Flakey Plumber - what would you have done?
Discussion
In the middle of Nov I posted a job on a find-a-tradesman site, after having no luck getting a response from the local handymen in the area. It's to replace an existing bi-fold shower door like for like.
One bathroom fitter replied, said he call in the following Monday to measure up & quote. He arrived, measured up and said I'll send a price over later that evening and as he had a quiet week he could do the job ob the Friday. He never sent the price that week nor did he turn up on the Friday. In fact there was no communication at all.
The following week, he sent over the price, I replied with okay, he later replied saying he'd be over on the Saturday. Saturday came and went, he didn't show up. By this point I was thinking 'Work has picked up and this job is perhaps too small for him now and he's backing out of it'.
The following week, he sent another message saying he'd been messed around by his supplier but he's now about to take delivery of the door, he'll come on Tuesday. Again, no show.
Yet another message the next week - he's now got the door, he'll be over on Saturday. Saturday came and went, no show. That was it as far I was concerned, I'd taken time off work waiting for him numerous times and he didn't even have the manners to let me know he couldn't make it after all.
He messaged yesterday saying 'I've now got the door, I'll be over Saturday morning'. My terse yet polite response was along the lines of don't bother, you've wasted enough of my time and tested my patience to the point I have no faith in you. Best you return the door and get your money back. He exclaimed surprise, said if I didn't want the job done I should have let him know and he wouldn't have bought the door. I reiterated the number of times he'd over-promised and underdelivered with zero consideration given to me when his plans continually changed and also said I did want the job done on at least 4 separate times but you failed to show, and now you've run out of chances.
It ended with him saying he'll send an invoice to cover the return costs, to which I said should I invoice you for the time taken off work? It wasn't meant seriously but I hoped it would help him see the trouble he's caused.
I'm not giving his invoice a second thought but I thought I'd see how others would have handled it.
Edited to add: he messaged to say he had the door 2 or 3 different times. One week he had it, yet the next message would say it was due to turn up. He was massively inconsistent.
One bathroom fitter replied, said he call in the following Monday to measure up & quote. He arrived, measured up and said I'll send a price over later that evening and as he had a quiet week he could do the job ob the Friday. He never sent the price that week nor did he turn up on the Friday. In fact there was no communication at all.
The following week, he sent over the price, I replied with okay, he later replied saying he'd be over on the Saturday. Saturday came and went, he didn't show up. By this point I was thinking 'Work has picked up and this job is perhaps too small for him now and he's backing out of it'.
The following week, he sent another message saying he'd been messed around by his supplier but he's now about to take delivery of the door, he'll come on Tuesday. Again, no show.
Yet another message the next week - he's now got the door, he'll be over on Saturday. Saturday came and went, no show. That was it as far I was concerned, I'd taken time off work waiting for him numerous times and he didn't even have the manners to let me know he couldn't make it after all.
He messaged yesterday saying 'I've now got the door, I'll be over Saturday morning'. My terse yet polite response was along the lines of don't bother, you've wasted enough of my time and tested my patience to the point I have no faith in you. Best you return the door and get your money back. He exclaimed surprise, said if I didn't want the job done I should have let him know and he wouldn't have bought the door. I reiterated the number of times he'd over-promised and underdelivered with zero consideration given to me when his plans continually changed and also said I did want the job done on at least 4 separate times but you failed to show, and now you've run out of chances.
It ended with him saying he'll send an invoice to cover the return costs, to which I said should I invoice you for the time taken off work? It wasn't meant seriously but I hoped it would help him see the trouble he's caused.
I'm not giving his invoice a second thought but I thought I'd see how others would have handled it.
Edited to add: he messaged to say he had the door 2 or 3 different times. One week he had it, yet the next message would say it was due to turn up. He was massively inconsistent.
Edited by username_checksout on Tuesday 10th December 08:54
I'm afraid it is just the toddler nature of many adults. They simply have no understanding because no one has ever bothered to teach them and this comes with a devout belief that everything is always someone else's fault.
You have to just rationalise this with the guess that such an adult is almost certainly going to do a half arsed job if they did ever turn up.
It's also very much the case that doing as much as you can yourself is, as it always has been to be honest, the best solution.
Consider this: If an absolute spud of an adult baby can fit a shower door if they happen to bother to turn up then why can't you?
The more jobs that you can do yourself the fewer times you have to waste your life being an unpaid carer for a loser.
You have to just rationalise this with the guess that such an adult is almost certainly going to do a half arsed job if they did ever turn up.
It's also very much the case that doing as much as you can yourself is, as it always has been to be honest, the best solution.
Consider this: If an absolute spud of an adult baby can fit a shower door if they happen to bother to turn up then why can't you?
