Grade 2 Listed Survey
Discussion
Hi
We have just had an offer accepted on a grade 2 listed cottage. Can anyone recommend a Level 3 surveyor in the Cheshire/Wirral area? And could anyone give me an idea of the costs. The property is a detached cottage, sandstone build with a thatched roof, built circa 1700.
The thatched roof was replaced last year but I am aware a normal level 2 survey won't be adequate.
Thanks
Brian
We have just had an offer accepted on a grade 2 listed cottage. Can anyone recommend a Level 3 surveyor in the Cheshire/Wirral area? And could anyone give me an idea of the costs. The property is a detached cottage, sandstone build with a thatched roof, built circa 1700.
The thatched roof was replaced last year but I am aware a normal level 2 survey won't be adequate.
Thanks
Brian
I'll do it for you!
It'll be damp everywhere according to their meters (they all do that Sir),
the chimneys wont be the right construction and design, well they were but not now so they will allow water in (its been like that for 200 yrs and not caused major issues), check their height over the ridge, your insurers will want to know
they will have no idea what it is thatched with and whether that is what it should be,
the loft may or may not have armoured wiring up there
the walls may or may not be done in concrete render and painted with dulux's best - none of which is ideal
there will be lots of (small) internal cracks as plaster board and modern plaster doesn't move like lime does and you have no foundations. Again they all do that sir.
etc
the report will sound like a bomb site but hey that's old houses. Unless they say it's in imminent danger of falling down then that's about all you can deduce.
Having said that I'd still do it try and choose carefully. Also speak to the thatcher (they work on at least 3 year cycles so you need to be on someones books or you could come unstuck) and you will need repairs
Oh and check the insurance prices too or you could have a shock.
But they are great to live in.
We're 3 weeks into a 16 week rethatch and its messy and chuffing expensive but it will look fab when it's done.
It'll be damp everywhere according to their meters (they all do that Sir),
the chimneys wont be the right construction and design, well they were but not now so they will allow water in (its been like that for 200 yrs and not caused major issues), check their height over the ridge, your insurers will want to know
they will have no idea what it is thatched with and whether that is what it should be,
the loft may or may not have armoured wiring up there
the walls may or may not be done in concrete render and painted with dulux's best - none of which is ideal
there will be lots of (small) internal cracks as plaster board and modern plaster doesn't move like lime does and you have no foundations. Again they all do that sir.
etc
the report will sound like a bomb site but hey that's old houses. Unless they say it's in imminent danger of falling down then that's about all you can deduce.
Having said that I'd still do it try and choose carefully. Also speak to the thatcher (they work on at least 3 year cycles so you need to be on someones books or you could come unstuck) and you will need repairs
Oh and check the insurance prices too or you could have a shock.
But they are great to live in.
We're 3 weeks into a 16 week rethatch and its messy and chuffing expensive but it will look fab when it's done.
Exactly what ^^ he said.
When we bought our GII listed farmhouse we decided to get a "heritage" survey completed, not cheap, whilst it was interesting, it was a waste of money. Use common sense when you go around, or get a trusted builder to come with you, the main thing is to spot if previous owners have done any bodges you're going to need to put right.
When we bought our GII listed farmhouse we decided to get a "heritage" survey completed, not cheap, whilst it was interesting, it was a waste of money. Use common sense when you go around, or get a trusted builder to come with you, the main thing is to spot if previous owners have done any bodges you're going to need to put right.
We bought a listed property a couple of years ago and I was pondering getting a survey.
I had a builder mate look at it and he said
Well it's 250 years old but you'd be really f
king unlucky if it fell down now.
So I'd say just check for the usual stuff and go from there.
A survey will have you thinking it's totally fked as like the posters above said, they did things differently back then.
Ours felt a bit damp but it had been empty for a few months - as soon as we started using it and opening doors and windows it felt fine. I'd imagine it would fail a damp survey now though
I had a builder mate look at it and he said
Well it's 250 years old but you'd be really f
king unlucky if it fell down now. So I'd say just check for the usual stuff and go from there.
A survey will have you thinking it's totally f
ked as like the posters above said, they did things differently back then.Ours felt a bit damp but it had been empty for a few months - as soon as we started using it and opening doors and windows it felt fine. I'd imagine it would fail a damp survey now though
Edited by TownIdiot on Tuesday 23 July 23:16
Look for anything that seems to be recentish work or out of keeping with the age of the property. check with the local conservation officer to be sure that permission was given.
We looked at a listed house that had a couple of upvc windows at the back that the conservation officer didnt know about and wouldnt have allowed.
Although the kicker in that case was that there was a date stone mentioned in the listing that the owners had altered to add their own initials....
We looked at a listed house that had a couple of upvc windows at the back that the conservation officer didnt know about and wouldnt have allowed.
Although the kicker in that case was that there was a date stone mentioned in the listing that the owners had altered to add their own initials....
Thanks for all the replies. My most productive post!
I am trying to reply to all but just via one post.
