Electrical advice - Landlord certificate EICR

[Austin_Metro]

Hi, I'd appreciate a steer from someone qualified please ...

An EICR check for a one bedroom flat has come back with a "unsatisfactory" and 2 C2 ratings (see below):

The fail came with a quote, and the fix that they are quoting for is:

"Supply and install 18th edition dual RCD fuseboard with meter tails." (for £1300 - zone 1/2 London - £400 materials and 650 ish labour and VAT)

The existing Fuseboard is not that old (5 years?) - but it is plastic and I think the 18th are all metal - is that right? Do the EICR require an 18th board?

The internet tell me that a Fuseboard to 18th is less than £200 - what other materials are there?

Thanks in advance, Austin

CERT SAYS

4.18 RCD(s) provided for fault protection - includes RCBOs (411.4.204; 411.5.2; 531.2) is in a
potentially dangerous condition. Urgent remedial action is required. - C2

4.19 RCD(s) provided for additional protection/requirements - includes RCBOs (411.3.3; 415.1)
is in a potentially dangerous condition. Urgent remedial action is required. - C2

[Mr Pointy]

The test report is meant to relate to the standards in force at the time the wiring was installed - it's not meant to be an excuse to charge to bring the installation up to the 18th Edition. However if there are faults then they need to be flagged & rectified. What exactly is wrong to make the RCDs a "potentially dangerous condition"? If it's just the fact the CU is plastic that shouldn't be enough, although some electricians are coding them if the CU is below the stairs or over an exit door.

You could try posting over on Landlordzone:
https://forums.landlordzone.co.uk/forum/safety-hhs...

You cold also peruse the DiYNot forum:
https://www.diynot.com/diy/forums/electrics/

[quinny100]

The legislation around these landlord inspections is terrible and on the face of it the guidance seems to suggest that all rental properties must be wired to 18th Edition regulations and some sparks are interpreting it that way. That means anything designed before 1st January 2019 more than likely will not be compliant and will require remedial work.

There aren't enough sparks in the country to undertake this work by January 2021.

David Savery has done a couple of great videos on this topic, and he would say the findings of your EICR are wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_UN84w8brk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drRTv9yyArs&ab...

Absence of an RCD and lack of a metal 18th Ed CU does not render an installation unsafe - changes to the regulations may improve safety, but if it was installed to regulations in place at the time and the job was done properly then it is not suddenly rendered unsafe by some writing in a regulations document.

[Mr Pointy]

It doesn't help that the wording on the .Gov website isn't too clear (maybe deliberately) & there's a specific question:

"Will all installations have to comply with the 18th edition, even if they were installed before this edition was in force?"

But the answer is a typical politicans collection of weasel words & doesn't say yes or no.

However at one point they are forced to say:

"Existing installations that have been installed in accordance with earlier editions of the Wiring Regulations may not comply with the 18th edition in every respect. This does not necessarily mean that they are unsafe for continued use or require upgrading."

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/electri...

[Austin_Metro]

Thank you. That’s helpful information.

[Austin_Metro]

This is the current one. No pun intended.

What do the two C2 comments actually mean? That i don’t have rcd’s or the ones I have are faulty? I don’t know an rcd, from an rcbo...

Could I just get an rcd and put it into this board and then pass?

Any further guidance welcome

Ps - just read first replies again, I’m tempted to ask what it is that is wrong ... could be faulty rather than not at rcd??

Edited by Austin_Metro on Monday 14th September 17:57

[Black_S3]

It seems expensive but it’s London..... usually somewhere around £400-600 inc vat for a cu swap most places in the country outside London. Cc, parking in zone 1 and walking to/from the van does add up though?

[dazwalsh]

That requires RCD at least so I'm leaning towards supporting the need for a new consumer unit, are you sure that was installed 5 years ago because it would have had rcd surely then? Looks way older.

It would have been fine if it was plastic, my electrician is working his way through my rental portfolio at the moment, hasn't flagged up any non metal ones as a problem, only the ones that have no rcd protection.

[Smiljan]

Mine is plastic and I had an EICR done a couple of weeks ago. He mentioned it was no longer up to standard but didn't need replacing to pass.

[Mr Pointy]

dazwalsh said:

That requires RCD at least so I'm leaning towards supporting the need for a new consumer unit, are you sure that was installed 5 years ago because it would have had rcd surely then? Looks way older.

It would have been fine if it was plastic, my electrician is working his way through my rental portfolio at the moment, hasn't flagged up any non metal ones as a problem, only the ones that have no rcd protection.

The photo is poor but it looks like the Wylex device is a 30mA RCD.

OP: you're going to have to ask the electrician what the issue is - does the RCD not trip correctly for instance? Were there a set of test results provided?

[Austin_Metro]

Thanks both.

I'm not that keen on the £1288 quoted for a swap. They want £480 for the materials and a unit seems to be less than £200 on Toolstation. Daz, why do you favour replacement out of interest - just because it looks old and might as well do it properly first time?

I'm providing parking so that's not a problem!

[dazwalsh]

Mr Pointy said:

The photo is poor but it looks like the Wylex device is a 30mA RCD.

OP: you're going to have to ask the electrician what the issue is - does the RCD not trip correctly for instance? Were there a set of test results provided?

I'm no electrician but is that not just an RCBO?

[Austin_Metro]

Is that legible?

[Austin_Metro]

Circuit 2 is the RCD. I think!

[thebraketester]

How have they got to £480 for a consumer unit and meter tails? Presumably gold plated?

[Mr Pointy]

Austin_Metro said:

Is that legible?

Only just. It looks like the board has been messed about with the original Circuit 2 MCB replaced by an RCBO (it's difficult to tell with such a fuzzy picture) but no RCD protection for the sockets on Circuits 3 & 4. You need to talk to him & get him to explain the faults in words - if he's failed just the two socket circuits can he not replace the MCBs with RCBOs like circuit 2?

[Mr Pointy]

thebraketester said:

How have they got to £480 for a consumer unit and meter tails? Presumably gold plated?

Every landlord in England is desperately trying to get EICRs done due to new incoming legislation. It's a goldmine.

[DanGPR]

1300 quid for a board change is heavy.

Even if that includes bonding the gas and water, has that been mentioned at all? On the EICR does it mention the gas and water bond sizes?

I recently did an RCBO board, in a flat including bonding the gas and water for around half that price. Feel free to drop me a DM if you wish to discuss.

[Alucidnation]

You could always do it yourself op?

Even cheaper!


Seriously, that does seem steep, so i am going with the fact he doesn't want to do it, and is probably making a killing on EICRs now.

(I am).

[Austin_Metro]

Alucidnation said:

You could always do it yourself op?

Even cheaper!


Seriously, that does seem steep, so i am going with the fact he doesn't want to do it, and is probably making a killing on EICRs now.

(I am).

I thought about 'having a go' but as the whole scheme is about electrical safety it seemed likely that an unskilled amateur would not be the answer!



ps ETA - I think they do want to do it, they are targeting this sector and can charge a decent whack in this market

Edited by Austin_Metro on Monday 14th September 20:55