Building regs F**k U*!
Discussion
Evening All.
Seems I was a bit too trusting a few years ago when I had a kitchen / bathroom extension built in 2009, while I was mainly working away in that there London! Builder I used had built one next door for some housing association, I liked what I saw it being built one weekend while I was back home, and asked him to contact me when he'd finished that one, to basically build the same onto my house.
Roll on a few years and I'm selling mine, health means I can't get upstairs easily, and the buyers solicitor has asked for copies. Only, there's an application logged but nothing else it seems! Any paperwork I thought I had has somehow been lost / thrown out in the house clearance when I moved into my Sisters and the selling EA renovated and decorated.
It's taken a week to get someone at the council to even speak to me and the website is an absolute crock of sh*t. Where do we go from here, I've sure I've heard of 'retrospective planning approval', but is it actually a thing? How do I get it?
I'll be speaking to my solicitor tomorrow, or when she deigns to call me back
And you lot can't call me anything worse than I've been calling myself for the last few hours
Seems I was a bit too trusting a few years ago when I had a kitchen / bathroom extension built in 2009, while I was mainly working away in that there London! Builder I used had built one next door for some housing association, I liked what I saw it being built one weekend while I was back home, and asked him to contact me when he'd finished that one, to basically build the same onto my house.
Roll on a few years and I'm selling mine, health means I can't get upstairs easily, and the buyers solicitor has asked for copies. Only, there's an application logged but nothing else it seems! Any paperwork I thought I had has somehow been lost / thrown out in the house clearance when I moved into my Sisters and the selling EA renovated and decorated.
It's taken a week to get someone at the council to even speak to me and the website is an absolute crock of sh*t. Where do we go from here, I've sure I've heard of 'retrospective planning approval', but is it actually a thing? How do I get it?
I'll be speaking to my solicitor tomorrow, or when she deigns to call me back
And you lot can't call me anything worse than I've been calling myself for the last few hours
Buiding regs and planning aren't the same thing. So which are they asking for?
There'll be some experts along in a minute, but generally planning permission so long afterwards won't be required, or will be deemed to be approved, as enforcement has time limitations-usuallu 4 or 7 years, although there are exceptions particularly in conservation areas and for listed buildings.
Building regs are different and are generally to do with the structural safety of the build.
You need equus on the thread for the proper answers though
There'll be some experts along in a minute, but generally planning permission so long afterwards won't be required, or will be deemed to be approved, as enforcement has time limitations-usuallu 4 or 7 years, although there are exceptions particularly in conservation areas and for listed buildings.
Building regs are different and are generally to do with the structural safety of the build.
You need equus on the thread for the proper answers though
Ah, the old can’t tell the difference between planning and building regs issue. Best learn quick sharpish as it will help you a lot with your current conundrum. Also, it sounds like it’s the owner’s F*** Up.
If it’s planning, any operational development, which is what you would have done is, becomes exempt from Enforcement action after 4 years. Somebody may suggest that you apply for a Certificate of Lawfulness, but you don’t need to, the law is very clear on this, provided you can clearly show it has been in situ for more than 4 years. The planning department will not take action against it because they can’t.
Building regs is a completely separate thing, and I wonder if the builder got any kind of building notice for the works. If they did, was it via the Council or a private firm? They should have a record, but you will need to figure this part out.
If it’s planning, any operational development, which is what you would have done is, becomes exempt from Enforcement action after 4 years. Somebody may suggest that you apply for a Certificate of Lawfulness, but you don’t need to, the law is very clear on this, provided you can clearly show it has been in situ for more than 4 years. The planning department will not take action against it because they can’t.
Building regs is a completely separate thing, and I wonder if the builder got any kind of building notice for the works. If they did, was it via the Council or a private firm? They should have a record, but you will need to figure this part out.
Ah, the old can’t tell the difference between planning and building regs issue. Best learn quick sharpish as it will help you a lot with your current conundrum.