We are in touch with the vendor to get details of the Thatch etc as it was only replaced last year.
The building itself looks spot on to my untrained eye. Not a square room or a flat wall but it is 300 years old. It has no loft space so that makes life a bit easier. I am more worried about dry rot in the wooden beams or that the render is hiding any major cracks.
Forgive my ignorance but what are LBC's?
What repairs am I likely to need on a 1 year old Thatch......does it require regular maintenance visits? If so, what kind of money are we talking?
As this is PH......it does have a wooden framed garage I intend to replace at some point.....but that will be a while yet as if we do manage to get it I will be skint for a while!
I have had an insurance quote....10 times dearer than we pay on our apartment. However, we have contents only cover, the building is covered on our ground rent and service charge. Co-incidentally, this ground rent and service charge is within £20 of our new insurance quote......so I suppose we will be no worse off!
Thanks everyone, really appreciate people taking the time to reply.
PS: I have amended my profile so I now allow messages. I didn't know I didn't have this activated! :-)
I am trying to reply to all but just via one post.
We are in touch with the vendor to get details of the Thatch etc as it was only replaced last year.
The building itself looks spot on to my untrained eye. Not a square room or a flat wall but it is 300 years old. It has no loft space so that makes life a bit easier. I am more worried about dry rot in the wooden beams or that the render is hiding any major cracks.
Forgive my ignorance but what are LBC's?
What repairs am I likely to need on a 1 year old Thatch......does it require regular maintenance visits? If so, what kind of money are we talking?
As this is PH......it does have a wooden framed garage I intend to replace at some point.....but that will be a while yet as if we do manage to get it I will be skint for a while!
I have had an insurance quote....10 times dearer than we pay on our apartment. However, we have contents only cover, the building is covered on our ground rent and service charge. Co-incidentally, this ground rent and service charge is within £20 of our new insurance quote......so I suppose we will be no worse off!
Thanks everyone, really appreciate people taking the time to reply.
PS: I have amended my profile so I now allow messages. I didn't know I didn't have this activated! :-)
Edited by brian_H on Wednesday 24th July 11:21
brian_H said:
Thanks for all the replies. My most productive post!
I am trying to reply to all but just via one post.
We are in touch with the vendor to get details of the Thatch etc as it was only replaced last year.
The building itself looks spot on to my untrained eye. Not a square room or a flat wall but it is 300 years old. It has no loft space so that makes life a bit easier. I am more worried about dry rot in the wooden beams or that the render is hiding any major cracks.
Forgive my ignorance but what are LBC's?
What repairs am I likely to need on a 1 year old Thatch......does it require regular maintenance visits? If so, what kind of money are we talking?
As this is PH......it does have a wooden framed garage I intend to replace at some point.....but that will be a while yet as if we do manage to get it I will be skint for a while!
I have had an insurance quote....10 times dearer than we pay on our apartment. However, we have contents only cover, the building is covered on our ground rent and service charge. Co-incidentally, this ground rent and service charge is within £20 of our new insurance quote......so I suppose we will be no worse off!
Thanks everyone, really appreciate people taking the time to reply.
PS: I have amended my profile so I now allow messages. I didn't know I didn't have this activated! :-)
You won't need repairs on a year old thatch or frankly for another 7 or 8 when the ridge may need doing again. But as the thatch reaches 15+ years you will start to get gullies where the run off congregates. The thatcher will pack it and all will be well for a period.I am trying to reply to all but just via one post.
We are in touch with the vendor to get details of the Thatch etc as it was only replaced last year.
The building itself looks spot on to my untrained eye. Not a square room or a flat wall but it is 300 years old. It has no loft space so that makes life a bit easier. I am more worried about dry rot in the wooden beams or that the render is hiding any major cracks.
Forgive my ignorance but what are LBC's?
What repairs am I likely to need on a 1 year old Thatch......does it require regular maintenance visits? If so, what kind of money are we talking?
As this is PH......it does have a wooden framed garage I intend to replace at some point.....but that will be a while yet as if we do manage to get it I will be skint for a while!
I have had an insurance quote....10 times dearer than we pay on our apartment. However, we have contents only cover, the building is covered on our ground rent and service charge. Co-incidentally, this ground rent and service charge is within £20 of our new insurance quote......so I suppose we will be no worse off!
Thanks everyone, really appreciate people taking the time to reply.
PS: I have amended my profile so I now allow messages. I didn't know I didn't have this activated! :-)
Edited by brian_H on Wednesday 24th July 11:21
LBC - local borough council or listed building consent I assume. Check for listed planning consent applications. it's all on line.
Garage - good luck. You will need list building consent and you may not get it without the use of an architect. Ask me how I know!
brian_H said:
What repairs am I likely to need on a 1 year old Thatch......does it require regular maintenance visits? If so, what kind of money are we talking?
