Slightly different electrics question (block of flats)
Discussion
This is probably one for the older electricians out there (or someone with sub station experience?).
We live in a block of flats that were built in the late 1950's (we believe) - said flats were built by the electricity board at the time (for their employees) and we have a sub station building adjacent to the block, about 15M away.
There is a utility room in the basement which is the main ingress point for the (very, very old) electrics for the entire block.
Now - before anyone says I have no intention of messing with this - I am just looking for info.
There are 9 individual cables entering via the floor - these are obviously for the individual flats.
To the left of these is a green box with a single cable coming out of the floor - I think this might be 3 phase due to the thickness of the cable (not thick enough to power 9 flats but thick enough to be 100A 3 phase??) - and I don't believe it powers the individual flat.
This cable feeds into a large box with a handle (switch) across the front - where it goes after that I don't know.
Anyway! On to my question...
We (the management company) suspect that this installation requires checking / upgrading - and we would like to know if a regular electrician can tackle this - or do we need someone from the power grid people?
The consumer unit has obviously been upgraded in the past.
One of the flat owners recently had their CU replaced, and of course that required the power to be cut to that flat - and the electrician was somewhat reluctant to touch anything in this room.
Pictures below for the curious.
For the even more curious.. The three black boxes above the CU are old clockwork / mechanical timers for the stairwell lighting, which is activated by a button press adjacent to each flat door (it looks like a doorbell!).
We live in a block of flats that were built in the late 1950's (we believe) - said flats were built by the electricity board at the time (for their employees) and we have a sub station building adjacent to the block, about 15M away.
There is a utility room in the basement which is the main ingress point for the (very, very old) electrics for the entire block.
Now - before anyone says I have no intention of messing with this - I am just looking for info.
There are 9 individual cables entering via the floor - these are obviously for the individual flats.
To the left of these is a green box with a single cable coming out of the floor - I think this might be 3 phase due to the thickness of the cable (not thick enough to power 9 flats but thick enough to be 100A 3 phase??) - and I don't believe it powers the individual flat.
This cable feeds into a large box with a handle (switch) across the front - where it goes after that I don't know.
Anyway! On to my question...
We (the management company) suspect that this installation requires checking / upgrading - and we would like to know if a regular electrician can tackle this - or do we need someone from the power grid people?
The consumer unit has obviously been upgraded in the past.
One of the flat owners recently had their CU replaced, and of course that required the power to be cut to that flat - and the electrician was somewhat reluctant to touch anything in this room.
Pictures below for the curious.
For the even more curious.. The three black boxes above the CU are old clockwork / mechanical timers for the stairwell lighting, which is activated by a button press adjacent to each flat door (it looks like a doorbell!).
Edited by TonyRPH on Thursday 5th August 10:21
TonyRPH said:
I'm no spark but jesus, shouldn't that middle box have a cover over it?? I can imagine the 1980's health and safety reconstruction video of the bloke in his pajamas going down to reset the light breaker, missing it then doing the "volts dance" followed by the overly dramatic voiceover...Some Gump said:
I'm no spark but jesus, shouldn't that middle box have a cover over it?? I can imagine the 1980's health and safety reconstruction video of the bloke in his pajamas going down to reset the light breaker, missing it then doing the "volts dance" followed by the overly dramatic voiceover...
You are correct - and this is one of the reasons why this electrical installation has been flagged for review.I'm not an electrician but that green box does look like three phase to me - I would assume the colours signify the phases. Maybe it was put in to future proof or something? I can't remember the name of the organisation but I'd be trying to get the folks who own before the meter to come out and take a look. They are normally pretty on the ball if you give them a call.
Where are the flats metered? The meters and anything upstream of it will be property of the Regional Electricity Company.
The green box is there for glanding the incoming mains cable which looks to be 3 phase due to the size of it. The isolator above it (with the handle) probably isolates the distribution board on top of the trunking from the mains. The individual flats may be fed from fuses inside that distribution board.
All looks property of the REC to me as I can’t see any metering apart from the one under the new consumer unit. It does state that the fuses are property of YEB which will now be Northern Power Grid.
The green box is there for glanding the incoming mains cable which looks to be 3 phase due to the size of it. The isolator above it (with the handle) probably isolates the distribution board on top of the trunking from the mains. The individual flats may be fed from fuses inside that distribution board.
All looks property of the REC to me as I can’t see any metering apart from the one under the new consumer unit. It does state that the fuses are property of YEB which will now be Northern Power Grid.
