John Guest Speedfit Any Good?
Discussion
I've got a project on that requires replumbing an old stone house
Hot, cold and central heating pipes
I fancy using the John Guest Speedfit stuff instead of copper
Any one used it and had any issues?
I'm looking at 28mm for the boiler feed and return and 15mm everywhere else
I'm a little concerned the JG website doesn't make it clear what temps this pipe will go up to
https://www.johnguest.com/speedfit/product/pipe/jg...
The part number seems to suggest a max temp on the end and 50C for the 28mm on a boiler is way too low!
Chat and technical help line are not working
Any one got a good supplier I could talk to?
Hot, cold and central heating pipes
I fancy using the John Guest Speedfit stuff instead of copper
Any one used it and had any issues?
I'm looking at 28mm for the boiler feed and return and 15mm everywhere else
I'm a little concerned the JG website doesn't make it clear what temps this pipe will go up to
https://www.johnguest.com/speedfit/product/pipe/jg...
The part number seems to suggest a max temp on the end and 50C for the 28mm on a boiler is way too low!
Chat and technical help line are not working
Any one got a good supplier I could talk to?
The first page of the Technical Guide states:
Cold Water: 20 deg C, 12 bar working pressure
Hot Water: 95C, 6 bar
Heating: 105C, 3 bar
https://www.johnguest.com/speedfit/wp-content/uplo...
The first meter from the boiler should be run in copper.
Fittings are lot bulkier than copper & a lot more expensive as well - a 15mm elbow is £1.15 for Speedfit, £1.60 for Hep2O & £0.74 for copper. It really adds up over a big system if you aren't making savings in labour costs.
The pipe expands a lot more than copper which sometimes I found could be an issue where there wasn't much float in the pipe run. It also doesn't like sideways pressure on a pipe into the joint & you can't just put a bit of a kink into a pipe like you can with copper. The Speedfit conntectors are easier to demount than Hep2O as the latter requires use of a release key which can be very arkward in tight spaces.
I used it where i was making changes to a heating system but I'm not sure what I would do if I were doing an entire system.
Cold Water: 20 deg C, 12 bar working pressure
Hot Water: 95C, 6 bar
Heating: 105C, 3 bar
https://www.johnguest.com/speedfit/wp-content/uplo...
The first meter from the boiler should be run in copper.
Fittings are lot bulkier than copper & a lot more expensive as well - a 15mm elbow is £1.15 for Speedfit, £1.60 for Hep2O & £0.74 for copper. It really adds up over a big system if you aren't making savings in labour costs.
The pipe expands a lot more than copper which sometimes I found could be an issue where there wasn't much float in the pipe run. It also doesn't like sideways pressure on a pipe into the joint & you can't just put a bit of a kink into a pipe like you can with copper. The Speedfit conntectors are easier to demount than Hep2O as the latter requires use of a release key which can be very arkward in tight spaces.
I used it where i was making changes to a heating system but I'm not sure what I would do if I were doing an entire system.
Loads of houses have it without any more issues than would come with copper. The main people who seem to be against the stuff these days are plumbers who like the labour bill that goes with a full copper install but I’m yet to hear a convincing argument on it.... end of the day it’s an approved product that home insurance companies are happy with.
It has its uses. Hot and cold domestic water at a push but definitely not for heating.
It looks awful.
The fittings are the size of a small country.
Rodents find it very agreeable as a snack.
It promotes corrosion in heating systems.
It is a DIY product.
If you want something that is quick to install, requires the brain power of an Essex girl who dropped out of school to take up a career on Instagram and will cost more yet perform worse than copper then it is the product for you.
The idea of being able to take advantage of long bendy pipe runs, one that makes copper run off and hide, is a nice one. That’s why there is a product that has the performance qualities of copper and the installation speed of plastic - MLCP.
It looks awful.
The fittings are the size of a small country.
Rodents find it very agreeable as a snack.
It promotes corrosion in heating systems.
It is a DIY product.
If you want something that is quick to install, requires the brain power of an Essex girl who dropped out of school to take up a career on Instagram and will cost more yet perform worse than copper then it is the product for you.
The idea of being able to take advantage of long bendy pipe runs, one that makes copper run off and hide, is a nice one. That’s why there is a product that has the performance qualities of copper and the installation speed of plastic - MLCP.