I owned a thatched property for 15 years - only sold it a couple of months ago. I never had it completely re-thatched during my ownership because it didn't need it, though I did have the front mostly re-done last year.Maintenance was always on an as and when basis; it may take a while to understand what you are looking for but Vs forming in the sloping roof are a sign of wear. The ridge is likely to need re-doing every few years; I found that the straw on mine was mostly fine but the squirrels stole the hazel spars which held it down so it needed attention without complete re-ridging every couple of years. My thatched would just run up a ladder and do it in half an hour so it wasn't expensive but definitely worth having a good relationship with your thatcher.
Just to add - regarding the garage, the fact you have one already gives you potential for replacement but the design and materials are going to have to be in keeping; check now with the conservation officer if possible. For contrast, some neighbours of mine live in a listed property and the garage was knocked down to build a whole house (with listed building consent - LBC) a few years ago. They bought just the remainder of the plot with the listed cottage but they have found that there is no chance they will get permission to put up a garage now because it would impact on the listed setting.
Edited by Jobbo on Wednesday 24th July 13:29
This guy carried out a survey on our C18th farmhouse plus another one that fell through and we were happy with everything he did. IIRC the cost was around £2k. He’s located in W Yorks but he may be willing to travel, or if not he could perhaps advise you on how to find a good local surveyor.
https://mjmellorsurveying.co.uk/
Just in case it’s important he has indemnity insurance for up to £1.5m, whereas some surveyors only have cover up to £1m.
As others have mentioned a survey has limited scope in older houses but I feel it’s well worth having them done, especially as a way of investigating areas of damp. It can also be useful to have one as a reference for the future.
https://mjmellorsurveying.co.uk/
Just in case it’s important he has indemnity insurance for up to £1.5m, whereas some surveyors only have cover up to £1m.
As others have mentioned a survey has limited scope in older houses but I feel it’s well worth having them done, especially as a way of investigating areas of damp. It can also be useful to have one as a reference for the future.
rlw said:
And remember that you can't do anything to it, zilcho, zero, fk all without permission - except decorating and carpets - so if that floor is a bit knackered, or the bath is too small, you have to ask.
You certainly cannot change windows or internal doors or move internal walls and the like without permission but renovating floors and bathrooms does not need permission. k all without permission - except decorating and carpets - so if that floor is a bit knackered, or the bath is too small, you have to ask.Verbatim what our Heritage Officer told us when we moved in.
You might find this previous thread useful - or not.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Rather than just guess wildly about LBC:
"Scenario 8: Kitchen and bathroom fittings (46 & 47)
amongst the commonest changes to any domestic building are the re-fitting of kitchens and bathrooms. Kitchens may sometimes retain
remnants of historic kitchen fittings, particularly cast-iron ranges, breadovens and coppers, or of other fittings where the room was not previously
a kitchen; their removal or alteration is likely to harm special interest and would therefore need LBC.
The removal and replacement of modern kitchen fittings in the same location is unlikely to harm special interest, however, and therefore would not need LBC, with the exception of postwar kitchen fittings in post-war listed buildings where the fittings are morelikely to be of special interest.
Much the same goes for bathrooms, though these may also have been converted from rooms with another former use and therefore retain fittings from that use – a C18 bedroom fire-surround, for instance – the removal of which may harm special interest. Other changes which may less frequently harm special interest are the removal or alteration of nineteenth and twentieth century bathroom fittings, such as decorative basins and lavatory pans, early brass shower fittings and early twentieth century and Art Deco bathroom fittings which, though extremely rare, can be of considerable splendour.
The possible impact of cable/pipe runs and piped extractor fans and ventilators needs to be borne in mind in both kitchens and bathrooms; these should be reused, unless that is not feasible or would mean reinstating a previous poor piece of workmanship."
from: https://historicengland.org.uk/images-books/public...
"Scenario 8: Kitchen and bathroom fittings (46 & 47)
amongst the commonest changes to any domestic building are the re-fitting of kitchens and bathrooms. Kitchens may sometimes retain
remnants of historic kitchen fittings, particularly cast-iron ranges, breadovens and coppers, or of other fittings where the room was not previously
a kitchen; their removal or alteration is likely to harm special interest and would therefore need LBC.
The removal and replacement of modern kitchen fittings in the same location is unlikely to harm special interest, however, and therefore would not need LBC, with the exception of postwar kitchen fittings in post-war listed buildings where the fittings are morelikely to be of special interest.
Much the same goes for bathrooms, though these may also have been converted from rooms with another former use and therefore retain fittings from that use – a C18 bedroom fire-surround, for instance – the removal of which may harm special interest. Other changes which may less frequently harm special interest are the removal or alteration of nineteenth and twentieth century bathroom fittings, such as decorative basins and lavatory pans, early brass shower fittings and early twentieth century and Art Deco bathroom fittings which, though extremely rare, can be of considerable splendour.
The possible impact of cable/pipe runs and piped extractor fans and ventilators needs to be borne in mind in both kitchens and bathrooms; these should be reused, unless that is not feasible or would mean reinstating a previous poor piece of workmanship."
from: https://historicengland.org.uk/images-books/public...
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