The more jobs that you can do yourself the fewer times you have to waste your life being an unpaid carer for a loser.
DonkeyApple said:
I'm afraid it is just the toddler nature of many adults. They simply have no understanding because no one has ever bothered to teach them and this comes with a devout belief that everything is always someone else's fault.
You have to just rationalise this with the guess that such an adult is almost certainly going to do a half arsed job if they did ever turn up.
It's also very much the case that doing as much as you can yourself is, as it always has been to be honest, the best solution.
Consider this: If an absolute spud of an adult baby can fit a shower door if they happen to bother to turn up then why can't you?
The more jobs that you can do yourself the fewer times you have to waste your life being an unpaid carer for a loser.
Many Tradesmen simply chase the money, the easy jobs, and are inherently disorganised (Many, not all). I'm not excusing their behaviour for one minute, but this is generally a result of a huge supply/demand imbalance. They have been in such high demand for the best part of 15-20 years now, that they don't know any different. They can mess people about and still get more work than they could ever handle, and work that is priced firmly. They don't even realise they are doing anything wrong half the time, in fact, they often see it as doing you a favour if they eventually grace you with their presence even after messing you about.You have to just rationalise this with the guess that such an adult is almost certainly going to do a half arsed job if they did ever turn up.
It's also very much the case that doing as much as you can yourself is, as it always has been to be honest, the best solution.
Consider this: If an absolute spud of an adult baby can fit a shower door if they happen to bother to turn up then why can't you?
The more jobs that you can do yourself the fewer times you have to waste your life being an unpaid carer for a loser.
This mess all started when the message that everyone should go to university and be an 'educated office worker' was pushed relentlessly in the 90's. Successive governments have pretended that we don't need tradesmen for reasons that no one will ever understand. They made it un-cool, unfashionable, and undesirable to be a skilled manual worker.
This is the result. I think as a country, we are too far gone to rectify this any time soon. We will be suffering for decades.
As for doing it yourself, it's a nice idea, but most people don't own the tools or have the skills to do anything much in the way of DIY. I've previously built two engines before, and worked on a few small mechanical and electrical bits and pieces, but ask me to do any DIY and it comes out looking like modern art. It will be appalling. I also don't own any DIY tools. Just a screwdriver and socket set. There is no point in owning anything else.
From my observations, most people are worse than me and barely own a screwdriver or a hammer.
username_checksout said:
We're on the same page. I'm now going to learn how to do it myself and yes, if he had turned up to fit it, the contempt I have for him would have been hard to mask and then the thought of paying him after his terrible service is the final straw.
Had a similar scenario with a carpenter who was supposed to be building and installing some shelves on a landing. The first couple just never turned up as agreed and the one who did then bailed three times with 'dog ate my homework' toddler excuses and then had an absolute tantrum when politely told to just not bother and then was properly upset when told I wasn't going to pay £1500 to have something permanently in my home that reminded me every day what an utter loser he was. That was when he stopped answering back. In order to then meet the requirements of my wife I ended up buying a sheet of MDF for £50 and doing it myself using a hand saw and a single working day. Rather than the original 4 days and a van full of specialist equipment.
The truth is that some people just go through adult life devoutly believing that everyone else owes them and finding the normal people who just do a good job and meet basic communication and timing expectations can be hard to find.
The chap who hung our internal doors was one of them. Cheaper than all the other quotes. Communicated normally throughout, started at 8 had 5 doors done by lunchtime, asked if we minded if he ate his packed lunch on the drive before heading off to another £500 job in the afternoon. He was fully booked and doing a 6.5 day working week which said had got him a house deposit and was now paying his autistic son's school fees.
There are plenty of great tradespeople out there but sadly no shortage of whinging adult toddlers leaving a swathe of victims in their wake as they saunter through life demanding everyone else clean up after them.
LordGrover said:
Maybe offer to buy the door from him at cost?
It'll save him having to return it, and you get it at a reduced price - everyone's happy.
Judging by his tone on the last few messages I suspect he won't want to do me any favours. I can source a door easily enough so I was surprised when he kept blaming his suppliers.It'll save him having to return it, and you get it at a reduced price - everyone's happy.
I’ve recently had similar with a builder and roofer. Promising dates to turn up and then no shows.
What annoys me is that when they don’t show, they’re all over Facebook posting their latest work and how great they are on the day they’re supposed to be at mine!
I don’t mind if they are juggling work but at least have the common courtesy to let me know they can’t make it.
I’m reasonably handy at DIY but recently had a can’t be arsed attitude I’ll pay someone else. Now I think it’s time to break the tools out again.
What annoys me is that when they don’t show, they’re all over Facebook posting their latest work and how great they are on the day they’re supposed to be at mine!