If it’s planning, any operational development, which is what you would have done is, becomes exempt from Enforcement action after 4 years. Somebody may suggest that you apply for a Certificate of Lawfulness, but you don’t need to, the law is very clear on this, provided you can clearly show it has been in situ for more than 4 years. The planning department will not take action against it because they can’t.
Building regs is a completely separate thing, and I wonder if the builder got any kind of building notice for the works. If they did, was it via the Council or a private firm? They should have a record, but you will need to figure this part out.
If it’s planning, any operational development, which is what you would have done is, becomes exempt from Enforcement action after 4 years. Somebody may suggest that you apply for a Certificate of Lawfulness, but you don’t need to, the law is very clear on this, provided you can clearly show it has been in situ for more than 4 years. The planning department will not take action against it because they can’t.
Building regs is a completely separate thing, and I wonder if the builder got any kind of building notice for the works. If they did, was it via the Council or a private firm? They should have a record, but you will need to figure this part out.
You can take out an indemnity insurance for lack of building regs and lack of planning permission. We bought an old stone house that had an extension at the back. It has indemnity insurance to cover lack of building regs and planning. See an insurance broker for these. That should satisfy some, but not all prospective buyers. As mentioned, the lack of planning can be overcome.
sociopath said:
Buiding regs and planning aren't the same thing. So which are they asking for?
There'll be some experts along in a minute, but generally planning permission so long afterwards won't be required, or will be deemed to be approved, as enforcement has time limitations-usuallu 4 or 7 years, although there are exceptions particularly in conservation areas and for listed buildings.
Building regs are different and are generally to do with the structural safety of the build.
You need equus on the thread for the proper answers though
Thanks for that sociopath, don't know anything about the laws / regs / permissions needed now let alone then. The builder did a great job next door for a housing association and even for the local council on occasion so I just thought he'd be ok. Plus I was away with work so rented the place out as soon as It was done and decorated. I'll be speaking to my solicitor tomorrow tomorrow, it was probably the buyers solicitor who suggested it to make it look like he's actually doing something after being f*ckin awol so far!! Caused my bloody heart to jump a bit though! There'll be some experts along in a minute, but generally planning permission so long afterwards won't be required, or will be deemed to be approved, as enforcement has time limitations-usuallu 4 or 7 years, although there are exceptions particularly in conservation areas and for listed buildings.
Building regs are different and are generally to do with the structural safety of the build.
You need equus on the thread for the proper answers though
Is equus a planner or regulations expert or something?Short Grain said:
sociopath said:
Buiding regs and planning aren't the same thing. So which are they asking for?
There'll be some experts along in a minute, but generally planning permission so long afterwards won't be required, or will be deemed to be approved, as enforcement has time limitations-usuallu 4 or 7 years, although there are exceptions particularly in conservation areas and for listed buildings.
Building regs are different and are generally to do with the structural safety of the build.
You need equus on the thread for the proper answers though
Thanks for that sociopath, don't know anything about the laws / regs / permissions needed now let alone then. The builder did a great job next door for a housing association and even for the local council on occasion so I just thought he'd be ok. Plus I was away with work so rented the place out as soon as It was done and decorated. I'll be speaking to my solicitor tomorrow tomorrow, it was probably the buyers solicitor who suggested it to make it look like he's actually doing something after being f*ckin awol so far!! Caused my bloody heart to jump a bit though! There'll be some experts along in a minute, but generally planning permission so long afterwards won't be required, or will be deemed to be approved, as enforcement has time limitations-usuallu 4 or 7 years, although there are exceptions particularly in conservation areas and for listed buildings.
Building regs are different and are generally to do with the structural safety of the build.
You need equus on the thread for the proper answers though
Is equus a planner or regulations expert or something?I bought a house without planning for a extension, took out insurance, think it was around £15 of something silly in 2005 ish??
Sold it 4 years later as a part ex to Bovis, never came up again.
I seem to remember having a conversation with our planning team and I'm sure they only keep building control certificates for 8 years anyway, planning forever??
Don't stress, all will be well!
Sold it 4 years later as a part ex to Bovis, never came up again.
I seem to remember having a conversation with our planning team and I'm sure they only keep building control certificates for 8 years anyway, planning forever??
