Certificate of Regularisation for Loft Conversion

[D1bram]

I'm in the process of buying a property which has had a loft conversion which I'm certain would not comply with building regs. The listing has it as 'a converted loft which is sure to be of appeal for a variety of uses' or words to that effect, it is not included in the bedroom count.

Long term we would look to convert the loft properly and extend over the garage, but in the short term we would indeed find the space useful as is.

My solicitor has raised the issue and asked that the vendor either produces a building regs cert or attains a certificate of regularisation, an indemnity is deemed not to be suitable in this case.

I think this means that the vendor would need to put it back to a standard loft and I have asked my solicitor to confirm this.

I would very much NOT like that to happen and I would like to buy the house as is, as stated we have longer term plans and I have my eyes open to what I'm buying. Appreciate though this might be a sticking point for both my insurers and mortgage provider.

It's not a hugely unusual situation though, I see loads of houses with lofts which are 'not a bedroom' but clearly are on rightmove - anyone experience or advice on this please?

[Countdown]

I stand to be corrected but.

1. I dont think it's a requirement for the vendor to "remove" the loft conversion. It's just a certificate to confirm it's OK/legal/compliant

2. You can tell your Solicitor that you're happy to buy, even without a BC/CoR, and that you accept any risks. He can't block the purchase.

[rah1888]

Countdown said:

2. You can tell your Solicitor that you're happy to buy, even without a BC/CoR, and that you accept any risks. He can't block the purchase.

If there is a lender involved the solicitor will almost certainly act for them too, so whilst an indivdual may be happy to accept risk associated with lack of appropriate paperwork the lender probably won't.

[smokey mow]

Put simply a regularisation is a retrospective application.

With such an application the onus is on the owner to demonstrate to the council that the works comply. This is typically done either by opening up the works for inspection and/or with photos taken at the time the works were completed. If sufficient evidence is provided and everything looks ok to the surveyor then a regularisation certificate will be issued. Any defects are the responsibility of the owner to rectify. In exceptional cases the council may use there option to take enforcement action against the property owner if they consider it to be dangerous.

As a buyer it’s your choice as to whether you buy with or without the correct certification. But note carefully my use of the word owner above because on purchase you become legally responsible for the property and its issues. any future issues or enforcement by the council would be taken against you as the owner and not the previous owner who did the works. (Edit to add, if the property is mortgaged then the owner would also include your lender).

If you’re planning to do works then none of this really matters so long as you submit an application at the right time and correct any old works to the satisfaction of the surveyor.

[rah1888]

Any idea when the work would have taken place? The more recent it is the more important the paperworkn becomes.

If it was 30 years ago building regs certificates become far less relevant.

[Little Lofty]

It will be impossible to get a regularisation certificate if it’s just a boarded out loft with plasterboard walls and ceilings. 9 times out of 10 it’s easier to pull it all out and start again, it is probably no where near complying with regs. Many houses sell in this condition and at least it’s not being classed as a habitable room so you aren’t paying for it.

[paulwirral]

It's clean storage space surely ? Or that's what I've always classed it as when I've sold houses like that .

[paulrockliffe]

paulwirral said:

It's clean storage space surely ? Or that's what I've always classed it as when I've sold houses like that .

If it has stairs then it's almost certainly habitable space, which brings all sorts of potential legal risk, both to the purchaser and anyone acting for them. Low risk, but potentially high consequence type stuff.

Worse case, a third party dies asleep in the loft room due to a fire, the insurance company void the policy and leave the OP at the mercy of the third party's dependent's solicitors while the mortgage company demand immediate repayment and no one else will lend him a penny.

Declared bankrupt, as a last roll of the dice the OP asks his Solicitor why they didn't point any of this out to him and that ends up in a complaint to the SRA and the Solicitor struck off.

[D1bram]

Thanks everyone for the input, this is the house in question - it has fixed stairs from one of the bedrooms, I'm fairly certain it's not going to comply with building regs;

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/86040586#/

We plan to extend over the garage (one of the neighbouring properties had planning approved last year) and convert the loft correctly at the same time, might need to hip to gable to main roof then have hipped roof for the set back extension into the gable end if you see what I mean.

Not planning on doing the above immediately however as I won't have enough cash left over, so probably a project for 18months to 2 years time.

I have no idea when the conversion was done, it could exceed 30years I suppose, but no real way of knowing for sure.

[paulwirral]

paulrockliffe said:

paulwirral said:

It's clean storage space surely ? Or that's what I've always classed it as when I've sold houses like that .

If it has stairs then it's almost certainly habitable space, which brings all sorts of potential legal risk, both to the purchaser and anyone acting for them. Low risk, but potentially high consequence type stuff.

Worse case, a third party dies asleep in the loft room due to a fire, the insurance company void the policy and leave the OP at the mercy of the third party's dependent's solicitors while the mortgage company demand immediate repayment and no one else will lend him a penny.

Declared bankrupt, as a last roll of the dice the OP asks his Solicitor why they didn't point any of this out to him and that ends up in a complaint to the SRA and the Solicitor struck off.

Op has already pointed out he wants to buy the house regardless then include a loft conversion in his new works , hence it's clean storage space in my opinion to get it bought without hold ups .
Whenever I've sold a house with a boarded clean storage space that's exactly what it's been , no heating or electric, what the new owner does with it is their business.
I'm not a rule and regulations man , I tend to take the easy route to get the results I need and not over complicate things .

