Concealed Cistern. How to fix or Change the system
Discussion
We moved to our current house (5 years ago) where the downstairs toilet Cistern is concealed and the only access I could find is the small cabinet under the sink as shown in the Photo.
In the past 2 months, filling up the cistern has become very slow and takes around 20 minutes to fill up.
How can go about fixing this? Anyone has experience with this kind of Concealed Cistern? I'll like to know my options before calling a plumber.
Thanks
In the past 2 months, filling up the cistern has become very slow and takes around 20 minutes to fill up.
How can go about fixing this? Anyone has experience with this kind of Concealed Cistern? I'll like to know my options before calling a plumber.
Thanks
Slow fill might (if it's like the ones I had put in) be blockage at an valve inlet filter insert rather than a problem in the valve itself.
Though equally it might just be a tired valve sticking.
Either way you still need to get in which on that looks like it would be through the top as it doesn't have a panel type flush as access.
Though equally it might just be a tired valve sticking.
Either way you still need to get in which on that looks like it would be through the top as it doesn't have a panel type flush as access.
mdw said:
Check that the tile above the top of the toilet sn't held in with silicone if it is cut that out and that will be your access panel. If it isn't and is grouted then it was installed by an idiot who assumed it would never need accessing.
I check it few weeks ago when I saw something similar on YouTube, but there's none. I just took pictures of the Top and the bottom cabinetI had a similar problem, if anything mine was initially better and got worse. You’re not going to like the answer.
I had a hatch on the top and was able to get into the cistern and get the top off it. The cause of the slow fill was that the diaphragm on the fill valve had aged and wasn’t opening fully. Replacing it got the fill rate up and solved the problem.
The “getting worse” bit was that soon after, the diaphragm on the bottom of the syphon failed, meaning it wouldn’t flush at all. To fix that I had to get to the bottom of the cistern and that proved almost impossible. The concealment was plasterboard with small tiles, so I initially tried to get the grout out with a view to cutting it. That failed and I ended up going at it with a circular saw. There are shrapnel marks on the wall now where bits of ceramic got ejected from the saw. Managed to re-attach my new access hatch using a couple of repair plates and tile grout, so it looks ok. Also fitted a demountable syphon so next time it’s 2 clips to get to the diaphragm.
In short, you’re f
ked. Either accept you’re going to be cutting to get to the cistern or budget for a new bathroom. If you do get another fitted bathroom, make sure it’s one where the panelling around the cistern is removable.
All this over a part worth literally pennies.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news
I had a hatch on the top and was able to get into the cistern and get the top off it. The cause of the slow fill was that the diaphragm on the fill valve had aged and wasn’t opening fully. Replacing it got the fill rate up and solved the problem.
The “getting worse” bit was that soon after, the diaphragm on the bottom of the syphon failed, meaning it wouldn’t flush at all. To fix that I had to get to the bottom of the cistern and that proved almost impossible. The concealment was plasterboard with small tiles, so I initially tried to get the grout out with a view to cutting it. That failed and I ended up going at it with a circular saw. There are shrapnel marks on the wall now where bits of ceramic got ejected from the saw. Managed to re-attach my new access hatch using a couple of repair plates and tile grout, so it looks ok. Also fitted a demountable syphon so next time it’s 2 clips to get to the diaphragm.
In short, you’re f
ked. Either accept you’re going to be cutting to get to the cistern or budget for a new bathroom. If you do get another fitted bathroom, make sure it’s one where the panelling around the cistern is removable. All this over a part worth literally pennies.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news
alangla said:
I had a similar problem, if anything mine was initially better and got worse. You re not going to like the answer.
I had a hatch on the top and was able to get into the cistern and get the top off it. The cause of the slow fill was that the diaphragm on the fill valve had aged and wasn t opening fully. Replacing it got the fill rate up and solved the problem.
The getting worse bit was that soon after, the diaphragm on the bottom of the syphon failed, meaning it wouldn t flush at all. To fix that I had to get to the bottom of the cistern and that proved almost impossible. The concealment was plasterboard with small tiles, so I initially tried to get the grout out with a view to cutting it. That failed and I ended up going at it with a circular saw. There are shrapnel marks on the wall now where bits of ceramic got ejected from the saw. Managed to re-attach my new access hatch using a couple of repair plates and tile grout, so it looks ok. Also fitted a demountable syphon so next time it s 2 clips to get to the diaphragm.