I don’t mind if they are juggling work but at least have the common courtesy to let me know they can’t make it.
I’m reasonably handy at DIY but recently had a can’t be arsed attitude I’ll pay someone else. Now I think it’s time to break the tools out again.
Mont Blanc said:
Many Tradesmen simply chase the money, the easy jobs, and are inherently disorganised (Many, not all). I'm not excusing their behaviour for one minute, but this is generally a result of a huge supply/demand imbalance. They have been in such high demand for the best part of 15-20 years now, that they don't know any different. They can mess people about and still get more work than they could ever handle, and work that is priced firmly. They don't even realise they are doing anything wrong half the time, in fact, they often see it as doing you a favour if they eventually grace you with their presence even after messing you about.
This mess all started when the message that everyone should go to university and be an 'educated office worker' was pushed relentlessly in the 90's. Successive governments have pretended that we don't need tradesmen for reasons that no one will ever understand. They made it un-cool, unfashionable, and undesirable to be a skilled manual worker.
This is the result. I think as a country, we are too far gone to rectify this any time soon. We will be suffering for decades.
As for doing it yourself, it's a nice idea, but most people don't own the tools or have the skills to do anything much in the way of DIY. I've previously built two engines before, and worked on a few small mechanical and electrical bits and pieces, but ask me to do any DIY and it comes out looking like modern art. It will be appalling. I also don't own any DIY tools. Just a screwdriver and socket set. There is no point in owning anything else.
From my observations, most people are worse than me and barely own a screwdriver or a hammer.
Yup. There's arguably many factors at work as well as those. This mess all started when the message that everyone should go to university and be an 'educated office worker' was pushed relentlessly in the 90's. Successive governments have pretended that we don't need tradesmen for reasons that no one will ever understand. They made it un-cool, unfashionable, and undesirable to be a skilled manual worker.
This is the result. I think as a country, we are too far gone to rectify this any time soon. We will be suffering for decades.
As for doing it yourself, it's a nice idea, but most people don't own the tools or have the skills to do anything much in the way of DIY. I've previously built two engines before, and worked on a few small mechanical and electrical bits and pieces, but ask me to do any DIY and it comes out looking like modern art. It will be appalling. I also don't own any DIY tools. Just a screwdriver and socket set. There is no point in owning anything else.
From my observations, most people are worse than me and barely own a screwdriver or a hammer.
No one tells someone they're s
t at their job any more. Many people are raised with no viable role model setting an example. People are brainwashed to think they're special instead of plain, boring, normal. And I suspect resentment has a robust grip of losers, along with a delusion with regards to raining money. It's just easier to believe in fairies, lizard people and stay poor than it is to work and behave normally and capitalise on one of the greatest eras ever for making huge money just from doing what you agree to do. But blame also needs to rest on the other side where so many people want more things done but aren't willing to learn to do it themselves. It's like the ready meal delusion people buy into that they're just far too busy to cook when we all deep down know that we reach for a ready meal because we can't be arsed to cook that day.
Given the high cost of trades now and the high risk of loser engagement one would think there would be an enormous social shift back to people finding out how to do this stuff for themselves? YT i a phenomenal resource of people willing to show how jobs are done and Amazon delivers missing tools quite quickly.
We had a leaky kitchen tap, parts no longer available.
It's a complicated amount of copper pipes under there and means dismantling some of it to able to get to remove the old one, beyond my skills.
Four Local plumbers from a pamphlet through the door, two semi retired who you'd think would know how to do it, of the four 2 decided it sounded too complicated, one was 'too busy' the last one, one of the semi retired said you get the tap and i'll come and fix it for you, four hours and three trips to the merchants later he'd done it. £200 for labour and another £50 for parts.
At least this one is easy to replace if needed, Bristan easyfit, two spigots sit above the sink top, undo two allen screws and it lifts off.
It's a complicated amount of copper pipes under there and means dismantling some of it to able to get to remove the old one, beyond my skills.
Four Local plumbers from a pamphlet through the door, two semi retired who you'd think would know how to do it, of the four 2 decided it sounded too complicated, one was 'too busy' the last one, one of the semi retired said you get the tap and i'll come and fix it for you, four hours and three trips to the merchants later he'd done it. £200 for labour and another £50 for parts.
At least this one is easy to replace if needed, Bristan easyfit, two spigots sit above the sink top, undo two allen screws and it lifts off.
DonkeyApple said:
Given the high cost of trades now and the high risk of loser engagement one would think there would be an enormous social shift back to people finding out how to do this stuff for themselves? YT i a phenomenal resource of people willing to show how jobs are done and Amazon delivers missing tools quite quickly.
