House wall damaged potentially by tenant
Discussion
Posting on behalf of a family member.
The front wall of a property they let out has been damaged, we suspect, by the tenant (who has now left) - the tenant decided to use the front garden as an additional drive and we suspect, at some point, their car has gone into the property.
We need to check whether this damage would be covered by the home insurance but, if not, wondered if we stood any chance of pursuing the tenant for the remedial costs. The challenge, I suspect, would be proving the damage was caused by them.
With regards remedial works, would the first step be to engage a structural engineer to compile a report - would the scope of any such engagement include opinions on how the damage was caused? Any ideas how much a structural engineer would charge for this service?
Apologies for all the questions but this event is outside our scope of experience.
The front wall of a property they let out has been damaged, we suspect, by the tenant (who has now left) - the tenant decided to use the front garden as an additional drive and we suspect, at some point, their car has gone into the property.
We need to check whether this damage would be covered by the home insurance but, if not, wondered if we stood any chance of pursuing the tenant for the remedial costs. The challenge, I suspect, would be proving the damage was caused by them.
With regards remedial works, would the first step be to engage a structural engineer to compile a report - would the scope of any such engagement include opinions on how the damage was caused? Any ideas how much a structural engineer would charge for this service?
Apologies for all the questions but this event is outside our scope of experience.
Wacky Racer said:
Very difficult to prove, they could just deny it,
There doesn't seem to be too much damage, I would just make good and render over the entire wall under the window.
Probably 2 hours work tops.
Check there is no damage to the interior wall though under the window first.
The interior wall has also been damaged - apologies, no picture to hand.There doesn't seem to be too much damage, I would just make good and render over the entire wall under the window.
Probably 2 hours work tops.
Check there is no damage to the interior wall though under the window first.
Do you have a walk-round video of the property from the start of the tenancy? This was something I did with my properties on the advice of a lettings agent and (I believe) pretty standard nowadays.
I would expect there to be a clause in the let to say something along the lines of 'all damage to the building to be reported'.
If there was a decent pre tenancy inspection and a reasonable tenancy contract I would expect you to have no trouble with showing the tenant is liable for the cost of the repair.
I would expect there to be a clause in the let to say something along the lines of 'all damage to the building to be reported'.
If there was a decent pre tenancy inspection and a reasonable tenancy contract I would expect you to have no trouble with showing the tenant is liable for the cost of the repair.
Wacky Racer said:
Very difficult to prove, they could just deny it,
There doesn't seem to be too much damage, I would just make good and render over the entire wall under the window.
Probably 2 hours work tops.
Check there is no damage to the interior wall though under the window first.
if you can dismantle a wall, clean the bricks, mix cement, rebuild the wall and render it in under 2 hours you can come and build my extension!There doesn't seem to be too much damage, I would just make good and render over the entire wall under the window.
Probably 2 hours work tops.
Check there is no damage to the interior wall though under the window first.
Richard-D said:
Do you have a walk-round video of the property from the start of the tenancy? This was something I did with my properties on the advice of a lettings agent and (I believe) pretty standard nowadays.
I would expect there to be a clause in the let to say something along the lines of 'all damage to the building to be reported'.
If there was a decent pre tenancy inspection and a reasonable tenancy contract I would expect you to have no trouble with showing the tenant is liable for the cost of the repair.
We have a comprehensive pre-tenancy inventory full of pictures of the property.I would expect there to be a clause in the let to say something along the lines of 'all damage to the building to be reported'.
If there was a decent pre tenancy inspection and a reasonable tenancy contract I would expect you to have no trouble with showing the tenant is liable for the cost of the repair.
Haven't checked yet if there are any pictures showing the front of the property as we have given this to the chap who is performing the checkout inventory.
SpeedBash said:
We have a comprehensive pre-tenancy inventory full of pictures of the property.
Haven't checked yet if there are any pictures showing the front of the property as we have given this to the chap who is performing the checkout inventory.
I would have a good look over your tenancy agreement to check for a 'reporting damage' clause then. The tenant doesn't necessarily have to have caused the damage themselves to be liable.Haven't checked yet if there are any pictures showing the front of the property as we have given this to the chap who is performing the checkout inventory.
Richard-D said:
I would have a good look over your tenancy agreement to check for a 'reporting damage' clause then. The tenant doesn't necessarily have to have caused the damage themselves to be liable.
Just checked and this is the only applicable cause I could find. I wonder if this would be enough to pursue him with.Might be worth looking for pre-accident damage on google streetview, sometimes that throws up a decent image if you don't already have an external one at the start of the tenancy.
How bad is the internal damage?
I can imagine the tenant might just say that a visitor must have done it and they never noticed (bulls
t I know but prove otherwise). Are the neighbours prepared to give statements about what happened (and go to court if needed).
Before any remedial work is done take loads of detailed images with a measuring tape and level.
It might be worth a letter of claim at the very least and see how they respond. I'd be reluctant to throw any money at court proceedings though as you have no evidence of how the damage occurred.
Also, if the tenant has no real assets you're going to struggle to enforce a judgment so the owner needs to carefully think about how much they are prepared to get into it.
How bad is the internal damage?
I can imagine the tenant might just say that a visitor must have done it and they never noticed (bulls
t I know but prove otherwise). Are the neighbours prepared to give statements about what happened (and go to court if needed). Before any remedial work is done take loads of detailed images with a measuring tape and level.
