Any electricians do electricity certs for rental properties?

[JapanRed]

Are there any electricians on here who do safety certs for rental properties?

Will the certificate fail if the board is plastic and not metal? House is 12 year old.

[turbospud]

its not an mot test,there is no pass or fail,just recomendations if it doesnt comply.
so no,plastic board would have been the current standard at the time

[JapanRed]

turbospud said:

its not an mot test,there is no pass or fail,just recomendations if it doesnt comply.
so no,plastic board would have been the current standard at the time

Thanks TurboSpud. So it would still comply with regulations even if it was plastic?

I think an electrician is trying to scam me here...

[CoolHands]

Mine passed and is plastic housing. About 15-20 years old I think.

[Yabu]

article said:

The inspection and testing should be carried out
at appropriate intervals in order to determine what, if anything, needs to be done to maintain the installation in a safe and serviceable condition. The results of the inspection and testing need to be clearly detailed in a report. Any observed damage, deterioration, defects, dangerous conditions and non-compliances with the requirements of the current edition of BS 7671 that may give rise to danger should be recorded and appropriately classified for remedial action.
It should be borne in mind that, as stated in the introduction to BS 7671, existing installations that have been constructed in accordance with earlier editions of the Standard may not comply with the current edition in every respect, but this does not necessarily mean that they are unsafe for continued use or require upgrading.
Electrical installation condition reporting: Classification Codes for domestic and similar electrical installations
The aim of this Guide is to provide practical guidance for skilled persons competent in electrical inspection and testing on the use of the Classification Codes that need to be attributed to each observation recorded during the periodic inspection and testing of an electrical installation for the benefit of the person ordering the report.
The guidance is limited to the range of observations that are likely to be associated with domestic and similar electrical installations. It takes into account the publication of Amendment 3 to BS 7671: 2008.

Page 16 and 17 cover plastic consumer units dependant upon location

Taken from https://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/media/120...


Non flame propagating Consumer units https://electrical.theiet.org/wiring-matters/years...

Edited by Yabu on Sunday 20th September 22:38

[dazwalsh]

Plastic should be fine, especially if RCD and no faults are found.

[JapanRed]

Thanks all. An electrician told me I needed to have a metal consumer unit which I agreed to. He’s charged £450 but I’ve since found out it wasn’t required so am going to withhold payment.

[CharlesElliott]

The 18th edition requires non-combustible CUs. An EICR should code that you have a plastic CU but not 'fail' because of it (unless there are other circumstances, like heat damage etc.)

[JapanRed]

CharlesElliott said:

The 18th edition requires non-combustible CUs. An EICR should code that you have a plastic CU but not 'fail' because of it (unless there are other circumstances, like heat damage etc.)

Thanks for this. He hasn’t put any C1/2/3 codes on he’s just charged me to change it having told me I needed a metal unit.

[Simpo Two]

JapanRed said:

Thanks all. An electrician told me I needed to have a metal consumer unit which I agreed to. He’s charged £450 but I’ve since found out it wasn’t required so am going to withhold payment.

However he's completed the contract with your approval so you could find yourself discussing it in court.

[JapanRed]

Simpo Two said:

JapanRed said:

Thanks all. An electrician told me I needed to have a metal consumer unit which I agreed to. He’s charged £450 but I’ve since found out it wasn’t required so am going to withhold payment.

However he's completed the contract with your approval so you could find yourself discussing it in court.

I’d love for him to try to convince a judge that the contract wasn’t formed through him lying to me.

[Mr Pointy]

Simpo Two said:

JapanRed said:

Thanks all. An electrician told me I needed to have a metal consumer unit which I agreed to. He’s charged £450 but I’ve since found out it wasn’t required so am going to withhold payment.

However he's completed the contract with your approval so you could find yourself discussing it in court.

He's on thin ice if he misrepresented the situation in order to get the contract to change the CU. Of course the OP has to prove he did that & if there isn't a C1 or C2 code on the report it might come down to hesaid/she said.

