Domestic hydrogen gas supply
Discussion
A500leroy said:
Just read the local council are changing the gas supply lines to cope with hydrogen in the future. Would this mean the 80+year old gas pipes under my driveway wouldnt be fit for purpose when its all switched over?
Local Council? Are you sure it isn't the distribution operator such as Cadent?If the gas pipes to the property need to be changed, the normal route is to poke the new one up the inside of the old one. Sometimes doesn't even need any digging on the property side.
No ideas for a name said:
A500leroy said:
Just read the local council are changing the gas supply lines to cope with hydrogen in the future. Would this mean the 80+year old gas pipes under my driveway wouldnt be fit for purpose when its all switched over?
Local Council? Are you sure it isn't the distribution operator such as Cadent?If the gas pipes to the property need to be changed, the normal route is to poke the new one up the inside of the old one. Sometimes doesn't even need any digging on the property side.
Anyway good that the pipes might be able to be updated like that, just hope its not needed. Wonder if all the internal ones would need doing to?
Yes, your metallic pipes are unlikely to be fit for purpose, but as others have said they might use a plastic inner pipe or mole a new pipe when the time comes.
Hydrogen to the home is likely to happen. The system is already approved for approximately 5-10% hydrogen supplementation without modification, 20% is the short term target.
Not all areas will be switched to full hydrogen as the expectation is that some areas would be better served by heat pumps and district heating.
Much of the distribution network has already been moved to plastic, but it's the last yard supply into the home that is the complicated and expensive work.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/say-hy-to-the-h...
https://www.energynetworks.org/newsroom/britains-g...
Hydrogen to the home is likely to happen. The system is already approved for approximately 5-10% hydrogen supplementation without modification, 20% is the short term target.
Not all areas will be switched to full hydrogen as the expectation is that some areas would be better served by heat pumps and district heating.
Much of the distribution network has already been moved to plastic, but it's the last yard supply into the home that is the complicated and expensive work.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/say-hy-to-the-h...
https://www.energynetworks.org/newsroom/britains-g...
Simpo Two said:
Hydrogen molecules (H2) are smaller than methane (CH4) so in theory could get through smaller holes - but what is this about homes being piped with hydrogen?
I believe there is a proposal to mix some hydrogen in with natural gas.Interestingly I found out yesterday that the original gas supply in the UK was Hydrogen (20-50%) in a mix of CO and CO2 and other volatile gases.
Simpo Two said:
And how do we plan to make all this hydrogen? Electrolysis from seawater?
Well, there are some proposals to produce 'blue' hydrogen from natural gas with carbon capture but EDF are proposing electrolysis.Ours used Lye.
Must say, I used to do some maintenance, and lateer did Safety Permits for Work on our electrolyser at work. They certainly used to concentrate the mind on safety far more than our two 1.6GW reactors ever did
Problem with electrolysis of sea water is the amount of Chlorine gas you generate. We used to also have an electrochlorination plant that put a current through seawater to produce some free chlorine to kill the mussels. Also produced Hydrogen.
Edited by Gary C on Wednesday 4th May 21:41
Evanivitch said:
Simpo Two said:
And how do we plan to make all this hydrogen? Electrolysis from seawater?
Not unprocessed sea water.So, given that electricity generation in the UK is already borderline thanks to the rush to sustainables, we now have to (a) power everybody's sexy new EVs (b) electrolyse enough water to power everybody's house? Has anyone actually done the maths?
Simpo Two said:
And how do we plan to make all this hydrogen? Electrolysis from seawater?
Some, but also some from natural gas. 
https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-government-lau...
“Blue” hydrogen is made from natural gas but with the resulting CO2 captured and stored, somewhere. Then when the hydrogen is burned only water is produced.
Which is fair enough, but lots still to be proven on how doable this actually is, how CO2 intensive it actually is and how much it costs.
Which is fair enough, but lots still to be proven on how doable this actually is, how CO2 intensive it actually is and how much it costs.
tload of water to generate the steam needed to react with the natural gas.Simpo Two said:
Sorry you've lost me.
So, given that electricity generation in the UK is already borderline thanks to the rush to sustainables, we now have to (a) power everybody's sexy new EVs (b) electrolyse enough water to power everybody's house? Has anyone actually done the maths?
UK electricity generation isn't borderline.So, given that electricity generation in the UK is already borderline thanks to the rush to sustainables, we now have to (a) power everybody's sexy new EVs (b) electrolyse enough water to power everybody's house? Has anyone actually done the maths?
EV charging isn't impacting the grid at this time.
UK has the largest development pipeline for wind power in the world (greater than China).
We would generate products at times of high generation, i.e. generation following rather than traditional load following.
A500leroy said:
Yeah cadent but in a first anywhere the council need to do some work so are using the same holes!
Anyway good that the pipes might be able to be updated like that, just hope its not needed. Wonder if all the internal ones would need doing to?
Some of the gas supply network still uses steel pipes which is not suitable for hydrogen due it's highly reactive nature. Much of the main network, by fluke, has been part of a major upgrade to plastic, which happens to be perfectly suited to hydrogen. Copper pipes in the low pressure domestic environment are also fine for hydrogen. Anyway good that the pipes might be able to be updated like that, just hope its not needed. Wonder if all the internal ones would need doing to?
Evanivitch said:
UK electricity generation isn't borderline.
EV charging isn't impacting the grid at this time.
UK has the largest development pipeline for wind power in the world (greater than China).
We would generate products at times of high generation, i.e. generation following rather than traditional load following.
Electricity generation has been falling for 15 years: https://www.pv-magazine.com/2021/07/29/uk-power-ge...EV charging isn't impacting the grid at this time.
UK has the largest development pipeline for wind power in the world (greater than China).
We would generate products at times of high generation, i.e. generation following rather than traditional load following.
EVs WILL impact the grid, if not today then soon.
Wind doesn't always blow. You have to have a reliable power source that doesn't rely on the vagaries of nature.
Simpo Two said:
Wind doesn't always blow. You have to have a reliable power source that doesn't rely on the vagaries of nature.
Not for creating hydrogen - you just create it when you have a surplus and then store it.Also, UK electricity consumption has been in decline for years as well: https://www.statista.com/statistics/322874/electri...
A lot of people are doing on the maths on this...
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