It might be worth a letter of claim at the very least and see how they respond. I'd be reluctant to throw any money at court proceedings though as you have no evidence of how the damage occurred.
Also, if the tenant has no real assets you're going to struggle to enforce a judgment so the owner needs to carefully think about how much they are prepared to get into it.
SpeedBash said:
Richard-D said:
I would have a good look over your tenancy agreement to check for a 'reporting damage' clause then. The tenant doesn't necessarily have to have caused the damage themselves to be liable.
Just checked and this is the only applicable cause I could find. I wonder if this would be enough to pursue him with.SpeedBash said:
We have a comprehensive pre-tenancy inventory full of pictures of the property.
Haven't checked yet if there are any pictures showing the front of the property as we have given this to the chap who is performing the checkout inventory.
How long between the tenant officially leaving / tenancy ending and the checkout inventory being undertaken? Same day?Haven't checked yet if there are any pictures showing the front of the property as we have given this to the chap who is performing the checkout inventory.
If you still have the deposit then there’s a chance you can get the mediation process going, hopefully in your favour, but honestly just get a local bricky and plasterer in for a day asap.
Structural engineers and court cases will cost far more than the repair will cost.
Win some, lose some.
Structural engineers and court cases will cost far more than the repair will cost.
Win some, lose some.
MBVitoria said:
Might be worth looking for pre-accident damage on google streetview, sometimes that throws up a decent image if you don't already have an external one at the start of the tenancy.
How bad is the internal damage?
I can imagine the tenant might just say that a visitor must have done it and they never noticed (bullst I know but prove otherwise). Are the neighbours prepared to give statements about what happened (and go to court if needed).
Before any remedial work is done take loads of detailed images with a measuring tape and level.
It might be worth a letter of claim at the very least and see how they respond. I'd be reluctant to throw any money at court proceedings though as you have no evidence of how the damage occurred.
Also, if the tenant has no real assets you're going to struggle to enforce a judgment so the owner needs to carefully think about how much they are prepared to get into it.
Good tip regarding Streetview.How bad is the internal damage?
I can imagine the tenant might just say that a visitor must have done it and they never noticed (bulls
t I know but prove otherwise). Are the neighbours prepared to give statements about what happened (and go to court if needed). Before any remedial work is done take loads of detailed images with a measuring tape and level.
It might be worth a letter of claim at the very least and see how they respond. I'd be reluctant to throw any money at court proceedings though as you have no evidence of how the damage occurred.
Also, if the tenant has no real assets you're going to struggle to enforce a judgment so the owner needs to carefully think about how much they are prepared to get into it.
The letter of claim might work as I know the tenant can't afford to have a CCJ against him as it will affect his work situation so this might put the frighteners on him to settle.
LimmerickLad said:
How long between the tenant officially leaving / tenancy ending and the checkout inventory being undertaken? Same day?
Tenant returned the key to us on Monday early evening - checkout inventory took place this morning which was the earliest appointment we could get.andy43 said:
If you still have the deposit then there’s a chance you can get the mediation process going, hopefully in your favour, but honestly just get a local bricky and plasterer in for a day asap.
Structural engineers and court cases will cost far more than the repair will cost.
Win some, lose some.
Unfortunately, the checkout guy said this damage is outside the scope of what the deposit covers.Structural engineers and court cases will cost far more than the repair will cost.
Win some, lose some.
Agreed, the court case economics probably don't stack up but just wanted to explore options and confirm this via this post.
Edited by SpeedBash on Thursday 5th December 13:09
dirky dirk said:
god people utterly depress me
how can you do that
Yup and it's structural damage to the house which he decided not to declare when it happened.how can you do that
Jeremy-75qq8 said:
On what possible basis did the check out guy say it was out of scope ?
Apologies, I can't remember the context he gave but can update later once we get his report and speak to him again.fido said:
It might be worth installing a bollard/sign/dwarf, if your tenants make a frequent habit of parking there!
House needs a complete refurb and family member has indicated he will get the front garden block paved as well so have suggested some sort of barrier (secured into concrete) at the front. LimmerickLad said:
"How long between the tenant officially leaving / tenancy ending and the checkout inventory being undertaken? Same day?"
Reply "Tenant returned the key to us on Monday early evening - checkout inventory took place this morning which was the earliest appointment we could get".
Must have happened after I moved out honest guv...
"How long between the tenant officially leaving / tenancy ending and the checkout inventory being undertaken? Same day?"
Reply "Tenant returned the key to us on Monday early evening - checkout inventory took place this morning which was the earliest appointment we could get".
Must have happened after I moved out honest guv...
boyse7en said:
if you can dismantle a wall, clean the bricks, mix cement, rebuild the wall and render it in under 2 hours you can come and build my extension!
The wall (going off the photographs) doesn't need rebuilding, just six or seven bricks removing and relaying straight.Then the entire (small wall) rendering with sand and cement.
OK, 3/4 hours work.
Don't make a drama out of a crisis as the insurance ad used to say.
It's not as if a ten ton truck has ploughed through the wall.
- DISCLAIMER* I can only go off the photographs, the damage might be a lot worse on close inspection.
Gassing Station | Homes, Gardens and DIY | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff