Old Avro to Octopus SoLR issue
Discussion
I was with Avro about £350 in debt.
They failed.
Octopus took over and for the ~ 14 days I was with them and we subsequently moved house (new build with BG) I had a balance to pay of about £80.
I made that “final payment” on Dec 21, account zeroed, all done.
Then in late March 22 I had a statement saying zero… again, great.
Then on the next day I once again had a debt of about £80 (exact figure I paid in Dec 21)
Sometime between Dec and Mar an ‘avro’ debt was added to the account of £350 ish.
All quiet till today, I have a text saying I owe about £80.
I call them and they explain my issue, and they say my £80 payment really paid off some of the avro debt, and not the payment to them for energy used, despite at the time the avro debt not existing.
If I login and try pay off the avro debt it is indeed £350 ish, despite the main landing page suggesting £270 ish (£350 - £80)
Their ‘payment history’ now starts with an avro debt, but as noted at the time this wasn’t a thing, this arrived many months later.
Needless to say Octopus seem good and I may want to use them again.
However I can’t while this issue needs resolving (could always start the new acct in wife’s name, but using old bank cards?)
The main concern is, didn’t receivers for avro energy write all this off, and is why we’ve been paying higher energy prices for years via standing charges etc?
Did Octopus really take on this debt?
Did they just take it on in a manner that let them pass it to receivers against avros debts?
IF I pay now, who gets this money? Do octopus just get a chunk of free money? Does it go to an ofgem fund so slowly but surely our bills revert to normal sooner?
I’m all for paying my debts, but I don’t want to give money to people who aren’t owed anything.
They failed.
Octopus took over and for the ~ 14 days I was with them and we subsequently moved house (new build with BG) I had a balance to pay of about £80.
I made that “final payment” on Dec 21, account zeroed, all done.
Then in late March 22 I had a statement saying zero… again, great.
Then on the next day I once again had a debt of about £80 (exact figure I paid in Dec 21)
Sometime between Dec and Mar an ‘avro’ debt was added to the account of £350 ish.
All quiet till today, I have a text saying I owe about £80.
I call them and they explain my issue, and they say my £80 payment really paid off some of the avro debt, and not the payment to them for energy used, despite at the time the avro debt not existing.
If I login and try pay off the avro debt it is indeed £350 ish, despite the main landing page suggesting £270 ish (£350 - £80)
Their ‘payment history’ now starts with an avro debt, but as noted at the time this wasn’t a thing, this arrived many months later.
Needless to say Octopus seem good and I may want to use them again.
However I can’t while this issue needs resolving (could always start the new acct in wife’s name, but using old bank cards?)
The main concern is, didn’t receivers for avro energy write all this off, and is why we’ve been paying higher energy prices for years via standing charges etc?
Did Octopus really take on this debt?
Did they just take it on in a manner that let them pass it to receivers against avros debts?
IF I pay now, who gets this money? Do octopus just get a chunk of free money? Does it go to an ofgem fund so slowly but surely our bills revert to normal sooner?
I’m all for paying my debts, but I don’t want to give money to people who aren’t owed anything.
Interesting, after almost four years they're now seemingly chasing on this, with threats of credit reference reports.
It also seems that they've revised the "final bill" (different to my final bill from at the time), now it contains the 'avro debt repayment' in a separate section, and the bill I actually paid to zero Octopus at the time just after we moved was now itemised under a debt repayment.
From some cursory reading it seems that they're unable to suddenly chase these types of debts after so long a period. Ie, what if I'd died and my estate had been settled.
Frustratingly it looks like they're going to be a pain, and I don't have the time for letters and them hanging up the phone etc. Nor do I really want to get into paying a solicitor to tell them to p
s off (if indeed that is an option)
My gripe is with Octopus pursuing money which I simply don't think they're owed.
It also seems that they've revised the "final bill" (different to my final bill from at the time), now it contains the 'avro debt repayment' in a separate section, and the bill I actually paid to zero Octopus at the time just after we moved was now itemised under a debt repayment.
From some cursory reading it seems that they're unable to suddenly chase these types of debts after so long a period. Ie, what if I'd died and my estate had been settled.
Frustratingly it looks like they're going to be a pain, and I don't have the time for letters and them hanging up the phone etc. Nor do I really want to get into paying a solicitor to tell them to p
s off (if indeed that is an option)My gripe is with Octopus pursuing money which I simply don't think they're owed.
Pay your debt...
"If you were in debt to your old supplier
If you were paying a debt to your old supplier you’ll still have to pay this back.
Wait for your new supplier to contact you. If they’re taking on your debt, they’ll let you know.
If the new supplier isn’t taking on your debt, you’ll have to pay an administrator instead - this is an organisation that takes over a company that goes bust."
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/energy/...
Why should everybody else pay for your utilities?
"If you were in debt to your old supplier
If you were paying a debt to your old supplier you’ll still have to pay this back.
Wait for your new supplier to contact you. If they’re taking on your debt, they’ll let you know.
If the new supplier isn’t taking on your debt, you’ll have to pay an administrator instead - this is an organisation that takes over a company that goes bust."