I've used it on a few DIY jobs with no issues.
Well I say that: one of my joints the other week was very difficult to access, I didn't push the pipe all the way home, looked to be a good fit but I got lazy and didn't properly check it, woke up the next day to a large drip coming through my hallway ceiling.
Easily remedied and not the kind of mistake you make twice. Use the insert collars to ensure a good fit.
However, if I was doing a complete install on an old stone property I would be tempted to go for copper, purely for the fun/satisfaction of soldering without risking burning the place down. As a DIY-er I've always gone with push fit as a compromise, because the jobs I've had to do have all been in tricky locations on existing install where waving a blowtorch around could cause me more headaches as a layman. I'd love to have a crack at a 'green field' project where there is little or no risk of burning my own house down!
My pal has about 30 BTL properties where he generally install new kitchens and bathrooms when he buys them, he won't use anything but Speedfit and has never had an issue.
Well I say that: one of my joints the other week was very difficult to access, I didn't push the pipe all the way home, looked to be a good fit but I got lazy and didn't properly check it, woke up the next day to a large drip coming through my hallway ceiling.
Easily remedied and not the kind of mistake you make twice. Use the insert collars to ensure a good fit.
However, if I was doing a complete install on an old stone property I would be tempted to go for copper, purely for the fun/satisfaction of soldering without risking burning the place down. As a DIY-er I've always gone with push fit as a compromise, because the jobs I've had to do have all been in tricky locations on existing install where waving a blowtorch around could cause me more headaches as a layman. I'd love to have a crack at a 'green field' project where there is little or no risk of burning my own house down!
My pal has about 30 BTL properties where he generally install new kitchens and bathrooms when he buys them, he won't use anything but Speedfit and has never had an issue.
ST12AT said:
It looks awful.
The fittings are the size of a small country.
Rodents find it very agreeable as a snack.
It promotes corrosion in heating systems.
It is a DIY product.
Those are the usual arguments against the stuff from the plumbers!The fittings are the size of a small country.
Rodents find it very agreeable as a snack.
It promotes corrosion in heating systems.
It is a DIY product.
1) it shouldn’t ever be visible on a tidy install!
2) true, that’s a problem for the installer tho
3)probably the most valid argument imo, maybe not much of a concern on a full refurb if the ground floor rad pipework drops down the walls and there’s nothing in the loft. Definitely worth bearing in mind and planning the runs for.
4) I guess you mean pulling air through the pipe wall? Surely after the system is pressurised above atmospheric pressure unless there’s a leak no air can possibly enter the system through the pipe wall? (Can see how it might be an issue on old f&e heating systems tho)
5) it’s installed in the majority of new builds on sites where people have to have their cscs cards to work!
For me it by the time it’s installed it ends up so much cheaper than full copper there’s no real decision.
Yeah, no real problems with it on my refurb either and makes it very easy for a DIYer. If you do need to have some runs or tails where it can be seen its easy enough to switch to copper and use Techtite Sprint copper push-fits. They look better and don’t take up the same space as a Speedfit.
ST12AT said:
It looks awful.
Looks? It's not being used to its full potential if you can see it. Our house is 95% plastic pushfit and it's all hidden within the fabric of the building. Even the radiators where you might often see copper pipes sticking out of the floor our plastic piping is all hidden behind and discretely enters the tails without being seen. Nothing on show, nothing to catch the hoover.I hate these threads. Nothing new is ever brought to the table (and yes, that includes my contributions also). To the OP: spare us all the grief and do a bit of Googling - your question, and the wider subject, has been done to death.
Edited by MJNewton on Friday 6th November 21:27
Black_S3 said:
Those are the usual arguments against the stuff from the plumbers!
1) it shouldn’t ever be visible on a tidy install!
2) true, that’s a problem for the installer tho
3)probably the most valid argument imo, maybe not much of a concern on a full refurb if the ground floor rad pipework drops down the walls and there’s nothing in the loft. Definitely worth bearing in mind and planning the runs for.
4) I guess you mean pulling air through the pipe wall? Surely after the system is pressurised above atmospheric pressure unless there’s a leak no air can possibly enter the system through the pipe wall? (Can see how it might be an issue on old f&e heating systems tho)
5) it’s installed in the majority of new builds on sites where people have to have their cscs cards to work!