[D1bram]

paulwirral said:

paulrockliffe said:

paulwirral said:

It's clean storage space surely ? Or that's what I've always classed it as when I've sold houses like that .

If it has stairs then it's almost certainly habitable space, which brings all sorts of potential legal risk, both to the purchaser and anyone acting for them. Low risk, but potentially high consequence type stuff.

Worse case, a third party dies asleep in the loft room due to a fire, the insurance company void the policy and leave the OP at the mercy of the third party's dependent's solicitors while the mortgage company demand immediate repayment and no one else will lend him a penny.

Declared bankrupt, as a last roll of the dice the OP asks his Solicitor why they didn't point any of this out to him and that ends up in a complaint to the SRA and the Solicitor struck off.

Op has already pointed out he wants to buy the house regardless then include a loft conversion in his new works , hence it's clean storage space in my opinion to get it bought without hold ups .
Whenever I've sold a house with a boarded clean storage space that's exactly what it's been , no heating or electric, what the new owner does with it is their business.
I'm not a rule and regulations man , I tend to take the easy route to get the results I need and not over complicate things .

Problem is it has a fixed stair, electric, heating etc... I've posted the link above.

It doesn't bother me at all, I'm buying the house as a three bed semi and under no illusion that this is a 'bedroom' in terms of the value of the house. However it's useful space for the kids for now, even if they use it as lounge area and I'd rather buy as is than have the vendor forced to change it back to a loft.

Survey was done today and I've just had a quick call with the surveyor - from a lending point of view it's no issue, he also said that rather than being loft it's more a mezzanine to the bedroom and he'd be less concerned about fire escape etc...

[paulrockliffe]

paulwirral said:

Op has already pointed out he wants to buy the house regardless then include a loft conversion in his new works , hence it's clean storage space in my opinion to get it bought without hold ups .
Whenever I've sold a house with a boarded clean storage space that's exactly what it's been , no heating or electric, what the new owner does with it is their business.
I'm not a rule and regulations man , I tend to take the easy route to get the results I need and not over complicate things .

Sure, I wasn't really addressing the OPs situation directly, just expanding on what the risks are when other people's views become relevant and why you can expect Solicitors and Surveyors to cause you problems.

OP - there are issues with that conversion that may cause you problems. There's no floor plan so I can't see if they're solvable or not. You can't easily bring the stairs down into a room like that.

Assuming that the original converters would have preferred to not have the stairs inside another room, that implies there isn't an easy location for them elsewhere. Realistically you're looking at losing a chunk of another room, or there may simply be nowhere to put compliant stairs. They need 2m of headroom, which limits options.

As it is, with a bed up there it's a death-trap in a fire.

[D1bram]

paulrockliffe said:

paulwirral said:

Op has already pointed out he wants to buy the house regardless then include a loft conversion in his new works , hence it's clean storage space in my opinion to get it bought without hold ups .
Whenever I've sold a house with a boarded clean storage space that's exactly what it's been , no heating or electric, what the new owner does with it is their business.
I'm not a rule and regulations man , I tend to take the easy route to get the results I need and not over complicate things .

Sure, I wasn't really addressing the OPs situation directly, just expanding on what the risks are when other people's views become relevant and why you can expect Solicitors and Surveyors to cause you problems.

OP - there are issues with that conversion that may cause you problems. There's no floor plan so I can't see if they're solvable or not. You can't easily bring the stairs down into a room like that.

Assuming that the original converters would have preferred to not have the stairs inside another room, that implies there isn't an easy location for them elsewhere. Realistically you're looking at losing a chunk of another room, or there may simply be nowhere to put compliant stairs. They need 2m of headroom, which limits options.

As it is, with a bed up there it's a death-trap in a fire.

As it stands, you couldn't take stairs up elsewhere no, but with a hip to gable conversion I'm fairly sure we will be able to get a double winder in above the main staircase as is common with 30s semis.

I understand that the previous owner converted it to how it is for his kids himself, so I'm guessing didn't want to go to the considerable expense of hip to gable (I'm actually hoping that the roof of the extension provides just enough head room without hip to gable, purely from an aesthetic point of view). Ultimately, if it is a no go then we will make do with an additional bedroom over the garage as that's all we need, would just be nice to have a guest bedroom.

I'm not sure I agree it's a death trap, the occupant wouldn't really be at any more risk than the person in the back bedroom - so yes a fire in that room is an issue, but it's not at the risk level of the kitchen for example. Happy to learn differently though

[paulrockliffe]

D1bram said:

Survey was done today and I've just had a quick call with the surveyor - from a lending point of view it's no issue, he also said that rather than being loft it's more a mezzanine to the bedroom and he'd be less concerned about fire escape etc...

You've got properly lucky there, will be interesting to see how much of that is put in writing. It's clearly comes under the Council's definition of a habitable room and a mezzanine in that location is subject to the same Building Regs as a habitable space anyway.

[D1bram]

paulrockliffe said:

D1bram said:

Survey was done today and I've just had a quick call with the surveyor - from a lending point of view it's no issue, he also said that rather than being loft it's more a mezzanine to the bedroom and he'd be less concerned about fire escape etc...

You've got properly lucky there, will be interesting to see how much of that is put in writing. It's clearly comes under the Council's definition of a habitable room and a mezzanine in that location is subject to the same Building Regs as a habitable space anyway.

Yeah I probably have, he suggested all the mortgage company are interested in is the value!

As I say, we will be sorting it, but unlikely to have the cash left to do it all straight away, we might have enough to perhaps sort just the loft, depends on the sale of my partners house