[dhutch]

As said, current regs (18th ed) require a new board to be metal, but there is no requirement to upgrade existing modern board, so if you have a 17th ed (twin rcd but might be plastic) or older 'split load' (sockets on an rcd, lights not) board then it should not be an issue. There are lots of past threads covering this.

Obviously there is a point you have to draw a line, and if its a bakelite board with manually re-wired fuses and no RCD then it wants replacing, and in effect having an RCD on the socket outlets is a requirement. However as said, even having the report in the first place is not a requirement, my parents were at one point actually advised not to have a condition report done as if it was shown to be unsafe that would put them in a worse condition. They did the report, because ignorance is a poor defence in court!

Sadly you now have an unnecessary new board fitted, however give it was fitted following misleading advice, I feel you are right to at least fight that fairly firmly. I would in your shoes push for material costs only (around £100 for the populated board) but perhaps settle for part payment of the £350 labour. Presumably there were no major issues requiring re-work elsewhere as part of the fitting.


Daniel

[JapanRed]

dhutch said:

As said, current regs (18th ed) require a new board to be metal, but there is no requirement to upgrade existing modern board, so if you have a 17th ed (twin rcd but might be plastic) or older 'split load' (sockets on an rcd, lights not) board then it should not be an issue. There are lots of past threads covering this.

Obviously there is a point you have to draw a line, and if its a bakelite board with manually re-wired fuses and no RCD then it wants replacing, and in effect having an RCD on the socket outlets is a requirement. However as said, even having the report in the first place is not a requirement, my parents were at one point actually advised not to have a condition report done as if it was shown to be unsafe that would put them in a worse condition. They did the report, because ignorance is a poor defence in court!

Sadly you now have an unnecessary new board fitted, however give it was fitted following misleading advice, I feel you are right to at least fight that fairly firmly. I would in your shoes push for material costs only (around £100 for the populated board) but perhaps settle for part payment of the £350 labour. Presumably there were no major issues requiring re-work elsewhere as part of the fitting.


Daniel

Thanks for the comprehensive advice Daniel. He also charged me £30 to change a light in the en-suite as he said that moisture could get in from shower etc. Again I trusted his judgement but am not an electrician so no idea whether this is true or not.

The only reason I have since found out about the CU is because he set the house alarm off whilst disconnecting the power. The tenant didn’t know the code so he just cut the wires to the alarm battery!!! Just left them cut too and didn’t even cover with electrical tape. He didn’t even tell me he had done it, it was the tenant that told me.

So I sent the pics of the cut wire to a mate who’s a part time electrician (not registered to do the EICR otherwise he’d have done it) who said that he didn’t think the CU needed replacing. Which has what’s uncovered all of this...

[dhutch]

Sounds like a tit of the highest order.

At very least unplug the alarm battery, ring you for the code, and or be up front about it.

I'm not an electrician, and the regs are potentially open to interpretation, but I can tell a tit from a competent human.

Daniel

[JapanRed]

Just had a response from the electrician;

With the 18th edition it states your fuse board must be metal that is the rules I follow!

Thoughts?

[Mr Pointy]

JapanRed said:

Just had a response from the electrician;

With the 18th edition it states your fuse board must be metal that is the rules I follow!

Thoughts?

He's wrong to apply 18th edition to all installations. The tests should be to the regulations in place at the time your installation was designed & installed. Even the .gov website says:

"Existing installations that have been installed in accordance with earlier editions of the Wiring Regulations may not comply with the 18th edition in every respect. This does not necessarily mean that they are unsafe for continued use or require upgrading"

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/electri...

The document linked to in an earlier post also indicates that a plastic CU should not be coded as a C1 or C2.

[KAgantua]

Not an electrician IMO - I wouldnt pay

[Alucidnation]

This a what happens when you employ 5 day wonders.

[JapanRed]

Alucidnation said:

This a what happens when you employ 5 day wonders.

If you don’t know an electrician personally it’s pretty difficult for someone who’s not in the trade to vet a tradesperson before they’ve done a job. There has to be an element of trust somewhere along the line.