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/energy/...
Why should everybody else pay for your utilities?
https://octopus.energy/avro/
Octopus have taken on the debt from Avro. If you owed Avro, you now owe Octopus:
"When energy companies go out of business and administrators are appointed, the right to collect ‘debt’ owing to that company is passed to the administrators on behalf of the company. This can make it more complicated for customers.
Now we have agreed to take on the debt balances from the administrators, Avro customers will be able to have a single joined up conversation with Octopus about payments and account balances. It also now means that money that has been collected since the Administrators were appointed and which has been held by an intermediary that manages Direct Debits will be released to Octopus."
Octopus have taken on the debt from Avro. If you owed Avro, you now owe Octopus:
"When energy companies go out of business and administrators are appointed, the right to collect ‘debt’ owing to that company is passed to the administrators on behalf of the company. This can make it more complicated for customers.
Now we have agreed to take on the debt balances from the administrators, Avro customers will be able to have a single joined up conversation with Octopus about payments and account balances. It also now means that money that has been collected since the Administrators were appointed and which has been held by an intermediary that manages Direct Debits will be released to Octopus."
Ah that's a good link https://octopus.energy/avro/
I'm certain I didn't see these at the time but I think I'd ultimately paid my 'final bill' and left it at that by that point. Even Octopus' own billing still said 'ok' by early March with a zero balance.
It's just taking them years to get around to asking for it back, after me having moved house almost immediately after being sent to them as SoLR... (I'd have actually used Octopus at the new place but they weren't taking on new customers back then, I don't think anyone was due to the caps often losing them money)
Thanks for the info, I did call them, and look online (MSE and CA) but the actual Octopus link reads as trustworthy enough for me to send them money now.
Out of interest though, how is it we're all paying higher standing charges because of all this, if the debts could be pursued and taken back, or were more often than not passed on to the SoLR?
It'd make for interesting reading knowing where all that money went.
I'm certain I didn't see these at the time but I think I'd ultimately paid my 'final bill' and left it at that by that point. Even Octopus' own billing still said 'ok' by early March with a zero balance.
Octopus Website said:
UPDATE FRIDAY 26TH NOVEMBER
We have now formalised our agreement with Avro's administrators and most importantly for customers, have agreed to take on the debit balances for customers who were on supply with Avro when the company went out of business.
When energy companies go out of business and administrators are appointed, the right to collect ‘debt’ owing to that company is passed to the administrators on behalf of the company. This can make it more complicated for customers.
Now we have agreed to take on the debt balances from the administrators, Avro customers will be able to have a single joined up conversation with Octopus about payments and account balances. It also now means that money that has been collected since the Administrators were appointed and which has been held by an intermediary that manages Direct Debits will be released to Octopus.
When you receive your final bill it will show what your balance is with Avro when they ceased trading on the 26th September and any balance (debit or credit) will appear in your Octopus Energy account at the same time.
We started issuing final bills to Avro customers for their time with Avro on Tuesday - we produced 100 as a test so we could manually check them carefully. On Wednesday we produced 1,000 and yesterday we successfully produced 10,000. Today we will produce 20,000 and then if all goes well, start to accelerate further from there and aim to get all final bills out over the next few weeks.
Clearly they did take on the debt, and so yes I owe it to them.We have now formalised our agreement with Avro's administrators and most importantly for customers, have agreed to take on the debit balances for customers who were on supply with Avro when the company went out of business.
When energy companies go out of business and administrators are appointed, the right to collect ‘debt’ owing to that company is passed to the administrators on behalf of the company. This can make it more complicated for customers.
Now we have agreed to take on the debt balances from the administrators, Avro customers will be able to have a single joined up conversation with Octopus about payments and account balances. It also now means that money that has been collected since the Administrators were appointed and which has been held by an intermediary that manages Direct Debits will be released to Octopus.
When you receive your final bill it will show what your balance is with Avro when they ceased trading on the 26th September and any balance (debit or credit) will appear in your Octopus Energy account at the same time.
We started issuing final bills to Avro customers for their time with Avro on Tuesday - we produced 100 as a test so we could manually check them carefully. On Wednesday we produced 1,000 and yesterday we successfully produced 10,000. Today we will produce 20,000 and then if all goes well, start to accelerate further from there and aim to get all final bills out over the next few weeks.
It's just taking them years to get around to asking for it back, after me having moved house almost immediately after being sent to them as SoLR... (I'd have actually used Octopus at the new place but they weren't taking on new customers back then, I don't think anyone was due to the caps often losing them money)
Thanks for the info, I did call them, and look online (MSE and CA) but the actual Octopus link reads as trustworthy enough for me to send them money now.
Out of interest though, how is it we're all paying higher standing charges because of all this, if the debts could be pursued and taken back, or were more often than not passed on to the SoLR?
It'd make for interesting reading knowing where all that money went.
Mr Whippy said:
Clearly they did take on the debt, and so yes I owe it to them.
