Three Phase Engineer Shortage?

[BatForcePC]

Long story short - we've built an agricultural barn and had National Grid install a new supply at great expense. This was completed in June.

I call Octopus and ask can they install a meter - they say yes and get someone to come out in July. He comes out and tells me he can't do it and I need a three phase engineer - it's a split phase supply as we had a constraint on the transformer

Three phase engineer comes out a week ago, he says he can't do it because National Grid have made a mistake - he was an idiot and National Grid have since inspected and said there's no problem in the box but put some stickers on the box to make it idiot proof.

Called Octopus to get a new appointment - no three phase engineers available and they can't give me a date but will ring when they can....given I was waiting a month for an engineer last time I'm not hopeful of anything this side of Christmas....

Is there really a three phase engineer shortage or is that just Octopus? I'm wondering if I can switch suppliers but I imagine that will also be a RPITA...

[Evanivitch]

There's a shortage of 3-phase trained technicians, yes. Because it's become increasingly popular as solar installations and electric heating convince people to make the swap. Only recently have 3-phase smart meters been available from octopus too, so there's a big waiting list.

[BatForcePC]

Evanivitch said:

There's a shortage of 3-phase trained technicians, yes. Because it's become increasingly popular as solar installations and electric heating convince people to make the swap. Only recently have 3-phase smart meters been available from octopus too, so there's a big waiting list.

Thanks - the thing is I don't need a three phase meter, a standard one will do but because it's a split phase supply I need a three phase engineer... I'll keep bugging Octopus and if I don't get anywhere call another supplier and see if they can find an engineer...

[Bluemondy]

BatForcePC said:

Thanks - the thing is I don't need a three phase meter, a standard one will do but because it's a split phase supply I need a three phase engineer... I'll keep bugging Octopus and if I don't get anywhere call another supplier and see if they can find an engineer...

You need a 3ph competent meter maid to fit the meter.

Is it a series 7 cutout (grey single unit with the 3 fuse holders) or a more ancient installation? (Usually black single block per phase and a separate neutral?).

Either way it's the meter maid who needs to have the competency to fit it.

If you only actually require single phase then your right, you can arrange for the MPAN to be changed to reflect that and the meter maid should be good to go.

[BatForcePC]

This is the unit we have installed by NG... please ignore the wires hanging down etc... we're in the middle of wiring the barn. Our electrician has put the consumer unit in readiness of the meter going in.



The problem with the engineers so far is a single phase engineer can't touch a split phase supply (not trained/qualifications etc) and there don't appear to be any three phase engineers.... I wonder whether Octopus have it down as a three phase meter requirement...

[BatForcePC]

this is the inside of the box for those who understand such things!

[Mr Pointy]

Well strictly speking that's not a three phase supply so why can't an ordinary single phase electrician connect it up?

[BatForcePC]

Mr Pointy said:

Well strictly speking that's not a three phase supply so why can't an ordinary single phase electrician connect it up?

Very good question....but according to jobs worth single phase electrical engineer who came in July, he can't touch it, only a three phase engineer can touch a split phase supply.

[Boylston]

yes, there is a shortage. We had to HOUND octopus for 6 months to get a net-sum compliant 3 phase meter installed. And they used every excuse in the book to try and avoid. Including "We don't install them in your area" which was easy to rebuf with a picture of our neighbours.

Just keep the pressure on. What I found finally was getting the 'Engineering teams' direct phone number helped to cut out the clueless middle layer.

Simon

[Mr Pointy]

BatForcePC said:

Mr Pointy said:

Well strictly speking that's not a three phase supply so why can't an ordinary single phase electrician connect it up?

Very good question....but according to jobs worth single phase electrical engineer who came in July, he can't touch it, only a three phase engineer can touch a split phase supply.