For me it by the time it’s installed it ends up so much cheaper than full copper there’s no real decision.
I’m not a plumber...1) it shouldn’t ever be visible on a tidy install!
2) true, that’s a problem for the installer tho
3)probably the most valid argument imo, maybe not much of a concern on a full refurb if the ground floor rad pipework drops down the walls and there’s nothing in the loft. Definitely worth bearing in mind and planning the runs for.
4) I guess you mean pulling air through the pipe wall? Surely after the system is pressurised above atmospheric pressure unless there’s a leak no air can possibly enter the system through the pipe wall? (Can see how it might be an issue on old f&e heating systems tho)
5) it’s installed in the majority of new builds on sites where people have to have their cscs cards to work!
For me it by the time it’s installed it ends up so much cheaper than full copper there’s no real decision.
If I can see it when I install it, it is visible. I don’t care if it ends up behind a wall or under a floor.
My biggest gripe with it is that it’s a product created to speed up and dumb down a skilled profession. I’m an artist, not a site basher.
New homes, where pushfit plastic is king, are just awful. Poorly designed, poorly built, poorly finished all by people who rush rush rush and don’t care. A CSCS card is little more than a result of being able to spell your name correctly, only once mind.
I've replumbed my entire bungalow in it. Copper had rotted in the concrete floor (for the 2nd time), run all new hot/cold water and central heating through the loft. No issues at all over the past 3 years. As mentioned above, the collets around the collars are good to make idiot proof and allow you to identify hot/cold.
Individual fittings are quite expensive in comparison to copper fittings, pipe runs are cheaper on the "spool" than individual cut lengths. So make sure you bulk buy fittings and get good at straightening out the pipe without kinking it.
Fitting takes 1/4 of the time than copper which was the main attraction. I dread to think how long soldering lengths of copper and measuring fittings would have taken across the entire house. There is an element of urgency you can get away with when fitting plastic, whilst still maintaining a good standard of work. All you need is some pipe cutters and you can tweak as you go the lengths of pipe required without being to precise in your measurements for example.
It does look a bit unsightly if you rush, you will need to use more pipe holding fittings (when you fit, always use more, when the pipe warms it softens and is more malleable so needs more security) than a length of copper straight but 99% of the time it's out of sight anyway. Having had copper leak from the floor, and it looking like this is the 2nd time it's been replaced in my house, I now don't need to worry about it rotting again. It's also peace of mind that I don't need to worry about leaking at fittings/extensions either as each plastic run is uninterrupted from start to finish point on straight runs, even in some cases around corners.
Since fitting it's been easy to tap into, I've added a few rads into the kitchen and had to alter/extend some of the pipework to fit the new kitchen/bathroom etc so this has made life much easier too. Only place I've used copper off the boiler into the loft and coming out of the walls to the rads for aesthetics. I'd use it again no qualms at all - majority use is JG for all pipe fittings and some floplast pipe runs/inserts.
Individual fittings are quite expensive in comparison to copper fittings, pipe runs are cheaper on the "spool" than individual cut lengths. So make sure you bulk buy fittings and get good at straightening out the pipe without kinking it.
Fitting takes 1/4 of the time than copper which was the main attraction. I dread to think how long soldering lengths of copper and measuring fittings would have taken across the entire house. There is an element of urgency you can get away with when fitting plastic, whilst still maintaining a good standard of work. All you need is some pipe cutters and you can tweak as you go the lengths of pipe required without being to precise in your measurements for example.
It does look a bit unsightly if you rush, you will need to use more pipe holding fittings (when you fit, always use more, when the pipe warms it softens and is more malleable so needs more security) than a length of copper straight but 99% of the time it's out of sight anyway. Having had copper leak from the floor, and it looking like this is the 2nd time it's been replaced in my house, I now don't need to worry about it rotting again. It's also peace of mind that I don't need to worry about leaking at fittings/extensions either as each plastic run is uninterrupted from start to finish point on straight runs, even in some cases around corners.
Since fitting it's been easy to tap into, I've added a few rads into the kitchen and had to alter/extend some of the pipework to fit the new kitchen/bathroom etc so this has made life much easier too. Only place I've used copper off the boiler into the loft and coming out of the walls to the rads for aesthetics. I'd use it again no qualms at all - majority use is JG for all pipe fittings and some floplast pipe runs/inserts.