FRG0 said:
Where are the flats metered? The meters and anything upstream of it will be property of the Regional Electricity Company.
The flats are metered individually in each flat. The meter is installed locally adjacent to the CU.FRG0 said:
The green box is there for glanding the incoming mains cable which looks to be 3 phase due to the size of it. The isolator above it (with the handle) probably isolates the distribution board on top of the trunking from the mains. The individual flats may be fed from fuses inside that distribution board.
So the 9 cables going down to the floor are actually feeds out to the flats, rather than from the sub station? That would make more sense.I guess then that throwing that large switch would cut power to all flats then?
FRG0 said:
All looks property of the REC to me as I can’t see any metering apart from the one under the new consumer unit. It does state that the fuses are property of YEB which will now be Northern Power Grid.
So it looks as though any upgrades (if deemed necessary) will need to be carried out by Northern Power Grid.And REC? Retail Energy Company?
buggalugs said:
Could it be the other way around - the 3 phase is the one entering, the 9 individuals going off under the floor to each flat? Under the big rusty dist. board cover would be the isolation for each flat. Just an idea. Probs best getting a sparky to look at it really 
It seems as though you are correct.And yes - we do need a sparky to look at it - I was just trying to establish if a 'domestic' sparky could look at it or whether I would need the local grid company to look at it - and it would appear to be the latter.
Edited by TonyRPH on Thursday 5th August 13:43
TonyRPH said:
FRG0 said:
Where are the flats metered? The meters and anything upstream of it will be property of the Regional Electricity Company.
The flats are metered individually in each flat. The meter is installed locally adjacent to the CU.FRG0 said:
The green box is there for glanding the incoming mains cable which looks to be 3 phase due to the size of it. The isolator above it (with the handle) probably isolates the distribution board on top of the trunking from the mains. The individual flats may be fed from fuses inside that distribution board.
So the 9 cables going down to the floor are actually feeds out to the flats, rather than from the sub station? That would make more sense.I guess then that throwing that large switch would cut power to all flats then?
FRG0 said:
All looks property of the REC to me as I can’t see any metering apart from the one under the new consumer unit. It does state that the fuses are property of YEB which will now be Northern Power Grid.
So it looks as though any upgrades (if deemed necessary) will need to be carried out by Northern Power Grid.And REC? Retail Energy Company?
buggalugs said:
Could it be the other way around - the 3 phase is the one entering, the 9 individuals going off under the floor to each flat? Under the big rusty dist. board cover would be the isolation for each flat. Just an idea. Probs best getting a sparky to look at it really
It seems as though you are correct.And yes - we do need a sparky to look at it - I was just trying to establish if a 'domestic' sparky could look at it or whether I would need the local grid company to look at it - and it would appear to be the latter.
Edited by TonyRPH on Thursday 5th August 13:43
As the flats are metered individually the REC (Regional Electricity Company, as you thought), will own the incomer and distribution section in that basement.
Mr Pointy said:
Unscrew the covers of the horizontal grey trunking & you'll be able to see which way the cabling to the 9 cables goes.
It's quite safe to do. Probably.
I shall give that a miss thanks!It's quite safe to do. Probably.
Electronics and low voltage stuff I can do, but I have a healthy respect for electricity.
I have a very similar set up to your green box at my place in London - mine is not green though! We have 3 phase coming in, but only one of the phases (at the top of the green thing) is connected to anything in the house.
I wondered about this overengineered set up until I found a photo of my place in the 1950s - the back garden was a light industrial unit.
I wondered about this overengineered set up until I found a photo of my place in the 1950s - the back garden was a light industrial unit.
Another take, the old single cable is now redundant, the 9 cables coming out from the floor are the DNO's and these go off to the individual flats for metering. I wouldn't go taking covers off or poking around TBH, get the DNO out to confirm what is going on. Whatever, that box without a cover is a no no if it's live!!
I live in a block of 1960s flats. 8 in the block. A three-phase cable comes into a distribution box and 8 individual single phase cables go from it to the flats. Each flat has a 100A cutout which then connects to the meter, and the meter then connects to the consumer unit.
What you have seems like an overly complicated setup!
What you have seems like an overly complicated setup!
matchmaker said:
I live in a block of 1960s flats. 8 in the block. A three-phase cable comes into a distribution box and 8 individual single phase cables go from it to the flats. Each flat has a 100A cutout which then connects to the meter, and the meter then connects to the consumer unit.
What you have seems like an overly complicated setup!