Don't stress, all will be well!
Pica-Pica said:
You can take out an indemnity insurance for lack of building regs and lack of planning permission. We bought an old stone house that had an extension at the back. It has indemnity insurance to cover lack of building regs and planning. See an insurance broker for these. That should satisfy some, but not all prospective buyers. As mentioned, the lack of planning can be overcome.
the indemnity wont cover faults in the buildingIt is possible to seek both Planning and Building Regulations retrospectively.
A retrospective Planning application is straightforward (albeit success not guaranteed), but as Rosco has said, if you have evidence that the extension was built over 4 years ago, the more straightforward and reliable route may be to apply for a 'Certificate of Lawfulness'. Unauthorised work becomes 'lawful' after 4 years (or 10 years, depending on the nature of the work - but 4 in your case), if no enforcement action has been taken, and you can apply for a 'Certificate of Lawfulness' to confirm that.
Building Regulations can be more of a problem, becuase it involves exposing things like foundations and insulation to make sure they've been done right. Affter this length of time, there's not much that Building Control can do to enforce, but purchaser's solicitors don't usualy see it that way. As others have said, the pragmatic thing to do is usually to take out an indemnity policy. but such policies are automatically voided if you draw the unauthorised work to Council's attention, whcih it sounds like you have done already?
A retrospective Planning application is straightforward (albeit success not guaranteed), but as Rosco has said, if you have evidence that the extension was built over 4 years ago, the more straightforward and reliable route may be to apply for a 'Certificate of Lawfulness'. Unauthorised work becomes 'lawful' after 4 years (or 10 years, depending on the nature of the work - but 4 in your case), if no enforcement action has been taken, and you can apply for a 'Certificate of Lawfulness' to confirm that.
Building Regulations can be more of a problem, becuase it involves exposing things like foundations and insulation to make sure they've been done right. Affter this length of time, there's not much that Building Control can do to enforce, but purchaser's solicitors don't usualy see it that way. As others have said, the pragmatic thing to do is usually to take out an indemnity policy. but such policies are automatically voided if you draw the unauthorised work to Council's attention, whcih it sounds like you have done already?
dundarach said:
I bought a house without planning for a extension, took out insurance, think it was around £15 of something silly in 2005 ish??
Sold it 4 years later as a part ex to Bovis, never came up again.
I seem to remember having a conversation with our planning team and I'm sure they only keep building control certificates for 8 years anyway, planning forever??
Don't stress, all will be well!
Sold it 4 years later as a part ex to Bovis, never came up again.
I seem to remember having a conversation with our planning team and I'm sure they only keep building control certificates for 8 years anyway, planning forever??
Don't stress, all will be well!
rxe said:
Depends on the state of the housing market really.
Got a queue of people wanting to buy your place? The correct answer to the solicitor is “we don’t have it, whatever”
It’s only really a problem if you’re struggling to sell.
Got a queue of people wanting to buy your place? The correct answer to the solicitor is “we don’t have it, whatever”
It’s only really a problem if you’re struggling to sell.
Pica-Pica said:
You can take out an indemnity insurance for lack of building regs and lack of planning permission. We bought an old stone house that had an extension at the back. It has indemnity insurance to cover lack of building regs and planning. See an insurance broker for these. That should satisfy some, but not all prospective buyers. As mentioned, the lack of planning can be overcome.
Agree with the above quotes. My brother sold his house 12 months ago, and unbeknown to him, when our Dad built it 25 years ago, he actually 'sneaked' an extra floor onto it.... 
It was supposed to be a bungalow as planning would not allow anything above 1 story, however he built it with a staircase inside and 3 large attic rooms, complete with windows and Velux. How the council didn't notice I don't know, but when my Bro came to sell, it all became apparent that the house was built to only vaguely resemble what planning had agreed, and building control had not ever signed it off. The buyers were not fussed at all as they really loved the house, and an indemnity policy was taken out at the time of sale.