Edited by Classy6 on Saturday 7th November 11:14
Classy6 said:
I've replumbed my entire bungalow in it. Copper had rotted in the concrete floor (for the 2nd time), run all new hot/cold water and central heating through the loft. No issues at all over the past 3 years. As mentioned above, the collets around the collars are good to make idiot proof and allow you to identify hot/cold.
Individual fittings are quite expensive in comparison to copper fittings, pipe runs are cheaper on the "spool" than individual cut lengths. So make sure you bulk buy fittings and get good at straightening out the pipe without kinking it.
Fitting takes 1/4 of the time than copper which was the main attraction. I dread to think how long soldering lengths of copper and measuring fittings would have taken across the entire house. There is an element of urgency you can get away with when fitting plastic, whilst still maintaining a good standard of work. All you need is some pipe cutters and you can tweak as you go the lengths of pipe required without being to precise in your measurements for example.
It does look a bit unsightly if you rush, you will need to use more pipe holding fittings than a length of copper straight but 99% of the time it's out of sight anyway. Having had copper leak from the floor, and it looking like this is the 2nd time it's been replaced in my house, I now don't need to worry about it rotting again. It's also peace of mind that I don't need to worry about leaking at fittings/extensions either as each plastic run is uninterrupted from start to finish point on straight runs, even in some cases around corners.
Since fitting it's been easy to tap into, I've added a few rads into the kitchen and had to alter/extend some of the pipework to fit the new kitchen/bathroom etc so this has made life much easier too. Only place I've used copper off the boiler into the loft and coming out of the walls to the rads for aesthetics.
And this is why it is so popular. It means the average Joe at home can turn his hand to plumbing (I am in no way against that at all). Individual fittings are quite expensive in comparison to copper fittings, pipe runs are cheaper on the "spool" than individual cut lengths. So make sure you bulk buy fittings and get good at straightening out the pipe without kinking it.
Fitting takes 1/4 of the time than copper which was the main attraction. I dread to think how long soldering lengths of copper and measuring fittings would have taken across the entire house. There is an element of urgency you can get away with when fitting plastic, whilst still maintaining a good standard of work. All you need is some pipe cutters and you can tweak as you go the lengths of pipe required without being to precise in your measurements for example.
It does look a bit unsightly if you rush, you will need to use more pipe holding fittings than a length of copper straight but 99% of the time it's out of sight anyway. Having had copper leak from the floor, and it looking like this is the 2nd time it's been replaced in my house, I now don't need to worry about it rotting again. It's also peace of mind that I don't need to worry about leaking at fittings/extensions either as each plastic run is uninterrupted from start to finish point on straight runs, even in some cases around corners.
Since fitting it's been easy to tap into, I've added a few rads into the kitchen and had to alter/extend some of the pipework to fit the new kitchen/bathroom etc so this has made life much easier too. Only place I've used copper off the boiler into the loft and coming out of the walls to the rads for aesthetics.
I'll have to pull you up on the "maintaining a good standard of work". It is an acceptable minimal standard of work. There is not an example anywhere where push fit can be a good standard and side by side with copper it would be like comparing a Vauxhall Nova to a *insert any other car here*. They both do the same thing (to an extent) and lots of people would be happy with the former....
The speed thing is purely DIY. I guarantee I can fit copper to a much better standard and at the same speed as you can fit push fit. That isn't a dig at you but a reality of a professional vs. an amateur.
I get why it is used but it is the bottom of the market when it comes to pipe and fittings. There is a reason why new build homes are sold with on going snag lists and push fit is one of those reasons.
MJNewton said:
Looks? It's not being used to its full potential if you can see it. Our house is 95% plastic pushfit and it's all hidden within the fabric of the building. Even the radiators where you might often see copper pipes sticking out of the floor our plastic piping is all hidden behind and discretely enters the tails without being seen. Nothing on show, nothing to catch the hoover
Any chance you could explain or post a picture of how the rad piping has been done so you don't have vertical tails coming up from the floor? I can see how it can be done dropping 10mm down from above & exiting into a back box but how do you do it on the first floor if the runs are under the floor? Do you channel up behind the skirting?Gassing Station | Homes, Gardens and DIY | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff