Quantity Surveyor pricing - am I being unreasonable?

[Consigliere]

Had a few quotes from builders regarding a single storey rear extension, nothing fancy, rear extension with a bathroom downstairs.

One builder for his quote got a QS to cost it up, and then sent me the QS actual costings, based on that i can see that a plumber costs £60.57+vat/hr, electrician £51.92+vat/hr and labourer £25.96+vat/hr.

im based in the west midlands, plumber and electrician day rates are around £235-£265 approx inclusive of VAT, and nearly £26/hr for a labourer seems generous imo.

As an example the QS has quoted for a plumber to attend to cap off gas and water as part of the demolition phase (old kitchen being demolished) for 4 hours, thats £290 (£242.28 + £48.45vat)

Does this sound about right or am i out of touch?

[Lotobear]

Consigliere said:

Had a few quotes from builders regarding a single storey rear extension, nothing fancy, rear extension with a bathroom downstairs.

One builder for his quote got a QS to cost it up, and then sent me the QS actual costings, based on that i can see that a plumber costs £60.57+vat/hr, electrician £51.92+vat/hr and labourer £25.96+vat/hr.

im based in the west midlands, plumber and electrician day rates are around £235-£265 approx inclusive of VAT, and nearly £26/hr for a labourer seems generous imo.

As an example the QS has quoted for a plumber to attend to cap off gas and water as part of the demolition phase (old kitchen being demolished) for 4 hours, thats £290 (£242.28 + £48.45vat)

Does this sound about right or am i out of touch?

Are those rates inclusive of the main contractors overheads and profit?

[Douglas Quaid]

Isn’t it better to err on the side of caution? Last time I had a plumber here he charged a day rate. He had a nightmare and was here for hours longer than he thought he was going to be, but luckily wouldn’t accept any more pay than his quoted price.

These things happen so I’d always budget a bit more in than you think you’ll need then add some more on top of that.

[LimmerickLad]

How does the quote compare with the others you got?

[Consigliere]

Lotobear said:

Are those rates inclusive of the main contractors overheads and profit?

There is no line entry for overheads and certainly nothing for profit, so i am assuming yes.

Douglas Quaid said:

Isn t it better to err on the side of caution? Last time I had a plumber here he charged a day rate. He had a nightmare and was here for hours longer than he thought he was going to be, but luckily wouldn t accept any more pay than his quoted price.

These things happen so I d always budget a bit more in than you think you ll need then add some more on top of that.

im not querying the length of time, im querying the cost/hr.

LimmerickLad said:

How does the quote compare with the others you got?

out of the three i have, its the highest, but its the only one with a proper breakdown, the othes have been a few pages and a quote, this one is 12 pages fully broken down - and thus i can query it

Edited by Consigliere on Monday 14th July 12:53

[119]

Consigliere said:

Lotobear said:

Are those rates inclusive of the main contractors overheads and profit?

There is no line entry for overheads and certainly nothing for profit, so i am assuming yes.

Douglas Quaid said:

Isn t it better to err on the side of caution? Last time I had a plumber here he charged a day rate. He had a nightmare and was here for hours longer than he thought he was going to be, but luckily wouldn t accept any more pay than his quoted price.

These things happen so I d always budget a bit more in than you think you ll need then add some more on top of that.

im not querying the length of time, im querying the cost/hr.

LimmerickLad said:

How does the quote compare with the others you got?

out of the three i have, its the highest, but its the only one with a proper breakdown, the othes have been a few pages and a quote, this one is 12 pages fully broken down - and thus i can query it

Edited by Consigliere on Monday 14th July 12:53

What do you think their rates should be?

[Lotobear]

Consigliere said:

Lotobear said:

Are those rates inclusive of the main contractors overheads and profit?

There is no line entry for overheads and certainly nothing for profit, so i am assuming yes.

Douglas Quaid said:

Isn t it better to err on the side of caution? Last time I had a plumber here he charged a day rate. He had a nightmare and was here for hours longer than he thought he was going to be, but luckily wouldn t accept any more pay than his quoted price.

These things happen so I d always budget a bit more in than you think you ll need then add some more on top of that.

im not querying the length of time, im querying the cost/hr.

LimmerickLad said:

How does the quote compare with the others you got?

out of the three i have, its the highest, but its the only one with a proper breakdown, the othes have been a few pages and a quote, this one is 12 pages fully broken down - and thus i can query it

Edited by Consigliere on Monday 14th July 12:53

Those rates are not unreasonable IMO if they are inclusive of OH&P

[Consigliere]

119 said:

What do you think their rates should be?

As i mentioned earlier in the post

"One builder for his quote got a QS to cost it up, and then sent me the QS actual costings, based on that i can see that a plumber costs £60.57+vat/hr....

im based in the west midlands, plumber and electrician day rates are around £235-£265 approx inclusive of VAT"

[fat80b]

Consigliere said:

im based in the west midlands, plumber and electrician day rates are around £235-£265 approx inclusive of VAT"

How up to date is that day rate / pricing? You are not comparing pre-covid day rates vs today's quotes are you?

Round our way, £260 is the day rate for a basic handyman off facebook, but a proper gas safe plumber / electrician charges way more than £250 per day.

I'd be surprised if you really can get a trade for <£200 per day (once the vat is taken off?)....