Just be aware that you, and the buyers, will need to choose the policy carefully as many will have a clause that says if the council have already inspected and refused the works on the property, the policy will not cover this. The insurance is usually only valid if the council are unaware of the build or works. Edit: Just noticed that Equus has clarified this above.
bobtail4x4 said:
the indemnity wont cover faults in the building
Indeed, but that isn't what most people care about. Their concern is that a friendly representative from the local council will suddenly turn up one day and tell them to knock it down.Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 17th August 08:57
Seems the government are looking to dispense with the 4 year rule, soonish
https://www.planningdirect.co.uk/news/4-year-rule-...
https://www.planningdirect.co.uk/news/4-year-rule-...
freedman said:
Seems the government are looking to dispense with the 4 year rule, soonish
https://www.planningdirect.co.uk/news/4-year-rule-...
I'd wait and see.https://www.planningdirect.co.uk/news/4-year-rule-...
It was one of the proposals in the Levelling up and Regeneration Bill that's going through Parliament at the moment, but given that Boris will no longer be PM in 3 weeks from now, all bets are off on whether that will actually see daylight or what final form it will take.
It wasn't that the 4 year rule was to be abolished - the intention was to amend it to 10 years for everything (instead of 10 years for some breaches of Planning and 4 years for others).
Interestingly, if I'm reading it correctly, in Wales it would be made 4 years for everything and the 10 year bit would be 'abolished'. Nothing like a bit of consistency in Government, is there?
Since the OP is beyond 10 years already, it wouldn't make any difference to him in any case.
57 Chevy said:
On the building regs part, it was build 13 years ago. Building regs have changed a lot during that time anyway. If there are no signs of it falling down then I don't see what value the certificate has anyway?
Hey, you're arguing from a commonsense position and solicitors are involved here. To put this to bed, almost, the council sent me a certificate of completion for the property, dated today! This is after I sent them another email stating I would still need to actually visit their offices to hunt for the documents. I also asked them if they had lost documents when they moved into their current building! Maybe I was near the truth in my suspicions!
The roads planning have just informed me they are sending out the permissions obtained at the same time for the dropped kerb!
Happy Days and hopefully these will satisfy the buyer! Here's Hoping! Many Thanks to everyone who replied!
The roads planning have just informed me they are sending out the permissions obtained at the same time for the dropped kerb!
Happy Days and hopefully these will satisfy the buyer! Here's Hoping! Many Thanks to everyone who replied!
57 Chevy said:
On the building regs part, it was build 13 years ago. Building regs have changed a lot during that time anyway. If there are no signs of it falling down then I don't see what value the certificate has anyway?
I visited a house yesterday that had an extension that was finished 20 years ago, never signed off.it has a landing at the top of the stairs that is 300mm deep, the guarding has been removed to the side so you can step off the side of the stair, or fall off the side landing
more worrying is the total lack of wind bracing in the roof,
the trusses are just waiting for a decent storm to fall over like a set of dominos
oh the house is sold the "survey" found no problems....
Short Grain said:
To put this to bed, almost, the council sent me a certificate of completion for the property, dated today!
Good result!In the old days, and particularly for work done under a Building Notice, my increasingly unreliable memory (Bobtail may be able to confirm) tells me that Local Authorities didn't used to issue Completion Certificates unless you actually asked for one, so it might be as simple as that never happened.
bobtail4x4 said:
I visited a house yesterday that had an extension that was finished 20 years ago, never signed off.
it has a landing at the top of the stairs that is 300mm deep, the guarding has been removed to the side so you can step off the side of the stair, or fall off the side landing
more worrying is the total lack of wind bracing in the roof,
the trusses are just waiting for a decent storm to fall over like a set of dominos
oh the house is sold the "survey" found no problems....
There’s been a lot of those in the past 20 years so a good chance it won’t just flop over it has a landing at the top of the stairs that is 300mm deep, the guarding has been removed to the side so you can step off the side of the stair, or fall off the side landing
more worrying is the total lack of wind bracing in the roof,
the trusses are just waiting for a decent storm to fall over like a set of dominos
oh the house is sold the "survey" found no problems....
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