I think that a lot of people have been brought up to think that they can't do things (or perhaps that certain things are "below them"). It amazes me how many of my friends will call a plumber/builder/handyman/mechanic for the simplest of tasks. Some of these tasks aren't worth the effort of a professional which is probably why they mess people around so much.As an example, our neighbours didn't know how to paint a room and were panicking when they couldn't find somebody to paint their hallway because it was too small a job. When I suggested that they just do it themselves, they looked at me as though I was some kind of heretic.
...And no I didn't offer to do it for them.
Edited by LennyM1984 on Tuesday 10th December 15:33
Edited by LennyM1984 on Tuesday 10th December 15:37
LennyM1984 said:
I think that a lot of people have been brought up to think that they can't do things (or perhaps that certain things are "below them"). It amazes me how many of my friends will call a plumber/builder/handyman/mechanic for the simplest of tasks. Some of these tasks aren't worth the effort of a professional which is probably why they mess people around so much.
As an example, our neighbours didn't know how to paint a room and were panicking when they couldn't find somebody to paint their hallway because it was too small a job. When I suggested that they just do it themselves, they looked at me as though I was some kind of heretic.
...And no I didn't offer to do it for them.
[
Definitely met a fair few people over the years who can't do basic diy because they can't emotionally cope with doing tasks that some random stranger might think to be lower middle, little realising they instead come across as being a shopping bunny rather than a power playa. As an example, our neighbours didn't know how to paint a room and were panicking when they couldn't find somebody to paint their hallway because it was too small a job. When I suggested that they just do it themselves, they looked at me as though I was some kind of heretic.
...And no I didn't offer to do it for them.
[
But then one must consider whether this is any different to their father's being seemingly proud to claim they can't cook, when it's one of the simplest tasks after moving a vacuum around a room and in reality they're publicly proclaiming their stupidity opposed to any statement of manliness.
netherfield said:
We had a leaky kitchen tap, parts no longer available.
It's a complicated amount of copper pipes under there and means dismantling some of it to able to get to remove the old one, beyond my skills.
Four Local plumbers from a pamphlet through the door, two semi retired who you'd think would know how to do it, of the four 2 decided it sounded too complicated, one was 'too busy' the last one, one of the semi retired said you get the tap and i'll come and fix it for you, four hours and three trips to the merchants later he'd done it. £200 for labour and another £50 for parts.
At least this one is easy to replace if needed, Bristan easyfit, two spigots sit above the sink top, undo two allen screws and it lifts off.
Be careful with that, too many stories online of people finding that it lifts off a little too easily. It's a complicated amount of copper pipes under there and means dismantling some of it to able to get to remove the old one, beyond my skills.
Four Local plumbers from a pamphlet through the door, two semi retired who you'd think would know how to do it, of the four 2 decided it sounded too complicated, one was 'too busy' the last one, one of the semi retired said you get the tap and i'll come and fix it for you, four hours and three trips to the merchants later he'd done it. £200 for labour and another £50 for parts.
At least this one is easy to replace if needed, Bristan easyfit, two spigots sit above the sink top, undo two allen screws and it lifts off.
Arrivalist said:
LordGrover said:
Maybe offer to buy the door from him at cost?
It'll save him having to return it, and you get it at a reduced price - everyone's happy.
I’m not sure I believe he’s actually got a door, of any kind.It'll save him having to return it, and you get it at a reduced price - everyone's happy.
From the outset, I would have got 3 quotes. And if he let you down within 5 minutes, then I'd move on to the next. Whilst a lot of them behave like this, I do have a couple of trades (YOUNG ADULTS, believe it or not) on my phone who are perfectly reliable. I sometimes feel like sending them money just to keep them keen.
Also, I wouldn't now trust your guy to get the work done within a reasonable time or bother to rectify any issues after you've paid him, so there's no point in continuing. I'm tempted to say that you ought to let him know exactly why you're not going ahead but he probably doesn't have that level of conscious awareness. In fact, he sounds like the sort of person who probably shouts at the mirror in the bathroom wondering who the hell has broken into his home, he's that unaware of his actions.
Also, I wouldn't now trust your guy to get the work done within a reasonable time or bother to rectify any issues after you've paid him, so there's no point in continuing. I'm tempted to say that you ought to let him know exactly why you're not going ahead but he probably doesn't have that level of conscious awareness. In fact, he sounds like the sort of person who probably shouts at the mirror in the bathroom wondering who the hell has broken into his home, he's that unaware of his actions.
Edited by Hoofy on Tuesday 10th December 16:31
DonkeyApple said:
'...and then was properly upset when told I wasn't going to pay £1500 to have something permanently in my home that reminded me every day what an utter loser he was...
[From the book 'Making Friends and Influencing People' by Donkey Apple, published by Penguin Books 2016] 
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