[LimmerickLad]

Will you be doing it on some form of JCT or similar contract? if there isn't much difference in price I'd be more worried about engaging a builder that wouldn't agree to this than saiving a few quid..at least you have an itemised breakdown from the one with a QS so should be no surprise 'extras'

[Prisoner 24601]

There is a world of difference between the rates within the commercial construction sector, and the local domestic market.

I believe the hourly rate for an approved electrician in London is circa £30/hr. But that all goes out the window for the local domestic market. Just thinking of recent local experience I have in our house, if I needed some electrical work undertaken and it took the guy 3 hrs and the work was good, and the cost was £160....that'd be a bargain.

[Chumley.mouse]

£200 quid a day for a labourer? Not sure I have ever heard of any of them on a grand a week .

Just over a year ago I paid £ 200 a day for a bricklayer, £240 a day for a plasterer, the electrician was here about 5 hours in total and charged £190 including certificate.

Single story extension and I’m also midlands.

[Prisoner 24601]

@Chumley - isn't that the difference between a charge out rate and a cost rate?

I.e. I own a construction company, i employ labourers, the Client pays me £200 a day, I pay the Labourer £120 per day.

[GT03ROB]

Consigliere said:

Had a few quotes from builders regarding a single storey rear extension, nothing fancy, rear extension with a bathroom downstairs.

One builder for his quote got a QS to cost it up, and then sent me the QS actual costings, based on that i can see that a plumber costs £60.57+vat/hr, electrician £51.92+vat/hr and labourer £25.96+vat/hr. nearly £26/hr for a labourer seems generous imo.


Does this sound about right or am i out of touch?

£26 / hr for a labourer, sounds not far off. Minimum wage is what £12.50/hr, pay a bit over that for what is labour, say £15, add on normal costs of employment, employers NI, etc, etc. another couple of quid, say £17. Add small tools, consumables, then overhead, then profit..... you soon reach £26.

[LooneyTunes]

Consigliere said:

"One builder for his quote got a QS to cost it up, and then sent me the QS actual costings, based on that i can see that a plumber costs £60.57+vat/hr....”

Not “a QS”. His QS.

One project that I’ve had done at home saw two bidders send in their QS’s costings. Padded would be putting it mildly.

When quizzed the QS claimed not to have ever heard of volumetric/mix-on-site cement trucks (there was a lot of “min order value” stuff around concrete) and couldn’t explain how he’d arrived at some figures. IIRC there was over £5k for propping elements of the structure when all that was needed was a few acros / strong boys.

What was noticeable was that quite a few line items seemed to be a whisker on the high side but within a band where you’d struggle to chip off the extra £50-100 here and there. But all those little bits certainly did it all add up…

Douglas Quaid said:

Isn t it better to err on the side of caution? Last time I had a plumber here he charged a day rate. He had a nightmare and was here for hours longer than he thought he was going to be, but luckily wouldn t accept any more pay than his quoted price.

These things happen so I d always budget a bit more in than you think you ll need then add some more on top of that.

I’d wager it’s not a budget he’s been provided with but rather a justification of the costs proposed. If it gets done quicker (which quite a bit might) or cheaper then that’s likely iall into the pocket of the main contractor.

The other thing to watch for is that QS list becoming the job spec, with changes charged extra.

The only way to get a proper idea is to cost it up yourself…

[Consigliere]

Thanks for all the input guys, agree with its his QS and i feel some prices might be slightly padded.

just had a look at the other areas, and to board and skim walls 173sqm and ceilings 54sqm its coming to £8928.900 (£7440.75 + £1488.15vat)

dont know if this is reasonable or not - however if its a bit on the high side, it gives me a bit of a bargaining position i guess.

[Lotobear]

Is the work to be done on a schedule of rates basis, subject to revaluation, or are the figures you mention a breakdown of a firm price tender?

If it's the latter, and you are happy with the tender sum, then the rates are largely irrelevant provided there is limited scope for variations/additional work.

[Consigliere]

Lotobear said:

Is the work to be done on a schedule of rates basis, subject to revaluation, or are the figures you mention a breakdown of a firm price tender?

If it's the latter, and you are happy with the tender sum, then the rates are largely irrelevant provided there is limited scope for variations/additional work.

Breakdown of a firm price - this is what the QS has said, thats what he is quoting.

[Consigliere]

LooneyTunes said:

Consigliere said:

"One builder for his quote got a QS to cost it up, and then sent me the QS actual costings, based on that i can see that a plumber costs £60.57+vat/hr....

What was noticeable was that quite a few line items seemed to be a whisker on the high side but within a band where you d struggle to chip off the extra £50-100 here and there. But all those little bits certainly did it all add up

The last bit you said made me query something, and i think the QS or the builder know this and assume the customer doesnt. People might say im being pedantic but i think it confirms my assumption thats the prices are inflated somewhat.

as an example Passlode nails, 161 nails required - the QS has costed 1 box of 2200 nails at £108 + vat.

2 points;
a) boxes of 1100 are available, so why not list that
b) having a quick google a box of 2200 can be had for aprox £60 + vat

similar other things such as 1.0mm 4 core & earth cable, 5m required but the QS has ordered a 50m roll (no doubt the builder will have excess cable from other jobs and use that).

If i do go ahead with him, i might have a little playful ribbing at the end and ask if I can have the remaining 45m of cable i have paid for.

[LimmerickLad]

Are there any items you think the QS may have underpriced?

eta this post having X'd with your last post..........as an ex-builder I'd run a mile from your job.