In short, you re fked. Either accept you re going to be cutting to get to the cistern or budget for a new bathroom. If you do get another fitted bathroom, make sure it s one where the panelling around the cistern is removable.
All this over a part worth literally pennies.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news
Does yours have a cabinet at the bottom like mine? I'm thinking someone may have access to Cistern from thereI had a hatch on the top and was able to get into the cistern and get the top off it. The cause of the slow fill was that the diaphragm on the fill valve had aged and wasn t opening fully. Replacing it got the fill rate up and solved the problem.
The getting worse bit was that soon after, the diaphragm on the bottom of the syphon failed, meaning it wouldn t flush at all. To fix that I had to get to the bottom of the cistern and that proved almost impossible. The concealment was plasterboard with small tiles, so I initially tried to get the grout out with a view to cutting it. That failed and I ended up going at it with a circular saw. There are shrapnel marks on the wall now where bits of ceramic got ejected from the saw. Managed to re-attach my new access hatch using a couple of repair plates and tile grout, so it looks ok. Also fitted a demountable syphon so next time it s 2 clips to get to the diaphragm.
In short, you re f
ked. Either accept you re going to be cutting to get to the cistern or budget for a new bathroom. If you do get another fitted bathroom, make sure it s one where the panelling around the cistern is removable. All this over a part worth literally pennies.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news
No, it was a hatch on the top and that was it. You could get onto the top of the cistern, but there was no access anywhere else.
The flat I had previously did it right, the entire casing around the cistern was held on with wing nuts so the whole front panel came off and you could get all round the cistern, that’s how it should be done, but no-one does it.
The flat I had previously did it right, the entire casing around the cistern was held on with wing nuts so the whole front panel came off and you could get all round the cistern, that’s how it should be done, but no-one does it.
I begged and bartered with my wife not to do a concealed cistern, or worse still a wall-hung cistern in our new bathroom.
We did one in the last house refurb and it's just pain when it goes wrong. And it will go wrong.
We now have this, with valves accessible.
Sorry to hear your pain, OP, prepare to chop it open and then re-tile, at worst.
At best lift up the tiles above.
Use AI camera services (Google Lens etc) to track down new matching tiles
We did one in the last house refurb and it's just pain when it goes wrong. And it will go wrong.
We now have this, with valves accessible.
Sorry to hear your pain, OP, prepare to chop it open and then re-tile, at worst.
At best lift up the tiles above.
Use AI camera services (Google Lens etc) to track down new matching tiles
Edited by The_Doc on Sunday 3rd August 08:47
It s perfectly possible to build a concealed cistern with sufficient access - (our houses previous owners thankfully did ours with both a removable top and a fancy timber decorative front panel, which conveniently lifts off to expose the system) - the problem is that , based on years of surveying and dealing with defects in residential property, many installers are just idiots.
Edited by Cow Corner on Sunday 3rd August 09:06
The reason for that little wooden door is very obvious - someone had to break in to sort out a plumbing issue because there was no access. Sound familiar? They broke the tile in the process. You can see what's been pit back is two cut down remnants of the old tile.
I suspect in rsality you're going to have to cut/smash through the top in one way or another. It would be a good idea to think about replacing the whole top surface with something new and better looking, for instance a piece of granite made to size. Othervise a new row of plain coloured tiles. If you can salvage an unbroken tile or two in the process you could devise something much tidier than the small wooden door at the same time.
I suspect in rsality you're going to have to cut/smash through the top in one way or another. It would be a good idea to think about replacing the whole top surface with something new and better looking, for instance a piece of granite made to size. Othervise a new row of plain coloured tiles. If you can salvage an unbroken tile or two in the process you could devise something much tidier than the small wooden door at the same time.
Chumley.mouse said:
If you cant find any replacement tiles, then an option is to remove the top tiles and replace with some kind of top. An off cut of composite worktop or something like that.
In the fresh light of dawn I say rip it out and start again with something nice - and an half-inset basin!The contrivance is already a bodge, it doesn't need more bodges on top.
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