Are you using both phases of the supply? If you are you'll need a different meter & two CUs. Pages 21-24 sort of shows what is going on (although the document isn't very recent):

https://www.nationalgrid.co.uk/downloads/3347

[BatForcePC]

Mr Pointy said:

Are you using both phases of the supply? If you are you'll need a different meter & two CUs. Pages 21-24 sort of shows what is going on (although the document isn't very recent):

https://www.nationalgrid.co.uk/downloads/3347

Thanks - very interesting. I genuinely don't know the answer to that question - I've just asked National Grid to clarify!

[Mr Pointy]

BatForcePC said:

Mr Pointy said:

Are you using both phases of the supply? If you are you'll need a different meter & two CUs. Pages 21-24 sort of shows what is going on (although the document isn't very recent):

https://www.nationalgrid.co.uk/downloads/3347

Thanks - very interesting. I genuinely don't know the answer to that question - I've just asked National Grid to clarify!

Two L1 labels is a bit confusing - stick a voltmeter across the two & see if you get 460V or 0V.

[BigRickus]

Is there a reason to stick with octopus? You will find the likes of British Gas or edf have more 3-phase engineers as they are more common commercially and/or on new builds. Surely you can then switch supplier to your preferred?

[Bluemondy]

BatForcePC said:

this is the inside of the box for those who understand such things!

That's a big ass problem. That's a "large power cutout" and why your meter maids are legging it.

It's designed to be used along side a CT cabinet for installations OVER 100A per phase.

What DNO Area are you in?

[Bluemondy]

PS. National grid wouldn't install that.

Who's your DNO. It's a single phase wired to two phases (I've never done that with CT metering). I have installed split phase transformers to a split phase 300A/phase CT metering though.

I'd love too see the design behind this.

You can send me a pm/email if you'd prefer, but this is very much my area of work

Edited by Bluemondy on Tuesday 5th September 20:13

[starmonkey]

If you can find the right combination of buttons on the Octopus phone system you can get a project manager at Octopus assigned who can book a 3-ph engineer. We had ours done in February - it does depend on area though, we are in Berkshire and I think the engineer was Winchester based.

[Puzzles]

I’m waiting for octopus to sort out my 3 phase issues and it’s dragged on and on, so I would say there’s a problem.

[theboss]

I had Octopus install a 3 phase meter at my home approx 9 months ago and they couldn't have done it faster - the guy came from mid-Wales in fact (I'm based in Salop) and co-ordinated so as to be onsite at the same time as the DNO when they installed the cut-out.

Surely demand hasn't changed significantly in that timeframe?

Are there any other works on your side of the installation that require you to find your own contractor or is just Octopus and the meter installation that is held up? I found it best to look for commercial contractors who deal with this stuff all day long on an industrial scale rather than your more typical domestic sparks. The guys who installed my distribution board and all the conduits etc. were absolutely superb.

[Laplace]

Looks like a 230-0-230 split-phase supply. It's likely supplied from a 460V centre-tapped transformer secondary, providing two lines and a shared neutral, as shown above.

There will be a nominal 460V between each line; hence, a 'single-phase technician' may not be authorised to work on it. While it is fundamentally a single-phase supply, they may only be authorised through their Electrical Safety Rules and/or their Competency framework to work on systems not exceeding 230V, as that's the level they are trained and competent in, or something along those lines.

[BatForcePC]

Bluemondy said:

PS. National grid wouldn't install that.

Who's your DNO. It's a single phase wired to two phases (I've never done that with CT metering). I have installed split phase transformers to a split phase 300A/phase CT metering though.

I'd love too see the design behind this.

You can send me a pm/email if you'd prefer, but this is very much my area of work

Edited by Bluemondy on Tuesday 5th September 20:13

You worry me with your comment of "big ass problem".. Our DNO is/was Western Power, now National Grid.

National Grid did install this. The spec was originally a single phase 60amp supply but I requested it was fused to a 100amp supply, as per the farm house and so we could feed the various out buildings with power without worry. The comment from National Grid was that since the transformer is 160m away they needed to put a split phase supply in - I confirmed it would behave as per a normal supply... 240v, fused to 100amp, import and export, single phase. Following the comments from the idiot who came to install the meter last time, this is what the outside of the box now looks like...with the PME earthing confirmed as per the electrician's request.