Yours sounds almost identical to ours but perhaps it's been updated at some point?What you have seems like an overly complicated setup!
It sounds as though your 100A fuses have been relocated (or were originally) installed into each individual flat, where ours are down in the utility room behind the smaller grey box.
In our flat, you can see the incoming cable below (thick white cable bottom right), which connects to the meter and then on to the CU.
LordLoveLength said:
I’d be wary of anyone messing with that other than the distribution company. It possibly / probably contains asbestos and as a property management company you may have a liability to ensure it is safely removed.
Maybe send photos to them?
Based off the info provided in this thread, sending the distribution company some pictures is the next step.Maybe send photos to them?
Cable below the green cut out is the incomer feeding the whole building, cables to the right off to the flats. Isolator above it will shut off entire building but I'd advise against pressing it - switchgear of that age doesn't always like to go back in! Above that is the individual fuses to each flat, be aware there 400v between phases here.
It's old and crappy but not remarkable, a lot of network stuff is pre war and the attitude today is to wait until it falls down then replace it (ceo of the Americans that bought us in the late 90s). This stuff does go decades without someone qualified looking it over which sounds bad but 99% of issues are related to a f
kwit fiddling with it.
If it bothers you flag it with them and ask for a safety check and tell them you need something in writing.
It's old and crappy but not remarkable, a lot of network stuff is pre war and the attitude today is to wait until it falls down then replace it (ceo of the Americans that bought us in the late 90s). This stuff does go decades without someone qualified looking it over which sounds bad but 99% of issues are related to a f
kwit fiddling with it.If it bothers you flag it with them and ask for a safety check and tell them you need something in writing.
KnackeredOldBanger said:
The management company don't have a duty to ensure that it is removed, they have a duty to ensure that the risk is managed.
We (collective owners) are the management company - the flat owners (of which I am one) are the management company - hence the reason for this topic.Teddy Lop said:
Cable below the green cut out is the incomer feeding the whole building, cables to the right off to the flats. Isolator above it will shut off entire building but I'd advise against pressing it - switchgear of that age doesn't always like to go back in! Above that is the individual fuses to each flat, be aware there 400v between phases here.
It's old and crappy but not remarkable, a lot of network stuff is pre war and the attitude today is to wait until it falls down then replace it (ceo of the Americans that bought us in the late 90s). This stuff does go decades without someone qualified looking it over which sounds bad but 99% of issues are related to a fkwit fiddling with it.
If it bothers you flag it with them and ask for a safety check and tell them you need something in writing.
Thanks - as I said earlier, I definitely won't be going near this.It's old and crappy but not remarkable, a lot of network stuff is pre war and the attitude today is to wait until it falls down then replace it (ceo of the Americans that bought us in the late 90s). This stuff does go decades without someone qualified looking it over which sounds bad but 99% of issues are related to a f
kwit fiddling with it.If it bothers you flag it with them and ask for a safety check and tell them you need something in writing.
The subject was raised in a recent management meeting, as there may be a requirement for some flats to be rewired, which of course will necessitate the isolation of the incoming mains to facilitate the replace of the ancient consumer units.
As I also mentioned earlier, one of the flats was recently rewired, and the electrician who did must have replaced the CU on a live circuit as he was reluctant to touch any of this old switchgear (and if I'm not mistaken - he should have got the electricity supplier to remove the 100A fuse anyway?).
TonyRPH said:
Thanks - as I said earlier, I definitely won't be going near this.
The subject was raised in a recent management meeting, as there may be a requirement for some flats to be rewired, which of course will necessitate the isolation of the incoming mains to facilitate the replace of the ancient consumer units.
As I also mentioned earlier, one of the flats was recently rewired, and the electrician who did must have replaced the CU on a live circuit as he was reluctant to touch any of this old switchgear (and if I'm not mistaken - he should have got the electricity supplier to remove the 100A fuse anyway?).
If the meters in the flat he probably dropped the outgoing tail live which is dodge with today's h&s outlook but not full on dangerous living. I'd have just pulled the flat fuse at the ryefield box myself, he sounds a bit green maybe? The subject was raised in a recent management meeting, as there may be a requirement for some flats to be rewired, which of course will necessitate the isolation of the incoming mains to facilitate the replace of the ancient consumer units.
As I also mentioned earlier, one of the flats was recently rewired, and the electrician who did must have replaced the CU on a live circuit as he was reluctant to touch any of this old switchgear (and if I'm not mistaken - he should have got the electricity supplier to remove the 100A fuse anyway?).
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