ones I think they are, are you in a hard water area or is there a lot of crud in the system? If so, more than likely something has got itself lodged in the cap and it doesn't seal properly. Remove the cap - they're a bit of a faff to remove - then see if you can see anything obvious or feel anything - either way wash out and it will probably be fine after you've done this.

Ideally make sure the water in the cistern is crud free though, otherwise you will have the same problem later on..

HTH

All brand new. No debris or calcium build up, no dust or grime. Fresh out of the box.

I took the ‘spare’ apart and the little pin that moves up and down goes through the rubber valve but isn’t attached to it. So it doesn’t seem to push the valve at all. It’s like it should be affixed in order to push the
Rubber valve home. Or maybe there’s something missing.

I think it’s time to go find another supplier.

[geeks]

Seems a bit odd I have fitted a dozen or so similar items and they have always been fit, adjust and forget. Are you supplying with a mains feed or a water tank?

[guindilias]

Fluidmaster are great stuff, never had a problem with them. No hard water here, but that's not going to be an issue with a new valve anyway.

[TTmonkey]

geeks said:

Seems a bit odd I have fitted a dozen or so similar items and they have always been fit, adjust and forget. Are you supplying with a mains feed or a water tank?

Low pressure, it’s from the tank.


I’ve done a couple before an had the same results as you, easy fit, adjust, sorted. No drama.


I’m perplexed.

[Alucidnation]

st in the valve.

[liam1986]

TTmonkey said:

Low pressure, it’s from the tank.


I’ve done a couple before an had the same results as you, easy fit, adjust, sorted. No drama.


I’m perplexed.

You might need a specific low pressure unit <0.5bar.

I had a simular issue when I moved and couldn't work out why the toilet valve wouldnt stop running. It needed over to 1bar of pressure to close it.

[eps]

TTmonkey said:

eps said:

If they're the ones I think they are, are you in a hard water area or is there a lot of crud in the system? If so, more than likely something has got itself lodged in the cap and it doesn't seal properly. Remove the cap - they're a bit of a faff to remove - then see if you can see anything obvious or feel anything - either way wash out and it will probably be fine after you've done this.

Ideally make sure the water in the cistern is crud free though, otherwise you will have the same problem later on..

HTH

All brand new. No debris or calcium build up, no dust or grime. Fresh out of the box.

I took the ‘spare’ apart and the little pin that moves up and down goes through the rubber valve but isn’t attached to it. So it doesn’t seem to push the valve at all. It’s like it should be affixed in order to push the
Rubber valve home. Or maybe there’s something missing.

I think it’s time to go find another supplier.

?

The water in the cistern + system.. the crud comes from there, not the valve itself... The valve is fine until you introduced some crud.

Try flushing out the top of the cap - it should then work fine.

You've got two valves... It's highly unlikely that both are faulty - the common part of the system is the crud in your cistern.

[Sheepshanks]

liam1986 said:

TTmonkey said:

Low pressure, it’s from the tank.


I’ve done a couple before an had the same results as you, easy fit, adjust, sorted. No drama.


I’m perplexed.

You might need a specific low pressure unit <0.5bar.

I had a simular issue when I moved and couldn't work out why the toilet valve wouldnt stop running. It needed over to 1bar of pressure to close it.

I nearly posted this https://www.fluidmaster.com/wp-content/uploads/201... earlier but I decided it was talking about the valve not filling, but it could be that low pressure doesn't shut the valve off?

I'm thinking that's unlikely though, but don't know how the valve works internally - you'd think the more the water level rose the harder the valve would close.

[anonymous-user]

liam1986 said:

You might need a specific low pressure unit <0.5bar.

I had a simular issue when I moved and couldn't work out why the toilet valve wouldnt stop running. It needed over to 1bar of pressure to close it.

I would suspect this. Our toilets are supplied by mains pressure. They’ve been replacing the water main up the road for what seems like ages so the pressure to our house can be appalling. First thing that happens is all the toilets start running so it appears the valve is leaking. Quickly sorted as soon as pressure returns to normal. If you’ve got the wrong valve I’d guess you could be seeing the same thing.

[netherfield]

Alucidnation said:

st in the valve.

Is that a cure?;)