It's just taking them years to get around to asking for it back, after me having moved house almost immediately after being sent to them as SoLR... (I'd have actually used Octopus at the new place but they weren't taking on new customers back then, I don't think anyone was due to the caps often losing them money)
Thanks for the info, I did call them, and look online (MSE and CA) but the actual Octopus link reads as trustworthy enough for me to send them money now.
Out of interest though, how is it we're all paying higher standing charges because of all this, if the debts could be pursued and taken back, or were more often than not passed on to the SoLR?
It'd make for interesting reading knowing where all that money went.
Those companies entered insolvency with negative value, the standing charge money doesn't cover people like you not paying (as it was debt that would be recovered as you are finding out). It's just taking them years to get around to asking for it back, after me having moved house almost immediately after being sent to them as SoLR... (I'd have actually used Octopus at the new place but they weren't taking on new customers back then, I don't think anyone was due to the caps often losing them money)
Thanks for the info, I did call them, and look online (MSE and CA) but the actual Octopus link reads as trustworthy enough for me to send them money now.
Out of interest though, how is it we're all paying higher standing charges because of all this, if the debts could be pursued and taken back, or were more often than not passed on to the SoLR?
It'd make for interesting reading knowing where all that money went.
Yeah fair play, had I not moved almost immediately after it’d have been a non-issue.
Instead it seems it took some months after SoLR was invoked for all the account info and balances to trickle in etc.
I’ll call them tomorrow and see if I can get a final invoice and some kind of ‘sign off’ on the account so they don’t keep haunting me with further association to it… then I can hopefully start fresh when we move!
Thanks again all for advice/help!
Instead it seems it took some months after SoLR was invoked for all the account info and balances to trickle in etc.
I’ll call them tomorrow and see if I can get a final invoice and some kind of ‘sign off’ on the account so they don’t keep haunting me with further association to it… then I can hopefully start fresh when we move!
Thanks again all for advice/help!
I had an issue similar to this but it was Avro's fault as they had incorrectly calculated the opening gas reading (BG gave them the closing reading, they disregarded it, claimed it was 0 and then charged me for every unit of gas the meter had um... metered since it was commissioned!!)
Octopus reckoned I owed them in excess of £1k, I begged to differ and after a few emails back and forth, they figured out they actually owed me about £25.
Now, a number of years later - I still have my Octopus dashboard branded with "Your Avro Repayment Plan: Remaining to pay - £0".
Octopus reckoned I owed them in excess of £1k, I begged to differ and after a few emails back and forth, they figured out they actually owed me about £25.
Now, a number of years later - I still have my Octopus dashboard branded with "Your Avro Repayment Plan: Remaining to pay - £0".
Just for those wondering, I settled this with Octopus today.
It took four calls though.
First call they hung up.
Second call they noted the issue, spent a lot of time, said it'd get sorted later, then never heard back for days.
Third call they hung up when I said their ledger system was wrong.
Fourth call finally got a great chap who sorted it all out, reverted the account to 'zero' (they'd been increasingly persistent and aggressive in saying I'd get a bad credit rating and action if I didn't pay immediately), and then added the difference back to the 'avro' debt.
Then I could just pay the full oustanding avro debt in one go.
Fingers crossed it's now all settled and the account remains at zero.
Looking back at it fully it really was a mess, likely quite a few people who were moving to new builds and with Avro or Bulb ended up caught in this mess where they closed off accounts that were seemingly zero'd off, only to find them re-activated 6mo later with the 'credit' now a 'debt' and the supplier trying to add debt to their energy ledger to pay off the debt on their SoLR debt ledger...
Hopefully something we don't see again in the UK. What a farce.
But at least Octopus now seemingly are happy.
I'd quite like solar and a battery at the new place so having Octopus for their great tarrifs is going to be useful!
It took four calls though.
First call they hung up.
Second call they noted the issue, spent a lot of time, said it'd get sorted later, then never heard back for days.
Third call they hung up when I said their ledger system was wrong.
Fourth call finally got a great chap who sorted it all out, reverted the account to 'zero' (they'd been increasingly persistent and aggressive in saying I'd get a bad credit rating and action if I didn't pay immediately), and then added the difference back to the 'avro' debt.
Then I could just pay the full oustanding avro debt in one go.
Fingers crossed it's now all settled and the account remains at zero.
Looking back at it fully it really was a mess, likely quite a few people who were moving to new builds and with Avro or Bulb ended up caught in this mess where they closed off accounts that were seemingly zero'd off, only to find them re-activated 6mo later with the 'credit' now a 'debt' and the supplier trying to add debt to their energy ledger to pay off the debt on their SoLR debt ledger...
Hopefully something we don't see again in the UK. What a farce.
But at least Octopus now seemingly are happy.
I'd quite like solar and a battery at the new place so having Octopus for their great tarrifs is going to be useful!
We were with Avro when they went tits up and was then moved to octopus. We were £263 in credit with them and I thought we had kissed that goodbye …… but octopus took on the credit even though it was at a loss to them as we had never paid any money to them .
Fair play to octopus and we have stayed with them since.
Fair play to octopus and we have stayed with them since.
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